Go Back   The Ford Barn > General Discussion > Early V8 (1932-53)

Sponsored Links (Register now to hide all advertisements)

Reply
 
Thread Tools Display Modes
Old 12-02-2014, 03:37 PM   #81
Charlie Stephens
Senior Member
 
Join Date: May 2010
Location: Southern California
Posts: 5,912
Default Re: 1933 can't start after recent restart

Quote:
Originally Posted by FrankWest View Post
The cam lobe does not turn,, there is some play approx 5 degrees but otherwise it see attached firmly to the shaft... so i am surprised that iy does not rotate when the engine is hand cranked. If the cam lobe was easily turn by my hand pressure then The shaft could be broken.
Frank,

Bases on this I would think that you may have stripped the timing gear. Remove the timing pin and see if the timing gear turns when you turn the engine over by hand.

Charlie Stephens
Charlie Stephens is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 12-02-2014, 04:42 PM   #82
DavidG
Senior Member
 
DavidG's Avatar
 
Join Date: May 2010
Posts: 5,784
Default Re: 1933 can't start after recent restart

Frank,

As mentioned above, you should be able to rotate the distributor cam by about five degrees as you have done as a Model B distributor has centrifical advance, unlike a Model A distributor which has manual advance. If your distributor shaft were broken, which is highly unlikely, you would be able to turn the cam far beyond five degrees in both directions. The advice you've been given to check the fiber timing gear for sheared teeth is your next step. Replacing the timing gear on the front end of the camshaft is a lot easier on a four than a V-8, but a big project nonetheless.
DavidG is offline   Reply With Quote
Sponsored Links (Register now to hide all advertisements)
Old 12-02-2014, 04:51 PM   #83
FrankWest
Senior Member
 
FrankWest's Avatar
 
Join Date: Sep 2013
Posts: 2,574
Default Re: 1933 can't start after recent restart

Quote:
Originally Posted by Charlie Stephens View Post
Take off the distributer cap and pull the rotor up and off. The cam is held to the shaft with a screw and if you are extremely lucky it has come loose (probably not). Try to rotate the shaft by hand (it shouldn’t rotate). Next you need to remove the screw in the side of the block (sort of a stud with a screw slot on the end with a lock nut) that holds the distributer in the block. After the screw is out lift the distributer up and out of the block. If you are lucky oil and a hard pull by hand will remove it. Be VERY careful if you try to remove it with hammers, chisels and screwdrivers. The distributer bodies are often stuck in the block and they are easy to break. They make a special puller to remove the distributer (try Bratton’s, (301) 829-9880). There should be a shaft coming out of the bottom the distributer held by a pin, check to be sure it is good. You can see an illustration of the distributer at
http://www.fordgarage.com/pages/bdistributordetails.htm. If everything checks out so far remove the side cover from the block. You can turn the engine with the crank and see if the valves move (meaning the cam is turning). If the cam is not turning the timing gear is probably stripped. If the cam turns there should be a part that fits in a hole at the bottom of the oil gallery with a spring holding it in. Lift off the spring and lift it out. There is a shaft that extends through this piece that has a gear on the end that mates with the gear on the camshaft, check to be sure the gear is OK and pinned to the shaft. If you need distributer parts the best source is probably Renner’s Corner, rennerscorner.com, (734) 428-8424. Post what you find.

Charlie Stephens
I sent for the distributor puller from Brattons.
I plane to remove the distributor
But may look at the timing gear first?
Could that be stripped?
????
I talked to someone at Rennars corner, he said maybe the flange seared off the upper shaft of the distributor.
I guess the stresses of running several hours after 20 years dormant was too much
FrankWest is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 12-02-2014, 05:25 PM   #84
Charlie Stephens
Senior Member
 
Join Date: May 2010
Location: Southern California
Posts: 5,912
Default Re: 1933 can't start after recent restart

Quote:
Originally Posted by FrankWest View Post
I sent for the distributor puller from Brattons.
I plane to remove the distributor
But may look at the timing gear first?
Could that be stripped?
????
I talked to someone at Rennars corner, he said maybe the flange seared off the upper shaft of the distributor.
I guess the stresses of running several hours after 20 years dormant was too much
You can check the timing gear by removing the timing pin and sticking something into the hole to feel the gear move (or not move) as you turn the crank.

Charlie Stephens
Charlie Stephens is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 12-02-2014, 05:26 PM   #85
Bob C
Senior Member
 
Join Date: May 2010
Location: So Cal
Posts: 6,177
Default Re: 1933 can't start after recent restart

I don't see how the Model A distributor puller will work
on the B distributor. I think you will just pull the top part
of the mechanical advance off.

