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Old 12-13-2014, 06:23 PM   #201
midgetracer
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Default Re: 1933 can't start after recent restart

Frank,
I would use the laminated original material cam gear. They make two qualities, masserated(cheaper) and laminated. Your old gear swelled a bit from sitting so long and may be a bit stuck on the cam, but with a bit of prying, it will come off. A new one will go on easier. be sure to line up the timing marks. Congratulations on your success so far. The worst is over.
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Old 12-13-2014, 06:59 PM   #202
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Default Re: 1933 can't start after recent restart

Quote:
Originally Posted by Mart View Post
Frank, if you can remove the old gear you can then see if the cam turns without unduly heavy loading.

You don't want to wait until you fit the new gear before finding a potential problem.

You will not harm anything by turning the cam while the crank stays still. Cam rotation will be anti-clockwise when viewed from the front.

Mart.
Thanks for your guidance
The Wrench did not arrive today, Saturday....
Usually Bratton's is pretty fast
Well, I am sure it will arrive Monday, then I will work on removing the timing gear, and then carefully checking if the cam spins..
I will not try to force anything....
Something I learned that from repairing watches.
In watchmaking, the tools are small, not only because the parts are small
but because this restricts the force you can employ. Finger pressure and hand strength only.
Mart.[/QUOTE]
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Old 12-14-2014, 04:38 PM   #203
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Default Re: 1933 can't start after recent restart

My son came over today and took this photo of My Timing gear with his cell phone camera..Ain't modern technology something. Is that packing around the Nut or just swelling of the gear?
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Old 12-14-2014, 04:48 PM   #204
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Default Re: 1933 can't start after recent restart

Changed format...Keep your fingers crossed

Transfer failed!!!
What crap!!!
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Old 12-14-2014, 05:11 PM   #205
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Default Re: 1933 can't start after recent restart

Maybe file too big, cropped picture down
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File Type: jpg Copy of 1933gggg.jpg (57.8 KB, 90 views)
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Old 12-14-2014, 06:10 PM   #206
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Default Re: 1933 can't start after recent restart

I cant see nut but that packing around the pulley is the front seal.
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Old 12-14-2014, 06:15 PM   #207
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Default Re: 1933 can't start after recent restart

I tried to include the whole NUT!
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Old 12-14-2014, 06:40 PM   #208
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Default Re: 1933 can't start after recent restart

I had the pleasure of meeting Frank West sometime back (I am the transporter that brought him the extra engine & trans from California) What a super nice guy. I have been following this thread & am glad you have located the problem. You should be commended for not getting discouraged & sticking with it. It is good to see someone who is clearly not a lifetime gearhead like some of us wanting to learn & do it himself. I am also very proud of all the guys that have tried to help him along with this project. This is the kind of situation that makes this site GREAT! Keep up the good fight, I wish I was closer so I could come over & lend a hand for an afternoon.
Merry Christmas
Bill Squires(owner)
Bill's Auto Works
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Old 12-14-2014, 11:47 PM   #209
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Default Re: 1933 can't start after recent restart

Frank,

It is a pleasure to see a timing gear nut that hasn't been all buggered up by someone using the wrong tool to loosen or tighten it.

If you mean that toothed area immediately surrounding the nut, that's the center section of the timing gear itself, not any sort of packing.
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Old 12-15-2014, 08:47 AM   #210
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Default Re: 1933 can't start after recent restart

Do you think that this Timing gear might be as old as the car? Not important, but I noticed the Ford script...Imagine lasting 80 years...
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Old 12-15-2014, 09:55 AM   #211
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Default Re: 1933 can't start after recent restart

I'd guess it probably is as old as the car Frank, there's nothing to suggest it gas been replaced. The nut being unmarked would also support the original part theory.

David, what should Frank use to undo that nut? A big open ender? Do you rely on the gear teeth to stop the cam from turning?

