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Old 07-14-2014, 07:11 AM   #1
Bruce in southern OH
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Default Yes, they are still out there NUMBER 2

Drug another Car out of storage (barn) that was parked in 1982, picked up a 1939 Sedan Lincoln Zephyr. Ceiling was starting to fall down and rock wool insulation and pieces of sheet rock had fallen on top of car. All the tires were flat, I took air compressor and aired up. Took four of us to roll car ( very heavy compared to early V8's and model A's ) Pulled up in trailer with winch and home we came, unloaded Saturday evening and had several people came over and inspected old car. Yesterday afternoon I removed plugs and put automatic transmission fluid in all cylinders ( 12 ) and let set until late evening. My son and I went to garage and I placed car in 2nd gear and we rocked car, got the engine to turn over. I also drained oil and put a gallon of diesel in car and will drain out today. Going to remove carb and distributor and clean/inspect/lube. Still have not got trunk open, no key, locksmith maybe today, hope full of 39 silver dollars!!!! Will go for a start later this week.
.

.

.
home in OHIO
.

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Original heads and have additional intake, several carbs came with car
.

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Have air filter, fender skirts, extra wheel drum, and coil.
.
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Old 07-14-2014, 07:24 AM   #2
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Great Find!!!!!!!
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Old 07-14-2014, 07:31 AM   #3
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Default Re: Yes, they are still out there NUMBER 2

Great find. How much did it set you back?
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Old 07-14-2014, 07:38 AM   #4
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Default Re: Yes, they are still out there NUMBER 2

Looks like a nice solid car..keep us posted on the start up.
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Old 07-14-2014, 08:33 AM   #5
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Default Re: Yes, they are still out there NUMBER 2

WOW, what a find! Looks great. Keep us posted on your progress...
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Old 07-14-2014, 08:35 AM   #6
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Default Re: Yes, they are still out there NUMBER 2

awesome find. Congratulations.
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Old 07-14-2014, 09:01 AM   #7
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Default Re: Yes, they are still out there NUMBER 2

Good you found it when you did. Not much damage.
Will make a great driver.
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Old 07-14-2014, 09:02 AM   #8
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Default Re: Yes, they are still out there NUMBER 2

The next time you go barn shopping,take me with you. Very nice!
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Old 07-14-2014, 09:21 AM   #9
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Default Re: Yes, they are still out there NUMBER 2

Excellent find! I hope you and your son have a great time with this one. Congrats
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Old 07-14-2014, 09:27 AM   #10
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Default Re: Yes, they are still out there NUMBER 2

I hope you can see that we are all green with envy. A Zephyr is a dream find for me. A couple ideally, LOL!
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Old 07-14-2014, 09:33 AM   #11
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Default Re: Yes, they are still out there NUMBER 2

Bruce,
You keep coming up with some very fine cars!!!
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Old 07-14-2014, 09:54 AM   #12
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Default Re: Yes, they are still out there NUMBER 2

Bruce, that is outstanding!!!
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Old 07-14-2014, 10:04 AM   #13
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Default Re: Yes, they are still out there NUMBER 2

Nice find. Would like to see more photos once you wash it.
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Old 07-14-2014, 01:39 PM   #14
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Default Re: Yes, they are still out there NUMBER 2

BRUCE ....................
You didn't stage (fake) that did you ?
Nice find.
Congratulations !
MIKE (mikeburch)
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Old 07-14-2014, 02:46 PM   #15
Bruce in southern OH
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Default Re: Yes, they are still out there NUMBER 2

MIKE, no afraid not, still in garage unwashed today, have not cleaned up but will tomorrow and wipe down with some Gibbs oil if I can find a can I had. I need to find some of those old plastic seat covers that were period correct. ( like your grandmaw had on her couch ) I am going to get running first. I did remove the carburetor today and it has the Zephyr symbol on bowl. Also removed the coil and found that one of the carbon tips is missing, do not know if it fell off as I gentle lifted off distributor or it went bad over the years. The distributor caps are stuck in the sides of distributor, now I will have to remove generator and spark plug looms to get everything out together so I can tap with wood to un stick. Then I will have to sand down caps so they will go back together. (old material swells) Need to have carb rebuild ( rubber products ), fuel pump for new fuel, and coil. Need suggestions for all three again, bubba? Henry? who is still out there? I am working now on trying to get plug out of gas tank, looks like I might have to fill with water and drill to remove plug from underneath. Is there a plate in floor of trunk for tank sending unit? Locksmith did not come today, need trunk open! Also, intake gasket, after I take spark plug looms off I am going to take intake off and look at valley and oil up everything before I start. Will look at brake master cylinder soon. thanks Bruce
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Old 07-14-2014, 02:54 PM   #16
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Default Re: Yes, they are still out there NUMBER 2

Bruce, you've got your fun cut out for you. I would suggest the following, for the carb, Charlie NY, for the distributor, Bubba's and for the coil and water pumps, Skip Haney. You should also check out www.LZOC.org, the Lincoln Zephyr Owners Club. They have an excellent Vender's list for parts & services related to Lincoln Zephyrs. Good luck on an excellent project. Vic
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Old 07-14-2014, 03:38 PM   #17
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Default Re: Yes, they are still out there NUMBER 2

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Originally Posted by Fibber Mcgee View Post
Great find. How much did it set you back?
That's like asking a lady how much she weighs, or how old she is
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Old 07-14-2014, 03:52 PM   #18
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That car looks practically new Bruce! Fabulous.
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Old 07-14-2014, 07:38 PM   #19
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Very well done, congratulations
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Old 07-14-2014, 11:26 PM   #20
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Default Re: Yes, they are still out there NUMBER 2

Quote:
Originally Posted by Mike B View Post
That's like asking a lady how much she weighs, or how old she is
I've done that as well.
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Old 07-15-2014, 01:22 AM   #21
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Default Re: Yes, they are still out there NUMBER 2

There was what looked like a pretty nice Zephyr sold on eBay recently for $16K. Very reasonable, in my uneducated opinion.
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Old 07-15-2014, 04:55 AM   #22
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Default Re: Yes, they are still out there NUMBER 2

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That's like asking a lady how much she weighs, or how old she is
Amen !
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Old 07-15-2014, 07:38 AM   #23
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What's so taboo about asking what someone paid for something? I'd tell if anyone asked what I paid for mine.I was curious what a Zephyr in that shape goes for. Thanks Mhsprecher.
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Old 07-15-2014, 11:02 AM   #24
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What's so taboo about asking what someone paid for something? I'd tell if anyone asked what I paid for mine.I was curious what a Zephyr in that shape goes for. Thanks Mhsprecher.
-----------------------------------------------------------------------




Here's a link to a '40 thats been advertized
on the HAMB for about 6 weeks.........

http://www.jalopyjournal.com/forum/t...-sedan.926804/










.
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Old 07-15-2014, 02:41 PM   #25
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Default Re: Yes, they are still out there NUMBER 2

Thanks Lanny. Thats why I asked. I thought a Zephyr would cost more than that. Now days it all about the money or lack there of.
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Old 07-15-2014, 02:51 PM   #26
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Default Re: Yes, they are still out there NUMBER 2

Hey Fibber, if you want to get a better idea of what Lincoln Zephyr's are selling for, check out www.lzoc.org. Keep in mind that (as with most cars) ForDor Sedans bring the least money. Where Zephyr's are concerned, because they could be considered low production vehicles, even ForDor Sedans will fetch a nice price.
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Old 07-15-2014, 02:59 PM   #27
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Default Re: Yes, they are still out there NUMBER 2

NOT mine, but this decent looking, roadworthy '37 Zep has been for sale in Michigan for several months at $23K. Click the link! DD



http://www.antiquecar.com/category/F...hyr-Sedan.html
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Old 07-15-2014, 03:15 PM   #28
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Default Re: Yes, they are still out there NUMBER 2

Quote:
Originally Posted by Fibber Mcgee View Post
I've done that as well.
And lived to tell about it?

Wow that is quite a retrieval. Good to see some of that old iron getting back into circulation.

There was a fella with one around here a year or so ago, he made a few small shows. It was for sale, if memory serves, he was asking $30K for it but I can't remember what year it was, I'm thinking '39. I haven't seen it yet this year.

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Old 07-15-2014, 03:30 PM   #29
Bruce in southern OH
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Any idea where to get key or code to find a trunk key, had lock smith here today and could not pick and turn lock handle. I found that on a 40 Ford coupe the key turns clockwise and the handle counter-clockwise. Took back seat out and found a steel X-brace with card board. There is no way to reach anything if I cut out one space in card board. Let me know if you know of a solution, thanks Bruce
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Old 07-15-2014, 04:55 PM   #30
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Bruce, start up a new post...there is at least one FordBarn member who is a locksmith, and may be able to help...he may not read all the threads, but asking specifically for locksmithing...might catch his (or other who know him) eye.
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Old 07-15-2014, 08:41 PM   #31
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Mike B, I will do that, first I PM'ed the 32Phil at Early Ford locks for information.
(Phil, I just drug in a 1939 Lincoln Zephyr Fordor, I have the ignition key which fits the ignition and passenger side door, PROBLEM is I did not get a trunk Key, any information I can get to you that would allow you to make a key to unlock trunk???? thanks Bruce
email-bjoh1938@aol.com)
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Old 07-16-2014, 09:59 AM   #32
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Bruce. you may find the needed key information by calling the Benson Ford Research Center in Dearborn, Michigan at 313-976-6070. They have many prewar Lincoln production record cards and might still have your car on file. The production record card has the key numbers for the ignition and trunk keys plus info on your car the day it was made in 1939. The center will send you a sheet outlining original paint, interior, etc. Cost is I believe $20.00. Well worth the cost. The LZOC website has info on the service also. Click on the "car labeled FAQ" on their masthead. Well worth joining their club also which is for the Lincoln V-12's from 1936 thru 1948. Good luck Zephyring.
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Old 07-16-2014, 11:32 AM   #33
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Nice find Bruce!
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Old 07-16-2014, 11:53 AM   #34
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I just want to see Bruce's little black book and the barn finds he's passing on.. No low ball stuff for him...What a great find.
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Old 07-16-2014, 03:32 PM   #35
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Default Re: Yes, they are still out there NUMBER 2

