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Old 09-12-2014, 09:33 AM   #141
TomO
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Default Re: Tell me this noise isn't what I'm afraid it is.

The last time I saw a bearing break like that, the re-builder tried to file the rod cap to get the correct clearance. The egg shaped hole puts quite a train on the bearing.
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Old 09-12-2014, 11:16 AM   #142
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Default Re: Tell me this noise isn't what I'm afraid it is.

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The last time I saw a bearing break like that, the re-builder tried to file the rod cap to get the correct clearance. The egg shaped hole puts quite a train on the bearing.
Tom, It appears that OlHenry has finally seen his "rebuilder" for what he is, a "hack". Most of us knew this a long time ago. Just because a guy has been "rebuilding" engines for decades does not mean he has the necessary talents to do so correctly.
I would not be surprised if a new block, etc. will be required in this instance. I simply can't imagine there's much remaining to work with on this one.
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Old 09-12-2014, 11:53 AM   #143
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Default Re: Tell me this noise isn't what I'm afraid it is.

What could have caused this?? Would it show up in oil changes??,noise?? It seemed it was driven quite abit, did it just eat itself up from bad machine work?? Pete
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Old 09-12-2014, 12:08 PM   #144
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Default Re: Tell me this noise isn't what I'm afraid it is.

I have no complaints whatsoever about previous work on my engine. I've driven this engine 50,000 very hard miles since those bearings were installed and have no reason to believe that there was any deficiency in previous work that caused this. The builder that installed them worked 40 years as a machinist in a diesel engine shop and was meticulous about clearances. He came highly recommended from several around the country including just recently by other Fordbarners. But, alas, he seems to have finally retired as he said he was going to after my 2008 rebuild.

Things just wear out, unfortunately. It's the natural consequence and price of having as much fun as I have with my car.
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Old 09-12-2014, 12:22 PM   #145
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Default Re: Tell me this noise isn't what I'm afraid it is.

Good for you Prof! Build em, drive the h_ _ l out of em, repeat... LOL That's what Flatheads are for... At least in my book.
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Old 09-12-2014, 12:54 PM   #146
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Default Re: Tell me this noise isn't what I'm afraid it is.

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I have no complaints whatsoever about previous work on my engine. I've driven this engine 50,000 very hard miles since those bearings were installed and have no reason to believe that there was any deficiency in previous work that caused this. The builder that installed them worked 40 years as a machinist in a diesel engine shop and was meticulous about clearances. He came highly recommended from several around the country including just recently by other Fordbarners. But, alas, he seems to have finally retired as he said he was going to after my 2008 rebuild.

Things just wear out, unfortunately. It's the natural consequence and price of having as much fun as I have with my car.
Henry, I think what you do with your car is great, but there was a mistake made on your engine your damage is not normal ware. I sincerely hope your next rebuild goes much better! Gary
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Old 09-12-2014, 12:55 PM   #147
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Default Re: Tell me this noise isn't what I'm afraid it is.

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Things just wear out, unfortunately. It's the natural consequence and price of having as much fun as I have with my car.
I agree that 50,000 miles is a decent service run, but that damage is more than just normal wear. Something let go in a big way to eat up those bearings like that.
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Old 09-12-2014, 01:13 PM   #148
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Default Re: Tell me this noise isn't what I'm afraid it is.

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I have no complaints whatsoever about previous work on my engine. I've driven this engine 50,000 very hard miles since those bearings were installed and have no reason to believe that there was any deficiency in previous work that caused this. Things just wear out unfortunately. It's the natural consequence and price of having as much fun as I have with my car.
The unfortunate reality here is that your pictures don't show the results of "worn-out"...your pictures show continued, hammered-carnage. Driving up and down some dirt roads does not constitute "very hard miles" like you seem to think. The VERY HARD miles you racked-up, (and the ones that caused the "natural consequences" of such as shown in your pictures) were the miles you continued to hammer on it while ignoring the very first indications of a problem. I agree with KUBE and a couple of others...that bearing pair was wrong from the start. It's only by the grace of God that you didn't grenade the block and crank. Good luck! DD
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Old 09-12-2014, 02:21 PM   #149
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Default Re: Tell me this noise isn't what I'm afraid it is.

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I agree that 50,000 miles is a decent service run, but that damage is more than just normal wear. Something let go in a big way to eat up those bearings like that.
Could have just been a defective bearing like my piston that came apart in spite of the builder's perfect assembly. Even the best mechanics can't prevent that. I don't think every mechanical failure can be blamed on human error. It just happens. That's why I've asked about recommendations for bearings.

Even though I'm going to let Paul order the parts, he seems to be open to any input I want to give him about things even though he may not act upon it. So, I'd still like to get anyone's recommendations of brands and sources for bearings so I can tell him in case he wants to check it out.

Any suggestions?
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Old 09-12-2014, 02:24 PM   #150
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Default Re: Tell me this noise isn't what I'm afraid it is.