Mart.
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Old 12-15-2014, 09:58 AM   #212
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Default Re: 1933 can't start after recent restart

Quote:
Originally Posted by FrankWest View Post
Do you think that this Timing gear might be as old as the car? Not important, but I noticed the Ford script...Imagine lasting 80 years...
Frank, It very well could be the original timing gear. I believe if you look at around 7:30 on your timing gear you'll notice the machined "dimple" on the outer ring (near teeth). The crank gear will have one also. These are the "dimples" you'll need to align with each other when you install the new timing gear. Good luck, Pat
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Old 12-15-2014, 10:52 AM   #213
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Default Re: 1933 can't start after recent restart

I was over to Bratton's and that is some engine lots of tools.
I think frank ordered the tool to remove the nut and not a hammer and chisel.
I see they have a new hex nut to replace old one.
Now I see were the dist puller came from.
That site is enough to scare any one.
After this project newer engines will be easy.
Way to go.
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Old 12-15-2014, 10:59 AM   #214
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Default Re: 1933 can't start after recent restart

Mart,

Because the nut is slightly recessed relative to the opening in the cylinder block, an open end wrench of a length sufficient to provide the required leverage won't fit properly on the flats of the nut and the result of using one is often seen on badly damaged nuts where such a wrench was used. (Hence my comment above about the pristine condition of the nut on Frank's camshaft.) The only safe tool to use is one like that depicted in Charlie Stephens photo posted earlier in this thread. I understand that Frank has one on order and expects it arrive shortly. It is a single purpose tool, but more than worth its price in avoided frustration.

Once he has the tool in place the timing gear will rotate until its undamaged teeth engage the teeth of the gear on the crankshaft at which point he should be able to unloosen the nut. He may shear off a few more timing gear teeth in the process, but it is highly unlikely that he will shear off all of them. Additionally, if there is some seizing of the camshaft such as a rust-frozen distributor shaft, that would assist in keeping the camshaft from rotating while unloosening the nut. (Frank is lucky that he has a four in this instance as the timing gear is not pressed on, unlike the timing gear of a V-8 of that vintage.)
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Old 12-15-2014, 11:04 AM   #215
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Default Re: 1933 can't start after recent restart

Thanks David, I must have missed those pics of the special "socket". It seems obvious now.

Mart.
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Old 12-15-2014, 12:16 PM   #216
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Default Re: 1933 can't start after recent restart

It looks like stripped gear where it mesh the crank gear. Walt
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Old 12-15-2014, 04:52 PM   #217
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Default Re: 1933 can't start after recent restart

The wrench just arrived at almost 5 pm.. the mail man comes later and later each day.
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Old 12-15-2014, 05:23 PM   #218
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Default Re: 1933 can't start after recent restart

At least he/she showed up & made a delivery. I recently head where a mail person had their closet full of mail. When asked why she replied I was bored.
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Old 12-15-2014, 07:02 PM   #219
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Default Re: 1933 can't start after recent restart

Quote:
Originally Posted by DavidG View Post
Mart,

Because the nut is slightly recessed relative to the opening in the cylinder block, an open end wrench of a length sufficient to provide the required leverage won't fit properly on the flats of the nut and the result of using one is often seen on badly damaged nuts where such a wrench was used. (Hence my comment above about the pristine condition of the nut on Frank's camshaft.) The only safe tool to use is one like that depicted in Charlie Stephens photo posted earlier in this thread. I understand that Frank has one on order and expects it arrive shortly. It is a single purpose tool, but more than worth its price in avoided frustration.

Once he has the tool in place the timing gear will rotate until its undamaged teeth engage the teeth of the gear on the crankshaft at which point he should be able to unloosen the nut. He may shear off a few more timing gear teeth in the process, but it is highly unlikely that he will shear off all of them. Additionally, if there is some seizing of the camshaft such as a rust-frozen distributor shaft, that would assist in keeping the camshaft from rotating while unloosening the nut. (Frank is lucky that he has a four in this instance as the timing gear is not pressed on, unlike the timing gear of a V-8 of that vintage.)
Tried to unscrew the nut...Used 1/2 rachet with 18 inch long handle
At first timing gear turn till gears engaged main cam gear,
Then as I turned felt and heard the cylinders moving with resistance as when you try to crank start the engine. what is the proper way to prevent then engine fro turning? Put the trans in gear???
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Old 12-15-2014, 07:25 PM   #220
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Default Re: 1933 can't start after recent restart

Can try to put the transmission in gear with the parking brake set.
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