Flex37 (Jonathan) owner said that in 1982 the 7:00 X 16 Coker tires were new! I will look for the dot number and check, car was in a totally dark stall, no windows. Want to see how they drive in a month or so after I go through engine. ( fuel pump, carb, distributor, water pumps, spark plug wires, coil, gas tank and most important BRAKES )

Next, just this week I installed the 34 wood grain work you did at Honest Charley's. ( had to wait for the new chrome windshield) I have been jumping between work, 39 I brought home Saturday and the 34.

itsa52, have a big list, big black book, need funds, if will advance me some green backs, I will post more cars, thanks
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Old 07-16-2014, 03:49 PM   #36
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WOW, very cool Bruce, that V12 looks sweet too. Your a lucky man striking gold several times I believe now!! Enjoy and post pic's when she's all pretty and waxed up. Not that it ain't pretty dam nice now.
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Old 07-16-2014, 08:16 PM   #37
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that blue tag is antique Pennsylvania, is it not? and you found it in cal.?
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Old 07-16-2014, 08:29 PM   #38
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Don't know where California came from, I live in OHIO, picked up in Pennsylvania? Now I did get a PM from ( fordbarn locksmith ) Phil said to remove glove box lock and it should be same as trunk, I will send him information and cut a key for me to try to unlock trunk, also will contact the other leads I received. Tomorrow fuel pump off and take apart and place new parts in pump, also need the flex gas line, lots to do.
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Old 07-16-2014, 08:30 PM   #39
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Bruce in southern OH View Post
Mike B, I will do that, first I PM'ed the 32Phil at Early Ford locks for information.
(Phil, I just drug in a 1939 Lincoln Zephyr Fordor, I have the ignition key which fits the ignition and passenger side door, PROBLEM is I did not get a trunk Key, any information I can get to you that would allow you to make a key to unlock trunk???? thanks Bruce
email-bjoh1938@aol.com)
Edit: duplicate post
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Old 07-16-2014, 08:36 PM   #40
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One more possible option. Ford products usually matched the glove box lock to the trunk lock. If your glovebox is in the unlocked position, the lock assembly can be removed and dis-assembled. The key code is stamped on the cylinder. I and others on the Ford Barn can then cut you a key to code. It would very likely work in the trunk handle.
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Old 07-16-2014, 08:48 PM   #41
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yes, sorry about not seeing ohio. thinking proctervill. ca.
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Old 07-17-2014, 06:25 PM   #42
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Sent 32Phil my glove box lock number, he is going to cut a key, should work in trumk, found the registration cards in drivers side glove box, same family has owned car sense new, also one tag from Columbia overdrive and 4 coins ( 35 nickel, and four Lincoln head pennies, 40,45, 46,48) Get trunk open and find all the bags of silver coins. I will be in the black!!!
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Old 07-17-2014, 08:09 PM   #43
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Rode in a sedan just like this one when I was about 13 years old. My dad was trying it out and I so wanted him to buy it. I think the V-12 scared him out of the deal. Still remember peeking out the back window in that big old Zephyr sixty two years ago like it was yesterday. Good luck with your project.
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Old 07-17-2014, 09:22 PM   #44
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Bruce,
You lucky dog! What a find! Looks like it is in good shape, good enough to drive as is. Congratulations!

Hope you can bring it to Gallipolis. But wait, I haven't seen the `34 yet! Bring'em both!

Bud
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Old 07-19-2014, 02:13 PM   #45
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Bruce you can get some good tips on restoring this car at Steve's Auto Restorations he is doing a 4 door as I write this. I was glad you decided to go with the Big Block Chevy and Auto trans. I would limit the top chop to not more then 3 inches.
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Old 07-19-2014, 02:16 PM   #46
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THANKS, that is like being put in jail or holding cell with 10 guys and as you walk away saying, "you should not have molested the little baby", thanks Mabe!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

( railroad is calling you )
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Old 07-21-2014, 06:26 AM   #47
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Replaced oil, installed battery, re-installed the fuel pump ( works fine ) and tested carburetor with gas and sprays gas when throttle is moved. Don P. replaced the points with nos points I had and checked out on his Sun Machine and my Allen machine. Checked the condensers and showed good. I will go down to Dons and we are thinking of using old spark plug wires to start. Caps for distributor will have to be sanded to go back in distributor. Small amount of coil ignition wiring will have to be replaced because insulation is bad. Lots of little things to get done before Blast Off! I did hook up battery yesterday and turned motor with starter, starter worked good. Will have to check out the water and radiator before I go for start. Going to use the little plastic gas tank I have until I get the trunk key to look in trunk for access to top of gas tank through sending unit hole.
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Old 07-21-2014, 02:41 PM   #48
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jGreat find, Bruce.

Looking over the engine picture, there is what appears to be a vacuum line running down over the drivers side cylinder head and also a bowden/push-pull cable running horizontally along the drivers side firewall. They both look like parts of a Columbia two-speed setup. The vacuum line would come off the top of the intake manifold behind the carb and down to the Columbia two-port valve mounted on the frame or on the steering box. The push-pull dashboard knob would pull the lever on the speedo gear changer mounted horizontally on the firewall about where that cable is living now.

Have you looked at the rear axle? Columbia under there?
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Old 07-21-2014, 04:08 PM   #49
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Highboy34, Yes, the Columbia is under there, I have not touched anything with the Columbia, the hose/tubing does go down to steering box. Is there anything I can do to the controls while I wait on engine parts. Thanks for reply and information
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Old 07-31-2014, 09:20 PM   #50
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Default Re: Yes, they are still out there NUMBER 2

Working past couple of weeks, today got to go to Don P.'s and see his work, he has distributor for V12 working perfect. We also installed the twelve new spark plug wires in looms and installed wires in position in caps. Don P. had to cut two cap gaskets that I was short. The gasket cutter he has is near perfect, have to find one for my future projects. I will install the distributor on car, then coil, new wired looms on engine, generator, fan belt, small about of wiring to coils, and two wires to generator, hook up battery, install carburetor, vacuum lines, install spark plugs and a temporary gas tank!!! If I get everything together I will call Don and go for a start after 30 plus years.
.
Wires from Boos
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Gasket cutter
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Holding finger after letting small amount of Blood out, ouch!!!!!

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Thanks Don!!!!!!!!!!!!
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Old 07-31-2014, 10:11 PM   #51
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Default Re: Yes, they are still out there NUMBER 2

Quote:
Originally Posted by Lanny View Post
-----------------------------------------------------------------------




Here's a link to a '40 thats been advertized
on the HAMB for about 6 weeks.........

http://www.jalopyjournal.com/forum/t...-sedan.926804/









.
Just checked out that Zepher and he stripped the engine, front axle and rear brakes. That car went from a nice restore to a parts car. Dummy!
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Old 08-01-2014, 09:04 AM   #52
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Default Re: Yes, they are still out there NUMBER 2

Lookin' good Bruce, hopefully she'll fire right up for you.
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Old 08-01-2014, 08:18 PM   #53
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Vic/everyone, got car running and runs very good, NOW THE PROBLEM!! Now I know why the transmission floor pans are removed, the car will not go in gear. I am trying to decide whether to pull rear end and clean up or motor(motor clean). Vic your thread is so long to go through, thought that you and gang had pulled transmission in past. What direction did you go?
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First start up after a long sleep!
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Old 08-01-2014, 08:38 PM   #54
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Bruce, we did pull the transmission out of the Zephyr, not once but twice (Bad Chinese parts the first rebuild). I would suggest that you pull the rear back to get the transmission out. The transmission has to be removed from the inside of the car so pulling the rear back is (at least it was for us) the easiest way to get the job done. Have fun with it.
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Old 08-02-2014, 11:23 AM   #55
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Default Re: Yes, they are still out there NUMBER 2

A couple of Zephyr thoughts: Because the Columbia takes vacuum directly from the intake manifold, be sure the lines are good throughout or it will suck air and give you a leanness problem.

These engines had poor crankcase ventilation and condensation readily built up in engines that were regularly run to less than full hot condition, i.e. short distances on/off, etc. On
my 37, I noticed a little pimple on the outside of the intake riser. I picked at it and found a corrosion hole in the intake runner through from the runner bottom down into the lifter valley in the block. Condensation had completely corroded it away. We cut away the side of the intake riser and patched in material there and on the bottom of the manifold. no problems since. You may wish to check your runners carefully to be sure they are good.