Bob
Bob C is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 12-02-2014, 05:50 PM   #86
Charlie Stephens
Senior Member
 
Join Date: May 2010
Location: Southern California
Posts: 5,912
Default Re: 1933 can't start after recent restart

Quote:
Originally Posted by Bob C View Post
I don't see how the Model A distributor puller will work
on the B distributor. I think you will just pull the top part
of the mechanical advance off.

Bob
Bob,

Good catch. I definitely dropped the ball on that one. I didn't realize that the shaft was the lift point on the current pullers.

Charlie Stephens
Charlie Stephens is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 12-02-2014, 06:55 PM   #87
FrankWest
Senior Member
 
FrankWest's Avatar
 
Join Date: Sep 2013
Posts: 2,574
Default Re: 1933 can't start after recent restart

Thanks for ...........?
How do you get to the timming gear?
Is it really make of fabric/cardboard......Was Henry Cheap?
FrankWest is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 12-02-2014, 06:56 PM   #88
George/Maine
Senior Member
 
George/Maine's Avatar
 
Join Date: May 2010
Location: Mid coast Maine
Posts: 1,878
Default Re: 1933 can't start after recent restart

The dist should pull one if no rust, my guess the pin on bottom of dist may have sheared. Remove what ever keeps it from turning. Look at other engine..
George/Maine is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 12-02-2014, 07:22 PM   #89
FlatheadTed
Senior Member
 
FlatheadTed's Avatar
 
Join Date: May 2010
Location: Auckland
Posts: 3,941
Send a message via AIM to FlatheadTed
Default Re: 1933 can't start after recent restart

The distributor keys into the shaft below it by a pin its a simple thing that often shears of ,You don't need a puller but there is a grub screw in the side of the head that holds it in ,loosen that off then use a bar under it and pried-d up .You can tell if the cam gear is not moving by placing the timing pin in the front cover timing hole and cranking the Motor .Ted
__________________
http://www.flatheadted.com
FlatheadTed is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 12-02-2014, 07:22 PM   #90
DavidG
Senior Member
 
DavidG's Avatar
 
Join Date: May 2010
Posts: 5,784
Default Re: 1933 can't start after recent restart

I don't think anyone said that the timing gear was made of fabric or cardboard. It was made of a fiberous plastic called Celeron and it was likely more expensive at the time than anything made of metal.

With all due respect to the suggestion that you could inspect the timing gear by removing the timing pin on the front timing gear cover, all you would ascertain is the highly remote possibility that the nut retaining the timing gear cover on the end of the camshaft was loose. A far more likely cause is sheared teeth and that can only be checked by removing the two bolts holding the side cover of the timing gear and one beneath it through the oil pan flange (see photo below - the timing gear side cover is forward of the fuel pump and shaped something like a quarter moon) and then hand cranking the engine through several revolutions of the crankshaft.
Attached Images
File Type: jpg new photo group 142.jpg (64.7 KB, 71 views)
DavidG is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 12-03-2014, 10:24 AM   #91
FrankWest
Senior Member
 
FrankWest's Avatar
 
Join Date: Sep 2013
Posts: 2,574
Default Re: 1933 can't start after recent restart

I am trying to decide what to do next.
If the pin is sheared off the distributor shaft you would think I should be able to spin the distributor cam around by hand, right?
Have the timing gears been know to fall especially after 80 years...
this strange plastic/whatever it is made of could have delaminated.
To removed the cover on the timing gear do I have to drain the oil out?
I have been making a lot of choices so far troubleshooting and it seems like everyone was Wrong!
To remove the valve cover to see if the valves are working thereby verifying that the timing gear is working means draining the engine oil, and replacing the gasket with a new one right?
At Least I am learning a lot about this car, which is what I wanted...
I anted someday to be able to keep it running on my own.... The best way to learn is to do it.
If I bought a newly restored car, it would just sit in the garage and I never would have learned anything.