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Henry, I think what you do with your car is great, but there was a mistake made on your engine your damage is not normal ware. I sincerely hope your next rebuild goes much better! Gary
So do I. We'll see how it goes. Maybe better. Maybe worse. One can't tell without actually driving the engine 50,000 miles. But, oh, the fun of it.
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Old 09-12-2014, 03:02 PM   #151
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Default Re: Tell me this noise isn't what I'm afraid it is.

Lest anyone think that the "right mechanic" can get a flathead to last forever, even Ford didn't believe that. Here is the entry in the repair manual just before the instructions for removing the engine. Don't know how "used" an engine would have to be to get replaced but they weren't made to last forever.

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Old 09-12-2014, 04:50 PM   #152
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Default Re: Tell me this noise isn't what I'm afraid it is.

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Lest anyone think that the "right mechanic" can get a flathead to last forever, even Ford didn't believe that. Here is the entry in the repair manual just before the instructions for removing the engine. Don't know how "used" an engine would have to be to get replaced but they weren't made to last forever.
Is there ANYONE out there in FordBarn land with a better command of the English language than I apparently have, who can possibly better-explain that the engine in question did not WEAR OUT? Portions of THIS engine have self-destructed (more than once now)........as a result of maybe some badly-chosen parts, questionable assembly methods, lack of attention to cleanliness, or possibly a combination of all of the above. Flatheads don't just fall apart into tiny pieces at 30K or 50K miles. I hope your new guy really has the knowledge, experience and character commensurate with properly building a genuine Ford flathead engine. Once again, good luck! DD
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Old 09-12-2014, 06:13 PM   #153
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Default Re: Tell me this noise isn't what I'm afraid it is.

The weird mad-scientist side of my brain tells me the bearing failure was due to harmonics traveling through the crank from back-to-front. Old Henry drove with a bad u-joint for some time and on a downhill deceleration, that sends the stresses forward to the end of the line. Case in point: I know a guy who kept having his Toyota front pulley (harmonic type) come loose and ruin the key. No symptoms. Turns out his flywheel was loose. I've seen bearing fatigue like this isolated to one or two bearings but the cause was usually long-term detonation. Old Henry was always careful with his timing and jetting.

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Old 09-12-2014, 06:36 PM   #154
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Red face Re: Tell me this noise isn't what I'm afraid it is.

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Could have just been a defective bearing like my piston that came apart in spite of the builder's perfect assembly. Even the best mechanics can't prevent that. I don't think every mechanical failure can be blamed on human error. It just happens. That's why I've asked about recommendations for bearings.

Even though I'm going to let Paul order the parts, he seems to be open to any input I want to give him about things even though he may not act upon it. So, I'd still like to get anyone's recommendations of brands and sources for bearings so I can tell him in case he wants to check it out.

Any suggestions?
I always preferred Clevite 77 inserts which i think is now called Michigan 77. I have used them in my own engines that i knew needed the crank turned to be perfect and i ran them till the rings were wore out, and they never came apart. I also preferred Hsting steel rings.
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Old 09-12-2014, 09:41 PM   #155
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Default Re: Tell me this noise isn't what I'm afraid it is.

As far as bearings go, I'd try to find some old Ford cadmium-silver bearings.
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Old 09-12-2014, 10:31 PM   #156
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Default Re: Tell me this noise isn't what I'm afraid it is.

Finally, some helpful parts recommendations.

That's all I was really looking for.

I'll pass those on to Paul in case he hasn't heard about them.
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Old 09-13-2014, 12:42 AM   #157
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Default Re: Tell me this noise isn't what I'm afraid it is.

I Agree something caused this engine to disintegrate its not Worn out in any way.


This engine needs to come completely apart,remove the cam bearings and front oil plug. And sent of to be cleaned properly.
The clean out all oil channels.
The Crank oil channels need to be cleaned to and the oilpump replaced, or disassembled and cleaned.
One flake, is all its need to be in this situation again.
And triple check the crank roundness and dimensions, same goes with the rods

The engine must be so clean so You should be able to eat of it before you assemble it.

Regarding the clutch, it looks that it could be badly adjusted so it slipped during normal driving, or that the driver rested his foot on the clutch pedal causing the clutch to slip.
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Old 09-13-2014, 07:20 AM   #158
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Default Re: Tell me this noise isn't what I'm afraid it is.

I would talk to the people who are going to grind the crank what they prefer you use for bearings. I would consider having the connecting rods re-sized if it was my engine.
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Old 09-13-2014, 07:38 AM   #159
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Default Re: Tell me this noise isn't what I'm afraid it is.

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I would talk to the people who are going to grind the crank what they prefer you use for bearings. I would consider having the connecting rods re-sized if it was my engine.
Consider? The way the rods were obviously hammering, it would not be a "consideration". At this point, it is a MUST.
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Old 09-13-2014, 08:15 AM   #160
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Default Re: Tell me this noise isn't what I'm afraid it is.

I think that any short cuts you may consider, will put you in the same shape you are now in, with more money wasted. I hate to see this considering the way you like to drive the old girl.
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