Good luck with your Zephyr project. Beautiful cars.
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Old 08-02-2014, 11:52 AM   #56
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Default Re: Yes, they are still out there NUMBER 2

Be more than happy to do the distributor, send coil to Skip and we can get them done......
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Old 08-02-2014, 04:12 PM   #57
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I keep checking in to see if Bruce found out what was in the trunk!
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Old 08-02-2014, 06:05 PM   #58
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Bubbas, thanks, have the distributor taken care of, used NOS points we have picked up over the years and replaced, condensers both tested fine, (set up on Sun and Allen machine and manual fixture by Don P. ) have a 1 nos rotor, but old one was fine. FordBarn always to the rescue. The engine did not turn over five or six times and BURST to LIFE. Ignition, Ignition, Ignition!!! I am boxing up 2nd spare coil and will send to Skip, I have talked to him and got price plus shipping, will use for spare or change out with coil on engine and save for spare.
Mike you are not the only one to ask about trunk, Mabe P. calls about every other day and ask what I am hiding from him, he knows I found Hoffa's body or a couple bags of Philly bank money. ( only a 35 nickel and four Lincoln head pennies ) Phil 32, is making keys but I have not received anything yet, got a PM from him and was told he would try again on Monday to make key. Need a FX314 if anyone has one????? When I open trunk I will video the occasion and post. Making a list now of taking the rear end out of Old Zephyr so I can pull transmission and change/examine the clutch/disc, etc. I will clean up everything while out, free up emergency brake cables. I will have to look up disc size but I think it will be a 9" clutch and disc #7550 in V8 books list 9", but think 7550 number is used for all disc, need a letter or additional number if 11" etc., any info is always appreciated, thanks everyone for the help, BJ

Last edited by Bruce in southern OH; 08-02-2014 at 06:14 PM. Reason: Change color of name to make clear
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Old 08-03-2014, 08:42 PM   #59
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Default Re: Yes, they are still out there NUMBER 2

I worked this afternoon on clutch to see if any addition adjustment was present. If I adjusted pedal so that I got max travel ( clutch Arm touching back of bell housing ) the pressure plate throw out bearing was running all the time, still as I did this with car running it would not release. (could not place in gear) Don P. did some research and found lots of threads on AACA and others that talked about long finger pressure plates, and extra thick clutch disc. Without the correct parts you will start out with max rod adjustment and very little wear time and incorrect free pedal travel. This is what the problem is and was for previous owner, explains why the transmission cover was off and why car was parked. I am still trying to contact previous owner for his story. Any info and parts location appreciated, some said that NAA tractor disc and presure plates work, let me know,
info taken by 9 year old post on AACA site:
Re: H-V-12 Clutch plate
Hey JB make sure you have the "LONG ONE" pressure
plate [10 inch] with the adjustable fingers.
Then get a 10 inch clutch disc.they used on pick ups
which have thicker facings.
Also some ford tractor disc's have thicker clutch
facings like the 53 Jubilee.
The Basic pressure plate [Long One semi centrifical]
used on all H 12's are hard to find
but,they were also used on Ford tractors.
One other item you may need to measure your
flywheel thickness and see if has been re surfaced
too many times, this would also cause the length
of your adjusting rod to change.

Last edited by Bruce in southern OH; 08-03-2014 at 09:05 PM. Reason: add correct words
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Old 08-04-2014, 06:15 AM   #60
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Default Re: Yes, they are still out there NUMBER 2

Got some info from Vic,
Hi Bruce,

We replaced the clutch and pressure plate, etc. in the '39 LZ two years ago. The clutch & pressure plate are the same as the ones that go into the '51 F-1 (as I recall) I think I got them from Joblot.

Last edited by Bruce in southern OH; 08-04-2014 at 06:15 AM. Reason: spelling
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Old 08-04-2014, 06:21 AM   #61
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Default Re: Yes, they are still out there NUMBER 2

It is possible the clutch plate is stuck to either the pressure plate or the flywheel and not releasing, since the car sat for a long time. There are several threads here about freeing the clutch plate without removing the transmission. On Ford cars all three fingers of the PP have weights that act to exert more force against the clutch when the engine RPM exceeds about 2,000, to minimize any slipping. All three fingers have adjustment screws at the throw out ends of the fingers for adjustment so they all act at the same time. I would GUESS the Lincolns also had the weights and screws. I do not believe tractor PP's have the weights and may be without the adjustment screws.
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Old 08-04-2014, 06:39 AM   #62
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Terry, I thought the same thing, might take car out in field, place in gear and push start and drive around and see if pulling small grade or loping the car would free it up. (have rocked the car back and forth to try free up ) I do not think that this is the problem because the adjustment leakage is pass the max point now and the transmission floor covers were removed when I got car. I think they had a problem before. The 51 pickup parts would have all the weights, will see if old owner can shed some light, as always thanks for reply, value your thoughts and knowledge.
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Old 08-07-2014, 06:16 AM   #63
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Default Re: Yes, they are still out there NUMBER 2

Worked on brakes yesterday, got all the bleeding screws loose, pumped brake pedal and moved fluid through the lines on a one by one basis. Went back to garage and thought I would press the pedal with foot to see how pedal felt, rock hard pedal, pushed a little harder and pedal did move, got out of car to start another project on car and saw a squirt of fluid on floor, found front brake hose blown out. Have to now order the two front brake hoses, going to take front wheels off today and inspect the brakes and repack the bearings. QUESTION, are all the front brake hoses the same if the number is the same in Ford vendors as in the Lincoln vendors catalogs????? Back to garage, still no movement with Clutch, did talk to previous owner and he cannot remember why his brother had the floor pans out. ALSO, STILL WAITING ON TRUNK KEY!!! NEED IN TRUNK TO SEE WHAT TREASURE IS WAITING, THANKS EVERYONE
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Old 08-07-2014, 06:37 AM   #64
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Default Re: Yes, they are still out there NUMBER 2

Make sure the master cylinder piston can return all the way and the actuating rod (adjustment ) is not prevent it's return. With the brake pedal back to it's stop there has to be a slight bit of clearance between MC piston and rod. Make sure the brake pedal return spring takes the pedal to it's stop.
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Old 08-07-2014, 08:37 PM   #65
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Default Re: Yes, they are still out there NUMBER 2

Bruce
I got the brake hoses for my 41 Ford Deluxe from Napa.
#6100 rear (1)
#7600 front (2)
Possibly same as yours.
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Old 08-07-2014, 09:15 PM   #66
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Spent 1 hour and 15 minutes at NAPA today for nothing, I will return after you gave me this information and ask, thank you, will let you know what I find out.
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Working on brakes today
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Old 08-08-2014, 04:18 PM   #67
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Bruce, it takes three of the 7600 NAPA hoses for my car, I had to cut one front passenger side fitting off above the nut, frozen in hose fitting, Question is can I flare the short tubing and install a new 7/16" nut. Let me know what everyone thinks, do not want to replace the old line across engine compartment if you have a solution, thanks
Do you have a good number for the grease seals, what to pack front inside bearing and will have to remove old seals, appreciate the info!!
.
line cut above line nut
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Old 08-08-2014, 04:29 PM   #68
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Default Re: Yes, they are still out there NUMBER 2

Is that curved piece of tubing copper? NOT trying to stir-up any poo here. That's a weird-looking fitting for a brake line. DD
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Old 08-08-2014, 07:32 PM   #69
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Default Re: Yes, they are still out there NUMBER 2

It is a painted steel 1/4" line with 7/16" brass fitting screwed into a brass hose crimped end. I cut rotted rubber hose off of metal end of hose end so I could get a 6 sided socket on the 5/8" hose side. I have removed the horse shoe clip that secures line to car.
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Old 08-09-2014, 06:15 AM   #70
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Green Bible????? cmbrucew and countless others have helped me find parts for the Lincoln that are across the counter items and local. Radiator hose 1 3/4" found at NAPA for lower engine and sold by the foot. #7600 brake hoses for front end and swing brake hose in rear of car and the list I am sure will go on. My Question is there a book/computer web site that shows the interchange parts like Green Bible that includes the Lincoln?? Asked Walt about the one he has for sale here on barn and it does not, also best way to get bearings and seals. Went to Applied Technologies with my front 39 "clean" drum to match up drum seals and bearings, you would have thought I brought in a part from outer space. Told they have nothing, then asked on Ford barn and looked on E-bay, one answer on fordbarn quickly and ebay seller had a part number for Lincoln and other Ford cars, just looking for a way to match up Ford parts in supplier catalogs with Lincoln part numbers. Same number on parts like A-7550, B-7550, 18-7550, 48-7550 and so on. Thanks and let me know what you have found,
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Old 08-10-2014, 11:50 AM   #71
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Default Re: Yes, they are still out there NUMBER 2

Purchased a book off ebay: 1938 1939 1940 1941 Ford Lincoln V8 V12 Flathead Mechanical Service Bulletins
I also talked to another man about brake line repair, going to purchase a short section of brake line with flare on it with nut, next bend to fit and connect in a straight section in engine compartment with a compression coupling, this will work for me, thanks
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Old 08-10-2014, 12:38 PM   #72
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Default Re: Yes, they are still out there NUMBER 2

Bruce
Compression fittings are a no-no for brake lines. Reverse flare only for safety reasons.

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Old 08-10-2014, 02:06 PM   #73
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Default Re: Yes, they are still out there NUMBER 2

Regarding the intake gasket, if you can't get it from Best Gasket, you might try Olson Gasket in Port Orchard, Washington. 360-871-1207 They stock all sorts of obsolete gaskets as well as make gaskets.
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Old 08-10-2014, 05:33 PM   #74
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Bruce, you need to call Earle Brown of the LZOC club. Check LZOC website for his phone and copy of his catalog. One of the best for Lincoln mechanical stuff. Almost 40 years in Lincoln mechanical parts. Not too far from you...in Pittsburg. I don't know of any interchange catalog between Lincoln and Ford, Our green bible is the Lincoln Master Parts catalog.
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Old 08-10-2014, 06:56 PM   #75
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Default Re: Yes, they are still out there NUMBER 2