Last edited by FrankWest; 12-03-2014 at 10:37 AM.
FrankWest is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 12-03-2014, 10:31 AM   #92
George/Maine
Senior Member
 
George/Maine's Avatar
 
Join Date: May 2010
Location: Mid coast Maine
Posts: 1,878
Default Re: 1933 can't start after recent restart

Its best to remove the dist and oil and set points, then check for binding shaft stuck and if you are lucky the pin has sheared on drive slot bottom of dist.
I would do the simple things first.
The has been story's of people taking the dist out and will never run again then you will have to junk it. LOL
George/Maine is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 12-03-2014, 10:46 AM   #93
Pat/Ohio
Senior Member
 
Pat/Ohio's Avatar
 
Join Date: May 2010
Location: Wilmington, OH/Lakeland, FL
Posts: 684
Default Re: 1933 can't start after recent restart

Frank,

Look at the picture that DavidG posted above, now read his post. He has clearly pointed out what you should do next. Remove the timing gear inspection cover (2 bolts shown in the picture and one under the cover that goes through the oil pan). After removing the 3 bolts and timing gear inspections cover, you can now crank the engine over a few spins and check the teeth on the timing gear. Very straight-forward procedure. Good luck!
Pat/Ohio is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 12-03-2014, 11:21 AM   #94
Bob C
Senior Member
 
Join Date: May 2010
Location: So Cal
Posts: 6,177
Default Re: 1933 can't start after recent restart

What is this pin in the drive slot? I can only think of two
pins and neither one drives anything. One holds the drive gear
sleeve and the other holds the sleeve on the distributor shaft.

Bob
Bob C is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 12-03-2014, 11:29 AM   #95
FrankWest
Senior Member
 
FrankWest's Avatar
 
Join Date: Sep 2013
Posts: 2,574
Default Re: 1933 can't start after recent restart

Quote:
Originally Posted by George/Maine View Post
Its best to remove the dist and oil and set points, then check for binding shaft stuck and if you are lucky the pin has sheared on drive slot bottom of dist.
I would do the simple things first.
The has been story's of people taking the dist out and will never run again then you will have to junk it. LOL
I can not take advice of someone who told me to out my finger in the High Voltage slot and then to junk my Car.
FrankWest is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 12-03-2014, 11:38 AM   #96
George/Maine
Senior Member
 
George/Maine's Avatar
 
Join Date: May 2010
Location: Mid coast Maine
Posts: 1,878
Default Re: 1933 can't start after recent restart

You have had people work on your cars for years and you should have learned these basics years ago.
You would be better to go to the model A section.
If the dist was locked and the shaft froze it would most likely shear the pin on the drive slot in the bottom of dist.
I,m not blowing smoke up your asxx.
George/Maine is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 12-03-2014, 12:06 PM   #97
Bob C
Senior Member
 
Join Date: May 2010
Location: So Cal
Posts: 6,177
Default Re: 1933 can't start after recent restart

There is no pin in the drive slot.

Bob
Attached Images
File Type: jpg A12178S-8029-xl.jpg (53.9 KB, 10 views)
File Type: jpg A6551-8312-xl.jpg (42.2 KB, 10 views)
Bob C is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 12-03-2014, 12:12 PM   #98
FrankWest
Senior Member
 
FrankWest's Avatar
 
Join Date: Sep 2013
Posts: 2,574
Default Re: 1933 can't start after recent restart

Quote:
Originally Posted by George/Maine View Post
You have had people work on your cars for years and you should have learned these basics years ago.
You would be better to go to the model A section.
If the dist was locked and the shaft froze it would most likely shear the pin on the drive slot in the bottom of dist.
I,m not blowing smoke up your asxx.
I was a physicist working for the aerospace industry, designed DirectTV satellites and countless other spacecraft, I had no time to work on my car.
FrankWest is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 12-03-2014, 12:27 PM   #99
FrankWest
Senior Member
 
FrankWest's Avatar
 
Join Date: Sep 2013
Posts: 2,574
Default Re: 1933 can't start after recent restart

Quote:
Originally Posted by Bob C View Post
There is no pin in the drive slot.

Bob
You are right.
The original ford shaft consisted of two sections that merely fit into each other with a slot. These two sections were just dropped into place and NOT PINNED. I was told that this peg often gets worn and no longer fits into the bottom shaft slot .Aftermarket shafts were usually made one long shaft.
FrankWest is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 12-03-2014, 01:28 PM   #100
Mart
Senior Member
 
Mart's Avatar
 
Join Date: May 2010
Location: Solihull, England.
Posts: 5,455
Default Re: 1933 can't start after recent restart

So what you're saying, Frank, it IS rocket science!

Mart.
Mart is offline   Reply With Quote
Reply

Thread Tools
Display Modes

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off

Forum Jump

Sponsored Links (Register now to hide all advertisements)


All times are GMT -5. The time now is 11:03 AM.