Quote:
Originally Posted by Bruce in southern OH View Post
Green Bible????? cmbrucew and countless others have helped me find parts for the Lincoln that are across the counter items and local. Radiator hose 1 3/4" found at NAPA for lower engine and sold by the foot. #7600 brake hoses for front end and swing brake hose in rear of car and the list I am sure will go on. My Question is there a book/computer web site that shows the interchange parts like Green Bible that includes the Lincoln?? Asked Walt about the one he has for sale here on barn and it does not, also best way to get bearings and seals. Went to Applied Technologies with my front 39 "clean" drum to match up drum seals and bearings, you would have thought I brought in a part from outer space. Told they have nothing, then asked on Ford barn and looked on E-bay, one answer on fordbarn quickly and ebay seller had a part number for Lincoln and other Ford cars, just looking for a way to match up Ford parts in supplier catalogs with Lincoln part numbers. Same number on parts like A-7550, B-7550, 18-7550, 48-7550 and so on. Thanks and let me know what you have found,
Hey Bruce, Thats a very nice looking Zephyr you have there. I see it has an accessory center front bumper guard. I also see it has a Hot Air heater but the metal elbow is missing ,do you have it? They are very hard to come byif you dont but one can be made from a piece of exhaust pipe.I read that it has a Columbia Two speed,does the speedometer cable come frome the pass side axle housing at the rear wheel? I dont see a speedometer adapter on the firewall is why I ask. If it comes from the rear wheel its a pretty sure bet it was factory installed. My advise would be not to shift that columbia untill you have time to go through rebuilding it. It has some cork pads inside the synchro clutch and they tend to glue themselves to the inside of the drum . If they are stuck it could rip the sun gear to pieces.There is actually not very much interchange between the Lincoln and Ford. Luckly the front grease seals are same as 35-48 Fords and rear grease seals are same as Ford 38-48 and so are the front wheel bearings,inner and outer same as 28-48 Fords. The 39 Lincoln has the same drag link as 35-40 Ford along with the tie rod ends. The wishbone rubber ball is 39 Mercury and so is the cap. The master cylinder is same as Ford. There are some large rubber isolators,2 in the front crossmember and 2 in the rear crossmember that the suspension mounts to. Check them out for dry rot. If they are bad there is really nothing holding the front and rear suspension in the car except just the weight of the car. Rebuilt ones are available. Im definatly no expert on the 39 Zephyr but I have built two of them and now working on the third one so let me know if I can be of any help.
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Old 08-10-2014, 07:33 PM   #76
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Great to hear from you Ken, Have Hot Air heater parts to fill a box, several fittings and blower motors, will take photos and post tomorrow. #2 Columbia Two speed, yes it does come from the passenger side axle housing at rear wheel. Ken the speedometer cable was not hooked up on drive shaft, I will look in morning also and take a couple photos and post. Ken, do you think it is safe to drive car using the drive line as a means to free up stuck clutch!? My plan was to fix brakes and then take car out in my hay field and coast start car in gear and drive around with clutch pedal depressed, slow and fast and apply brakes and drive up small grades with clutch pedal down all the time? How would I know if Columbia is in a safe mode position? I will order bearings and seals tomorrow, only reason for bearings/seals is while I am in location I do not want to return, pack bearings and new seals. Have to be very old with CR labels and Ford script bearings? Keep info coming, I will use a vacuum brake pump machine tomorrow to flush lines with new DOT 3 brake fluid. Next leave adjustment screw loose on brakes, install front drums loose and bleed system of air. Move to rear drums and remove, same process, after all 4 are bled I will exercise the brake pedal and see if wheel cylinders operate. So much to do, little at a time. I will also check those rubber bumpers, thanks
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Old 08-10-2014, 08:14 PM   #77
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Bruce ,the columbia is probably in std drive,cable pushed in. Im just saying that I would be a little hesitant to shift it from whatever position its in . When you get the clutch working properly you might try shifting it with the rear of the car sitting on some jackstands. As far as the clutch goes, I have had luck unsticking clutches by driving it with the pedal depressed but like you said,do it in a field where there is no traffic. I have bought many items from Alan Whelihan in MD.. Earle Brown is good for mechanical items. I you plan to rewire I would get it from Narrangansett, Ive rewired 3 Lincolns using their wiring and it fits nice. Im in the process of installing those rubber isolators in my frame,if I get home from work on time tomorrow I will post some pictures of them and where they are.
Here is a photo of a Zephyr my friend bought a couple years back from a long storage.
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Old 08-10-2014, 08:31 PM   #78
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Thanks, look forward to photos, Bruce
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Old 08-11-2014, 04:55 PM   #79
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Ken/everyone the speedometer cable runs from the passenger side rear housing, along frame rail, out in fender well for about a foot and into the inside of car and is connected to the back of big speedometer. I thought I saw the cable going to the drive shaft, but it was the emergency brake cable going in that direction. Now what would be missing from the Columbia system? The dash going to floor and transmission pans were removed when I got car. ( parts are with the car ) Several wires and small metal clad cables/wires disconnected on back of speedometer, what would these have gone to??? I did remove the front drum grease seals this evening, will order front and rear drum seals tomorrow, bearings do say Ford B-1201 and seem to be in very good condition, I will repack them and continue to work on brakes.
.
cable from Columbia rear housing
.


.
Ken, is this the front body mount you spoke of????
.
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Old 08-11-2014, 05:57 PM   #80
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Bruce, they are called "frame insulators." Lincoln part number 96H 5044. There are 4 on you car.
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Old 08-11-2014, 07:17 PM   #81
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Thanks, seem to be in fair shape, not dissolving or brittle, looks like they were not subject to grease or gas over the years.
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Old 08-11-2014, 09:14 PM   #82
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Bruce in southern OH View Post
Ken/everyone the speedometer cable runs from the passenger side rear housing, along frame rail, out in fender well for about a foot and into the inside of car and is connected to the back of big speedometer. I thought I saw the cable going to the drive shaft, but it was the emergency brake cable going in that direction. Now what would be missing from the Columbia system? The dash going to floor and transmission pans were removed when I got car. ( parts are with the car ) Several wires and small metal clad cables/wires disconnected on back of speedometer, what would these have gone to??? I did remove the front drum grease seals this evening, will order front and rear drum seals tomorrow, bearings do say Ford B-1201 and seem to be in very good condition, I will repack them and continue to work on brakes.
.
cable from Columbia rear housing
.


.
Ken, is this the front body mount you spoke of????
.

Bruce, When you say metal clad cables there is a heater cable that is attached to the pass side of the console,post some pics of whats there.. The speedometer cable being from the axle housing tells me its probably factory installed,there is nothing missing if you have the shifter valve on the steering box with the cable that goes inside to the dash. Here is some pics of the frame isolators,if yours look ok then use them but keep in mind if they are bad or have become un vulcanized there aint much holding the suspension in the car.
Attached Images
File Type: jpg IMG_1124.jpg (40.0 KB, 52 views)
File Type: jpg IMG_1125.jpg (39.9 KB, 48 views)
File Type: jpg IMG_1126.jpg (38.8 KB, 40 views)
File Type: jpg IMG_1127.jpg (37.9 KB, 37 views)
File Type: jpg IMG_1128.jpg (41.2 KB, 33 views)
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Old 08-12-2014, 06:09 AM   #83
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Default Re: Yes, they are still out there NUMBER 2

Bruce, Unlike Ford & Mercury, if an LZ was ordered new in '39 with a Columbia, the unit was installed at the factory. If it was an afterthought, it would have been installed at the dealership. The Columbia I have for our '39 (came out of a Coupe) does not have the speedometer cable attached to the rear axel, it is attached to the transmission, with a "gear kick down" unit mounted to the firewall. As Ken mentioned, there is a rod that attaches the "vacuum switch" (mounted on the steering box) to the clutch peddle assembly, the rod passes through the "belly pan" that shields the clutch and brake peddle assembly. In addition to the cable that (in my car) has a bracket that mounts under the dash to the left of the steering column drop. The cable in my car is split, with one end going to the vacuum switch and the other to the speedometer "kick down" unit on the firewall. My car is a "late production" as was the coupe that the Columbia came out of.
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Old 08-12-2014, 03:38 PM   #84
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Ken/everyone, here are photos of the heater parts I have with car. Next I did order the grease seals today, will wait on them and then reassemble drums with bearings packed. I am going to leave lower adjustment star screw loose and test wheel cylinders before adjustment. If wheel cylinders work well I will adjust and try to drive car with stuck clutch, I am hoping it frees up.
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heater parts that I have, came with car
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Old 08-12-2014, 04:57 PM   #85
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Default Re: Yes, they are still out there NUMBER 2

Hey Bruce, your stuck clutch.

Rotorwrench tipped me off to:

Get the rear up on jack stands
2nd gear start the car in gear.

Get the speed up to 30-ish MPH...foot in Clutch and hit the brakes hard.

Mine freed up the 2nd try.
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Old 08-12-2014, 06:32 PM   #86
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Mike B. as soon as I get front drums/tires back on I will might try that, I have to remove the rears first and clean up brakes, bleed them and check wheel cylinders, give me some time and I will report back as soon as I have brakes, thanks for another idea, BJ
( have clutch pedal depressed now with a board )

Last edited by Bruce in southern OH; 08-12-2014 at 06:33 PM. Reason: add line
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Old 08-12-2014, 09:13 PM   #87
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Bruce in southern OH View Post
Ken/everyone, here are photos of the heater parts I have with car. Next I did order the grease seals today, will wait on them and then reassemble drums with bearings packed. I am going to leave lower adjustment star screw loose and test wheel cylinders before adjustment. If wheel cylinders work well I will adjust and try to drive car with stuck clutch, I am hoping it frees up.
.
heater parts that I have, came with car
.
Bruce, The heater blower shown at the bottom of the picture isnt for your car,I dont reconize what it fits but definatly not your Zephyr. The one in the top of the picture and the elbow with the silencer looks correct. The piece of flat curved steel with the large and small hole doesnt belong to the heater at all, it goes on top of the transmission over the shifter tower to serve as a support for the sponge seal that goes between it and the removeable transmission cover. The sponge seal isnt available for the Lincoln but I made one from buying two of the sponge seals for 37-39 Ford car part # 78-7012130 and using them. Included a picture of the metal ring and where it goes.
Attached Images
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Old 08-13-2014, 03:41 PM   #88
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Default Re: Yes, they are still out there NUMBER 2

Working on the rear brake drum removal, drivers side came off easily, passenger side will not move, Have a good hub tool, used a wrench with a cheater. Brakes are released, drum spins freely. I left the drum under pressure from hub tool and build a dam and filled with PB Blaster to soak the axle. I will look on search for drum removal tips!!!
ALSO , need Vin# location, got my title today from previous owner and will have to have vin# verified.
.
Hub puller with PB Plaster
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Old 08-13-2014, 05:06 PM   #89
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Default Re: Yes, they are still out there NUMBER 2

Hey Bruce, I'd put a nut on the stud there so as not to flatten out the threads.
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Old 08-13-2014, 05:39 PM   #90
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The VIN is located on the front crossmember on the drivers side .
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Old 08-15-2014, 08:43 PM   #91
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Thanks Ken, good location for number and it matched my title. Today I repaired the passenger side front brake line. Still with brakes bleed the brake pedal would not move, pedal would move if I bleed the wheel cylinders. Pulled front two drums and took brake shoes off and found problem.
.
Wheel cylinder cups rotted
.

.
Cleaned up wheel cylinder
.

.
End view of wheel cylinder
.

.
Will add grease hose to wheel cylinder after installation of bleeder and shove out parts with grease gun, then drive out other parts with a dowel. Will hone the cylinders and order rebuild kit. Want to get some brakes so I can drive car to free up the passenger side rear brake drum ( stuck ) and also get clutch free and working. Next week I hope!!!
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Old 08-16-2014, 04:58 AM   #92
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Default Re: Yes, they are still out there NUMBER 2

Bruce:
Very nice way you discribe & with pictures of what you are doing.
Now We still want to know what's in the trunk ???? ( with pictures )
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Old 08-16-2014, 12:54 PM   #93
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Bill, thanks for reminder, I received the key for the glove box about two days ago and 32Phil made me a couple of spares for the ignition. The trunk key he cut from the code I furnished worked great.
.
Opened trunk, had two rags / towels behind the spare tire, pulled the towels off and this is what I Found.
.
Couple carbs, light bulb set, little Gulf bank can, old gauge, and a sealed rebuild can.
.

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box of ignition parts for unknown use, need a old parts book
.

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lots of hub caps, two Cadillac, Early V8, three SS wheel covers, three early 50 or 60 wheel covers,
.

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old envelope that was torn open
.

.
Loaded my cart with misc. items, small hoses, old radio, back up light, extra rear drum, two NOS head light glass and a chrome trim ring and all the used parts from the V12 motor rebuild. Might not be all small items but close.
.
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Old 08-16-2014, 03:47 PM   #94
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HOLLY $#!T way tooo cool, Love the car,
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Old 08-16-2014, 05:20 PM   #95
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Hey Bruce, is the jack and tool kit still in the car. ? And does your car have a spring on the spare tire rack??
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Old 08-16-2014, 07:52 PM   #96
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Default Re: Yes, they are still out there NUMBER 2

Ken, my '39 LZ was a mid to late production car and it does not have the spring on the spare tire rack... I have seen them on '39 LZ's, do you know if it was an early production part that was discontinued?
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Old 08-16-2014, 08:38 PM   #97
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Ken, is there a compartment for the jack and tool kit, if so where???? No, spring that I know of, you just pull the tire and it leans forward toward you, BJ
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Old 08-16-2014, 09:53 PM   #98
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I think in the sedans the jack would be under the rear seat. Not all Zephyrs had a spring on the spare tire rack, it's a early,late thing.
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Old 08-17-2014, 08:55 PM   #99
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Ken, found nothing in car that was a tool kit, not even a jack, couple of old spoon type tire tools like you would expect for removing tires on a model A. Do you have a photo of what was included? Also, I am working on the wheel cylinders, I guess I will go to Boos to order rebuild kits for each cylinder, my QUESTION is have you changed to a double bowl master cylinder or just rebuild the single Bowl existing one??? thanks for information, Bruce
(front wheel cylinders are 1 1/8", rears are smaller )
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Old 08-17-2014, 09:38 PM   #100
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Im staying with the original single bowl master Cyl. They are the same as Ford 39-48 cars.You should be able to buy cups at your local parts house for the cyls. Are your wheel cyls nice and clean and free of pits? If they arent you might consider buying new ones to save headaches down the road. Here are the numbers for them just in case you need them.
RF WC7536
LF WC7537
RR WC7564
LR WC7563
Those are Raybestos numbers.
I dont have a tool kit for my car yet ,but I can get some pictures from my friends car ,he has the tool kit and jack.
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Old 08-18-2014, 01:00 PM   #101
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Ken, went to O'Rielly's and picked up the rebuild kits for about 3 dollars each, that work well, thanks for advice. Came back and installed and assembled the both front wheel cylinders and put all parts back on one of the drivers side hubs.
Photos of before and after front brake work.
.

.
After rebuild of wheel cylinder
.

.
I think I will go ahead and remove the master cylinder and clean up and replace parts, then only will have to flush lines well to insure I have some brakes. Still have to remove the stuck hub!
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Old 08-18-2014, 01:49 PM   #102
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Lookin' good Bruce!
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Old 08-18-2014, 08:45 PM   #103
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Finished the drives side rear wheel Brakes, put hub on and adjusted brakes. Brake lines still disconnected from all wheels, started removing the master cylinder and will get rebuild kit tomorrow after I find out the bore size. Going to take air compressor and blow lines out sense I now am removing the master cylinder.
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Using up the paint cans I have around the garage, looks like circus came to town!
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Old 08-18-2014, 09:25 PM   #104
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Nice work
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Old 08-19-2014, 05:32 PM   #105
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Ken, everyone, have three wheels now with brakes, rebuilt Master Brake Cylinder today. Going to put tires on car this evening and roll out of garage. I might place car back on one set of jack stands and start in gear and use the one rear brake to see if the clutch will un-stick the clutch?!. Also I am going to move car side to side and see if the rear passenger hub will come loose. MY QUESTION for this evening is: Are there two types of oil required for the Columbia and one for the rear end?? What weight for them??? Thanks
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Old 08-19-2014, 07:33 PM   #106
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Default Re: Yes, they are still out there NUMBER 2

The rear end and columbia takes the same oil. Most but not all Columbia units have separate fill hole. Since the Zephyr has a hypoid type rear , use the fill hole in the rear end. 90 weight is what I use .
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Old 08-20-2014, 08:18 AM   #107
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Bruce in southern OH View Post
I might place car back on one set of jack stands and start in gear and use the one rear brake to see if the clutch will un-stick the clutch?!.
The ONE rear brake probably won't accomplish what you're trying to do because of the differential gears. The OTHER (un-braked) wheel will probably continue to spin along with the DRIVESHAFT. The driveshaft is the part that needs to stop suddenly to make this "clutch un-stick" procedure have a chance of working. Instead, maybe try the procedure by applying the well-adjusted parking brake. That way, both drums (and the driveshaft) should stop abruptly. DD
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Old 08-20-2014, 12:23 PM   #108
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Ken, everyone, I went to O'Reilly's this morning to pick up 90# gear oil, found a very good transfer pump also. While I was gone I let the rear end and transmission drain. Received a V8/V12 Service Bulletin Book yesterday, its say 2 1/2 pints for transmission and 5 1/2 pints for rear end, worked perfect, emptied the gallon and both full to check plug.
V8, I changed course after oil change this morning, was going to use new transfer pump to empty the old gas from tank. All I got was a very dirty hose. Removing old steel gas line and hope to get tank out, thanks Bruce
.
rebuilt master cylinder
.

.
Transfer pump
.

.
Numbers on the Columbia, any info from numbers, let me know
.


.
Cleanup and found fill information
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Old 08-20-2014, 01:02 PM   #109
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Bruce, I would use the larger hole in the banjo housing to refill, notice its a little higher. Lots of Columbias that came on the Zephyr did not have the extra fill hole on the Columbia unit. Thats because the Zephyrs having the Hypoid type rear axle and the Fords did not. Just in case you dont know, to get the tank out you will need to unscrew the filler neck from the tank. It takes a spanner wrench but mine would not budge. I wound up using a pipe wrench and whacked it with a hammer to break it loose. Dont forget to put in a new lead washer when you reinstall the neck.
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Old 08-20-2014, 01:30 PM   #110
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Default Re: Yes, they are still out there NUMBER 2

Bruce -I love the look of that V-12, someone is looking over ya on that purchase!!
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Old 08-21-2014, 09:09 PM   #111
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Ken, one QUESTION, do I have to have tank free of gas tank mounting bolts and remove tire to turn the filler tube, I did get the inside splash fender out. Also found the only spanner wrench I have that fits the hole in the collar of fill tube.
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inside fender splash screw, one of two, looking at top one, who thought that up at factory!
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.
Fill tube inside fender well before inter fender splash removed
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Old 08-21-2014, 10:17 PM   #112
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"inside fender splash screw, one of two, looking at top one, who thought that up at factory!"
Now how old is the car and how long did it last? I think they did OK! Not sure what the design goals were, but most likely not more that 20 years tops and probably much less. So, I would say the engineers were way over designing these cars because they have out lived their intended life span several times over LOL.
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Old 08-21-2014, 11:16 PM   #113
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One you get the filler neck removed and the bolts holding the tank to the frame, dont forget to remove the fuel line and the sending unit wire. There is an access cover in the trunk floor to get to the sending unit. Once its all loose you will find its still quite a challenge to get the tank out. You will have to slide the tank to one side as far as it will go and then force the other side past the lip of the frame. Im thinking if you slide it hard to the drivers side it will give a tad more clearance than the other way . You will swear it will not come out but you just have to hit the right combination!
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Old 08-22-2014, 08:17 AM   #114
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Wow!!! Great find! I'm sure you will have fun with that one. What a great story.
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Old 08-22-2014, 04:15 PM   #115
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Default Re: Yes, they are still out there NUMBER 2

Ken, everyone, thanks for info, it was a great day in the Neighborhood as Mr. Rogers would say. Went to friends house/garage this morning and picked up a lathe that I traded for over a year ago, it is now at my garage.
Next went to unload lathe and big rain storm came and I went in garage to check on my gas fill tube pipe. I cut up an old inner tube yesterday and took a hose clamp and made a sock around fill tube and filled with motor oil and PB blaster (did not have any automatic transmission fluid). Removed the inner tube and wiped off oil and tried my spanner wrench, just a little hammer action and it was loose, GREAT!!! Next I found that the fill tube would not come out. Next removed the gas gauge wire, the three bolts from tank ( lost some skin on those ). Next moved tank to passenger side and got fill tube out, double GREAT. Last but not least I found just the right spot and tank came right OUT!! Soaked in sweat and Pennsylvania dirt I went home, now to find a radiator shop to clean the fill tube and tank, I will seal with a POR product, again thanks for info, BJ
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39 tank and fill tube, looks like minor rust and dirt,
.

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side view of tank and filler tube
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Old 08-25-2014, 04:51 PM   #116
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Took gas tank and gas fill tube to local radiator shop, told would be about a week. They are going to place tank in a large tank and soak, remove and place in a hot bath of un know material then dry. After drying they will apply red coating material, will have to cure for 48 hours, told cost is going to be $150.00. POR products alone would be 50 plus dollars, I have found that the material for coating takes about double amount they suggest. I have even cut tanks open, sand blasted and then painted and it uses every bit of product and that is wiping can out bare. Good thing about radiator shop coating inside of tank is that they almost flood tank and that helps coat the back side of the baffles. Will post photos of tank and tube as soon as I receive back.
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Old 08-25-2014, 05:21 PM   #117
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Very interesting reading and great explanations!

I know you're having fun!!
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Old 08-26-2014, 09:35 PM   #118
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Default Re: Yes, they are still out there NUMBER 2

Ordered two electric fuel pumps today, 2 - 4 psi. AIRTEX E8902, 6 volt, Pumps will work pos. or neg. to ground, (just swap the two wires around). I also ordered two 6 volt relays, TE CONNECTIVITY / POTTER & BRUMFIELD - 1432873-1 - AUTOMOTIVE RELAY, SPDT, 6VDC, 40A. Will install one pump and relay on the 39 LZ and install the other on pickup truck. I plan on controlling relay with column on/off switch and fuse the pump. Talked to Don P. this evening for advice and he is running his stock mechanical pump and an additional toggle switch in electric pump circuit to prime car after it sets for awhile, he even has a small light to tell him pump is running. Purchased from Amazon.com, should be here Thursday or Friday.
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Old 08-27-2014, 04:18 AM   #119
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Default Re: Yes, they are still out there NUMBER 2

Hey Bruce:
You better recheck that last bolt,
I don't think you got it tight enough. LOL
I love this step by step explnations of what you are doing, it really makes me feel I am there with you,


NO / No Really go check that last bolt ~~~
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Old 08-27-2014, 08:04 AM   #120
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Hi Bruce,
if you are planning on running the electric fuel pumps as secondary/auxiliary pumps, try to get diaphragms for the stock pumps, that are known to be impervious to the harmful effects of ethanol gas on rubber components in the fuel system. Should the stock pump experience diaphragm failure, the electric pump will put fuel into the crankcase... Not a good thing!
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Old 08-27-2014, 03:19 PM   #121
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I got that bolt tight Bill, I have heard of having a screw loose before!

VIC, I plan on having the electric pump as primary fuel delivery to carb. Going to by-pass the mechanical pump, I thought the fitting from pump to carb was leaking on old fuel pump, found that the diaphragm/gasket between half's of fuel pump is weeping gas. (screws are tight) Ordered a new firewall flex line and will have to connect flex line to line that used to go to carb. This will work until I have time to build a pass thru system.
Also went to O'Reilly's today and purchased a mechanical water temp gauge, I will install in the drivers side head radiator hose neck, it has a place to install a bulb. I would like to install one on the passenger side also but the hose neck does not have the fitting opening. ( anyone have a extra neck with fitting opening?) That way I could check the engine temp on both sides when I get to drive. Looks like an original electric water temp sending unit on the radiator, I am not using existing wiring until I get a chance to repair wiring.
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Old 08-27-2014, 04:12 PM   #122
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Bruce, In '39 (most, if not all production LZ's) the temp sending unit was located in the radiator upper tank. not in the left (drivers side) head. As I understand it, they moved the sending unit to the head in '40. My '39 has a '40 V-12 in it, and the radiator has a plug where the original sending unit was located. Are the heads on your car cast iron or aluminum? If they are cast iron, they were retrofit. Its possible that your car was retrofit with '40 heads. Only the drivers side head was equipped to accommodate the single sending unit. The temp sending unit in the head is much better in my opinion.
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Old 08-30-2014, 08:26 PM   #123
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Default Re: Yes, they are still out there NUMBER 2

Vic, first yes to all the above information, I have original aluminum heads, 40 heads on car now. NOW for my QUESTION EVERYONE!!! I removed the rear end from the 39 LZ today, I thought I read that the transmission could be taken out from inside car??? I removed front seat, the question is, do I have to disconnect exhaust and radiator lower hoses, looks like the only way to remove transmission is to jack up rear of motor 4 inches at least to clear cross member, let me know your thoughts.
Things I have tried to do this week, slow cranking motor, took starter off and had cleaned, new cable to solenoid, still not right!
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Removed interior front seat and all part that connect to rear end and torque tube. Still have not got shock links off, mystery to me?
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Removed the rear end, thought I would finish job easily this evening by pulling transmission and finding out why the clutch is stuck, but can not get transmission out like the little early V8's or model A!!!!
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Last edited by Bruce in southern OH; 08-31-2014 at 07:53 PM. Reason: Photo edit
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Old 08-31-2014, 08:08 PM   #124
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Default Re: Yes, they are still out there NUMBER 2

Found one reason that the transmission was low in car, I could not get the universal covers off with out lifting engine up so transmission would raise. Today I took rear transmission support off, it came off in two pieces, the top was broke in half,( metal ring with rubber cover ) has been this way for a long time, it let the transmission/universal cover rest on the cross member. I was hoping that it affected the clutch linkage/stuck clutch problem but does not. Looking for replacement rear transmission support, have located one transmission support from man in California, appreciate his help and information. NOW for the question today, told today that I could unscrew cap around the shift lever and would let me remove shifter without having to take side off transmission. I believe him but is this cap under spring pressure on just a lift off/out, how hard to replace lever in correct position. thanks everyone
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Old 08-31-2014, 10:11 PM   #125
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Default Re: Yes, they are still out there NUMBER 2

Quote:
Originally Posted by Bruce in southern OH View Post
Found one reason that the transmission was low in car, I could not get the universal covers off with out lifting engine up so transmission would raise. Today I took rear transmission support off, it came off in two pieces, the top was broke in half,( metal ring with rubber cover ) has been this way for a long time, it let the transmission/universal cover rest on the cross member. I was hoping that it affected the clutch linkage/stuck clutch problem but does not. Looking for replacement rear transmission support, have located one transmission support from man in California, appreciate his help and information. NOW for the question today, told today that I could unscrew cap around the shift lever and would let me remove shifter without having to take side off transmission. I believe him but is this cap under spring pressure on just a lift off/out, how hard to replace lever in correct position. thanks everyone
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Hey Bruce, The shifter is really easy to remove on your Zephyr.No need to unscrew the cap. Look at the base of the shifter and just above where it meets the transmission you will see it has a pin through it. Remove the cotter pin and drive the pin out and the shift lever will pull up. Its just sitting over a stub shaft. Steele Rubber Products can rebuild your rear mount. Got mine from Alan Whelihan,but no matter where you get one chances are that Steele rebuilt it. They are a little pricey if you havent already found that out.

Last edited by Ken/Alabama; 08-31-2014 at 10:16 PM.
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Old 09-01-2014, 07:06 AM   #126
Bruce in southern OH
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Default Re: Yes, they are still out there NUMBER 2

Thanks Ken, as soon as I read I went to garage and removed pin (no cotter pin, missing ) that was GREAT!! Will get a couple of extra hands later today and Finally Remove Transmission, have it down to bare bones now. Thanks again, need info again pf where to purchase a Lincoln Service Book. (have a V8/V12 Service Bulletins Book and old Chilton's book, not enough detail )
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This morning at about 7:30 AM EST,
Before pin removal
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After removal, took about 30 seconds
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Old 09-01-2014, 09:33 AM   #127
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Here is the answer at 10:00AM, removed transmission at 9:30AM, with the transmission removed worked my way around the pressure plate loosening the 6 bolts, had to rotate engine to get on all the bolts. Got the 6 bolts removed and the pressure plate still stayed in place. With a screw driver underneath so pressure plate would not fall quickly I pried on plate with a small pry bar. It came loose and we removed, it was stuck enough to support all its weight. Material off of clutch disc on pressure plate face. Now to remove the clutch disc from fly wheel, we worked around the disc with straight blade screw driver to get where I could get behind disc a little to pull off. I came off leaving material on fly wheel and removing material from disc. I guess if you leave 500lbs. of pressure on the disc for 32 plus years this is what you get, I still think they had a problem before I got car because floor pans were removed!!!
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pressure plate
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disc removed
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material left on fly wheel, will take a DA sander and remove
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Disc?????
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Old 09-01-2014, 04:32 PM   #128
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Default Re: Yes, they are still out there NUMBER 2

We've done a few of those 39 LZ trannies. Lots of confusing parts in the shifter housing. While you have everything out, take the time to drain the trans oil and pop the cover off the side. Put the trans in neutral as always before removing the cover. Look for any obvious broken gear teeth, loose/worn synchro rings, etc. if things look dry, crusty, rusty or worse in there, consider going thru the trans. If that isn't your cup of tea, just bring it down to Cincy and we can go thru it for you.
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Old 09-02-2014, 06:36 AM   #129
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Default Re: Yes, they are still out there NUMBER 2

I see the clutch plate is a slightly different size than the pressure plate. You may want to replace with rebuild so they match size.
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Old 09-02-2014, 12:56 PM   #130
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Default Re: Yes, they are still out there NUMBER 2

That thing about clutch size matching doesn't ring true for me, I can't see a problem. If the disc was overhanging the pressure plate, then I would be worried.

I'd clean up the parts and put them back in. (But you all probably knew that).

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Old 09-02-2014, 02:24 PM   #131
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Default Re: Yes, they are still out there NUMBER 2

Mac/Terry/Mart, everyone. Don P. and I opened the side of transmission today and found everything very tight, clean and working well. Mac the rear gear on main shaft was the only one with wear on front edge. We thought that might be low?
Terry the disc is found only in one size material width, outside diameter on both are 10"
Mart, Don and I cleaned up the pressure plate with a DA sander. I borrowed his electric DA sander and cleaned up the flywheel, then wiped off the flywheel with brake cleaner, looks fine now. Will be using all the old parts EXCEPT I need a new 10" X 10 spline 1 3/8" clutch Disc, thicker the better.
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Transmission photos for Mac's review?
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transmission synchronizers
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Transmission gears
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Clutch pressure plate cleaned up and we adjusted fingers to a uniform height.
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Flywheel cleaned up
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Old 09-02-2014, 04:09 PM   #132
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Default Re: Yes, they are still out there NUMBER 2

Lookin' good Bruce, you're startin' to have some fun now...
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Old 09-02-2014, 06:09 PM   #133
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Default Re: Yes, they are still out there NUMBER 2

Vic, this car is becoming the DEVIL car, I think if I get it running and road worthy I will wait for a cold day in November and hit I-64W to I-75S and see how far south it will roll!!!! If you have a good 10" clutch disc laying around let me know(smile). Going to start cleaning up the rearend/torque tube and find out more about the Columbia while it is out. Waiting on gas tank and fill tube to return, yes I am starting to have FUND. (fun)
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Old 09-02-2014, 06:14 PM   #134
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Default Re: Yes, they are still out there NUMBER 2

Bruce....looking at the pic of the open gearset, it appears that the rear-most bronze synchro ring is pretty much close up against second gear. See how there is a gap between the little teeth of the bronze ring where it meets the synchro teeth of the main drive gear. Should be about .050" (about the thickness of a dime visually). When you compare that ring to the one on 2nd gear, you can barely see any gap. The result will be that the ring does not grip the taper on 2nd gear......resulting in a gear "clash" when you shift into second gear. It might work ok on a slow shift.

The question is......do you repair it now while the trans is out, or put if back together and hope it shifts ok when driving it? If you did nothing else I'd recommend replacing the two synchro rings and the various snap rings and thrust washers to freshen it up while it's out and easily accessible.
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Old 09-02-2014, 07:20 PM   #135
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Default Re: Yes, they are still out there NUMBER 2

Bruce, Mac makes a good point, and he may even have a good clutch disk. He has the other transmission parts for the '39 LZ... Ask me how I know...
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Old 09-04-2014, 03:10 PM   #136
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Default Re: Yes, they are still out there NUMBER 2

I still have not gotten the passenger side rear hub loose, have taken and placed tires back on the rear end and placed hub puller on axle under load. Pulled the rear end around with the side by side. Pulled in yard, around side of hill, on bumpy road, have shaken tires side to side with two people, spun tire and hit tire with hammer and still not moved. Removed puller and pulled it also, just parked the rear end at garage and put hub puller back on and tightened up, maybe temp change at night will help. Anyone have any more ideas so I do not ruin threads on axle????
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pulling up driveway with side by side
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Return to garage
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Old 09-05-2014, 06:31 PM   #137
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Default Re: Yes, they are still out there NUMBER 2

Picked up the 39 LZ gas tank and fill tube today from radiator shop. They did an excellent job. Man that owns shop said that he really wish he could see in the two hidden areas of tank to see how well the coating did because of the extent of rust. (said one of the worst tanks he had done due to amount of rust) I told him if he wanted I could cut two holes in the two parts of tank that did not have line of sight. Took tank to garage, filled with WATER and cut two holes, one in the top end opposite from fill tube and one in the middle rear behind baffle and sending unit. Used my 2 3/8" conduit hole saw, both slugs removed were coated heavily with the red coating material. We both inspected the interior and found that if not entirely clean and coated, that if particles of rust were still present that they were heavily coated and held in place with the red material. Fill tube was as good as new. Will take tank to Don P. on Monday and install two covers with gaskets and screws to close holes.
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Gas tank after installation of two holes for inspection, black lines are the interior baffles
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Picture of tank and two slugs removed from tank, both slugs were coated, you can click on photo to enlarge photo to view slugs closer.
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Fill tube coating was also done nicely
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Old 09-05-2014, 07:52 PM   #138
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Default Re: Yes, they are still out there NUMBER 2

Bruce,

Iv'e had luck with stuck hubs putting the puller on, pulling it good and tight, then licking around the axle/hub tapered tapered portion with a torch. Put some heat around it, let it cool, repeat a few times and between heatings, pull that puller up tight. During one of these cycles, it will come loose. On one Lincoln, I had the puller on for two days, tight. I used heat carefully off and on one day, and did nothing but leave the puller tight on it overnight and through the second day. Didn't touch it the second day, and lunch time I was in another room, heard a BANG, and the stuck hub gave up and had released its grip on the axle.

Good luck,

Steve
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Old 09-05-2014, 07:52 PM   #139
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Default Re: Yes, they are still out there NUMBER 2

Remove puller on axle, heat the drum taper to maybe 500 to 600 dregs F, reinstall puller and tighten it up and hit the end of the screw on the puller with a BFH - May take multiple hits with BFH. I have seen heat do wonders. Hope this helps.
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Old 09-05-2014, 08:17 PM   #140
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Default Re: Yes, they are still out there NUMBER 2

Highboy34 and Bill OH, just what I am now doing, heated twice today, think I will look for a rose bud to get more heat quicker, using a cutting tip. I have been lightly taping on the screw of puller, did not what to damage axle. You cannot install a nut on axle and install the puller also, no room. Bill will heat a couple more times and hope for the best, need off very bad, brake work that I could get done, pack bearing, rebuild wheel cylinder, etc. thanks to both of you, BJ
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Old 09-07-2014, 07:49 PM   #141
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Default Re: Yes, they are still out there NUMBER 2

Last couple of days as I found time I have pressure washed, diesel fuel cleaned with brush, Purple power, water and wire brush on drill. I cleanded pounds of solid grease off the rear end of the 39LZ. This is what I came up with, very red. QUESTION for today?? I cleaned up old solid froze grease from fitting in the middle of torque tube, the fitting sticks out about 3/4" and now leaks oil, why is it leaking oil, does the fitting that lubes mid shaft bearing need repaired??? Any info appreciated.
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Before photo of rear end
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After clean up
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Grease Fitting in Torque Tube
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Old 09-08-2014, 06:56 AM   #142
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Default Re: Yes, they are still out there NUMBER 2

On the Lincoln axle there shouldn't be any oil in the torque tube. With the Hypoid style rear the pinion is mounted low in the banjo housing. To keep the oil from running out ,there is a seal at the pinion. To change the seal the torque tube must be removed. Fords don't have this seal because they have a straddle mounted pinion and it's up higher.
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Old 09-09-2014, 05:50 AM   #143
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Default Re: Yes, they are still out there NUMBER 2

Ken/everyon, will try and get the seal and replace while out, does not sound like a problem to do while out of car and everything is clean. I took the GAS TANK to Don P. and we/he made two metal covers for the inspection holes I cut in tank. Drilled the cover with larger holes than tank and drilled the holes for SS screws correct size for screws. Don cut two cork gaskets, we coated with the red tank sealer and tighten up. Should be there for the next generation! Loading up the rear end this morning to take to Don P's garage to see if he/we can remove that hub, if we must, blasting is now not ruled out!
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Gas tank # 1 hole prep work
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Gas tank #2 hole prep work
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Gas tank metal cover and cork gasket Don made with gasket cutter, red sealer
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Gas tank cover installed
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Old 09-09-2014, 06:23 AM   #144
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Default Re: Yes, they are still out there NUMBER 2

Quote:
Originally Posted by Bruce in southern OH View Post
Last couple of days as I found time I have pressure washed, diesel fuel cleaned with brush, Purple power, water and wire brush on drill. I cleanded pounds of solid grease off the rear end of the 39LZ. This is what I came up with, very red. QUESTION for today?? I cleaned up old solid froze grease from fitting in the middle of torque tube, the fitting sticks out about 3/4" and now leaks oil, why is it leaking oil, does the fitting that lubes mid shaft bearing need repaired??? Any info appreciated.
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Before photo of rear end
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After clean up
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Grease Fitting in Torque Tube
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Bruce:
If the ball was removed from the grease fitting is it possible it was put there to drain any grease that may get past the pinion seal ?
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Old 09-09-2014, 04:23 PM   #145
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Default Re: Yes, they are still out there NUMBER 2

Its a little late maybe but here is one method of removing the 39 rear drums. I will need to try it on mine when I get as far as the brakes.
http://www.btc-bci.com/~billben/axle.htm
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Old 09-09-2014, 08:02 PM   #146
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Default Re: Yes, they are still out there NUMBER 2

Bill, I took the special grease fitting out today, it is a grease fitting made with a 1" nipple, I thought maybe two piece but it is one. Threaded on other end it treads into the middle carrier bearing housing so bearing gets grease. The oil comes out from around the grease fitting nipple, so if there is a small gap around the nipple(which there is) any oil in tube will leak. With torque tube in car it is higher than oil level in rear end on level ground.
Ralph G., I would now not recommend that, I found out today that the axle will not take any or very little abuse before it bends the threaded portion of axle or collapses the threads. After heating several time in past weeks, soaking in PB Blaster, leaving the hub puller on for days at a time, we/Don P. had to take a cutting wheel to the hub. We placed a 1/2" EMT coupling over threads to protect and cut the hub over the axle key. Place the Hub puller on hub and tighten up, Don took a cold chisel and small hammer and tapped the hub in the cut and it POPPED. Removed hub, have a slight bend in the threaded end of axle now. Also, removed the shocks from the shock links today, they too are tapered. Looking for a good hub, did not touch the drum.
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Don P. relieving the hub with cold chisel
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Removing the drum for first time, light weight puller is all it took once relieved of pressure
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Thought it was a thumbs up moment, Don said it was a TWO thumbs up!!!!!!!
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Old 09-09-2014, 09:00 PM   #147
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Default Re: Yes, they are still out there NUMBER 2

Hated to tear up a good drum,better a drum than an axle, that's the second drum I've seen like that,only way was to cut it off ,just needed the housing for my Columbia.
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Old 09-09-2014, 09:15 PM   #148
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Default Re: Yes, they are still out there NUMBER 2

I have not been paying attention but I now realize, looking at your photos , your Lincoln has a different bolt pattern than my Ford Deluxe which has the typical old Ford five bolts way out on the outer diameter of the drum. And I thought the hub and drum were one piece on mine. Now I will have to go out to the shed and have a look. Unless somebody can correct me before I do that.
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Old 09-10-2014, 06:51 AM   #149
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Default Re: Yes, they are still out there NUMBER 2

Quote:
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I have not been paying attention but I now realize, looking at your photos , your Lincoln has a different bolt pattern than my Ford Deluxe which has the typical old Ford five bolts way out on the outer diameter of the drum. And I thought the hub and drum were one piece on mine. Now I will have to go out to the shed and have a look. Unless somebody can correct me before I do that.
Lincoln used the wide bolt pattern until mid year 38 then changed to the 5 1/2" bolt pattern. Ford didn't make the change till 40.
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Old 09-11-2014, 07:40 AM   #150
Bruce in southern OH
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Default Re: Yes, they are still out there NUMBER 2

Traveled yesterday to Mac VanPelt's with Don P., showed up and he was already working in his shop. Unloaded the 39LZ transmission and we quickly took apart. Inspected several parts for wear that could or would cause a problem once I get the car rolling under its own power. Got a quick class on how all the synchronizers work and engage as you shift and the problem he saw in a Fordbarn photo I posted of the synchronizer. The lack of space between the synchronizer and gear was the give away of synchronizer worn out and not grabbing the gear and bringing up to speed. Inspected all gears, shafts, bearings, case and shifting tower for problems. I will return next week to pick up the transmission. We also got a tour of the shop, tools and his inventory of transmissions, engines and V8 parts. We went to lunch in his 42 Tudor, just a very enjoyable time was had by Don and I. Thanks Mac and Will
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Transmissions neon sign
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Arriving and taking transmission apart
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Synchronizer space correct photo, if you have no space it is worn out.
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worn out
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Main shaft that has wear and is best replaced, he had several that are NOS and also a used shaft that was good.
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I have no information of cars past mechanical repairs, we found two of the short roller bearings that one had wear on rollers and one that looked new, at some time in past someone has replaced limited parts. We/I learned the function of the rear thrust washer, mine was in fairly good shape with the babbit groves still showing, Mac said he has seen some very thin and makes for a lot of travel.
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Not all the photos or information, but all for today , Except Mac's 42 Tudor, on our way to Lunch.
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Old 09-11-2014, 08:14 AM   #151
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Default Re: Yes, they are still out there NUMBER 2

Lookin' good but, I gotta ask; Mac, what's with those baby white walls...??? LOL
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Old 09-15-2014, 02:52 PM   #152
Bruce in southern OH
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Default Re: Yes, they are still out there NUMBER 2

Ken/Vic, everyone, I removed the Torque tube today so that I could replace the seal between the banjo and tube (National seal #450082), removed little retainer ring in front of speedo gear, speedo gear, removed torque tube, removed the drive shaft, NOW? I have to remove the double nut holding the pinion gear to get to the seal retainer holder. Question is what would it do to the settings of pinion and what does it re-torque to??? Information appreciated, thanks Bruce
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photo of pinion and the double nut with retainer washer ( looks like the double nut is one piece with one side locked with washer )
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Drive shaft/torque tube had a lot of oil in tube when I removed, oil had only traveled as far as the torque tube middle support bearing
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Does this ever happen to you?, "Man I hate when this happens!!!!"
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Old 09-15-2014, 06:19 PM   #153
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Default Re: Yes, they are still out there NUMBER 2

Might have found several answers to the question about removing the lock ring and loosening the pinion nuts. Also found out what to set the nuts back to after the new pinion oil seal is installed. Let me know what you think, Bruce
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1. http://www.oldengine.org/members/sou...xles-M444a.pdf
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2. You need to check the preload on pinion before taking apart. It is in inch
pounds around 20 in #. It should take about 20 in. # to make it turn
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3. 07-28-2010, 10:13 AM #3
Bruce Lancaster
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Default Re: Pinion pre-load...
Pete, here are the numbers I have stacked up:
Pinion bearing torque: A-B type, 3547 inch pounds, Model 18 1932-4 20-25 inch pounds, 12-16 later rear 1935-48

KRW tool has no spring, but what I did last time was to simply find some big regular socket that was able to crudely snag the splines plus several adaptors to hook the big socket to a tiny inch-pound torque wrench.
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Old 09-15-2014, 07:47 PM   #154
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Default Re: Yes, they are still out there NUMBER 2

Wife got the blue model paint for me from hobby shop today, I painted the numbers/letters on my 39LZ Ohio plates this evening. You have to paint the plate correct color for the year (1939 - white with blue letters ) In Ohio we can register the plates to car as the permanent plate, historical plates are good for 50 years. You pay one time and do not have to go back every year like my car, truck and trailer, also if you look at an OHIO sticker it has the birthday day and month of the owner on small county sticker.
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Old 09-20-2014, 06:54 AM   #155
Bruce in southern OH
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Default Re: Yes, they are still out there NUMBER 2

Traveled to Mac VanPelt's Sales LLC and picked up my Zephyr transmission last Wednesday with Don P. We still went over several items about the transmissions, synchronizers, transmission oil and rear end oil he recommends. ( 140#GL4 transmission and 90#GL5 Columbia rear end ). Removal of transmission all started because of stuck clutch and Mac viewing a photo of my transmission on Fordbarn. I installed transmission yesterday evening and I manually rotated the transmission in gear with pedal depressed and the clutch NOW works. BUT, I am telling you something is not correct (not with transmission) it is the linkage and adjustment of clutch, I am still at the limit of adjustment on the clutch. I can only think that several things have changed in 75 years. 1. the fly wheel has been re-surfaced to a point that it has moved way from bell housing. 2. The arm on the transmission shaft in not correct. 3. there is a thick throw out bearing needed on yoke. 4. the throw out bearing yoke is wrong and does not push the bearing far enough. I now have about 1/2 space between fingers and throw out bearing. When I adjust to make pressure plate release the clutch release arm is almost against the bell housing. Any info and information to correct before I install the rear end again appreciated, BJ
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Mac, me, Will
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Labor rates that Don P. thought was helpful
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He did have two Zephyr transmissions in shop that day, very interesting story about the other Zephyr cars history.
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Old 09-20-2014, 08:29 AM   #156
Terry,OH
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Default Re: Yes, they are still out there NUMBER 2

Some photos of the TO bearing, clutch release arm, and any other questionable parts would be good. You want to adjust the linkage so the clutch pedal (while sitting on it's bumper) has about 1" of movement before the TO touches the fingers on the PP. Small movement of the linkage should result in a bit of movement to the TO. So 1/2" of space between the TO and PP fingers does not sound too unreasonable. You may want to check embossed part numbers on some of the parts with a part book. If Mac has a second transmission in the shop maybe he can comparer the two arms by photo and dimensions

Last edited by Terry,OH; 09-20-2014 at 08:34 AM.
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Old 09-22-2014, 08:10 PM   #157
Bruce in southern OH
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Default Re: Yes, they are still out there NUMBER 2

Terry, thanks for info, the second Zephyr transmission was a 1940 Continental. Here are some of the photos I took today after I installed the rear end back under car.
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1939 Zephyr transmission
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39 linkage
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Torque tube connected today, going the right direction now, should have driving this week!
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Old 09-23-2014, 07:03 AM   #158
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Default Re: Yes, they are still out there NUMBER 2

Lookin' good Bruce. I'm looking forward to reading about your first driving experience... I love the way our LZ drives.
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Old 09-27-2014, 07:55 PM   #159
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Default Re: Yes, they are still out there NUMBER 2

Well it finally happened, I finished a legal pad of several pages of small items, got in car and started engine. Now for the big moment, will it go in gear, IT WORKS, it will go in gear with out grinding. NEXT, will the the clutch work so I can pull of lift, ITS ALIVE!!!! Backed up and now for the last item, wonder if brakes work, yes I can stop but they need adjusted. So off the hill I go and behind me is a Contrail of blue smoke. The oil mix of plain oil, MMO and ATF used when I freed motor up is burning out of the front exhaust heat exchanger and also out of the tube type muffler. This is the warmest/hottest that motor/exhaust system has been sense I have had car. Drove up and down my small one lane road which is only a mile long several times. (no mosquitoes out tonight with the fog I laid down ) Every thing seems to work fine, have not had a location yet to try the Columbia, going to BMV ( Bureau of Motor Vehicles ) to get a verification of serial number now that I can load up to travel. Next I need to replace the wiring, thinking of getting a modern wiring harness and placing in old style cloth tube cover with fuse block. When I did stop car and turn engine off the radiator sounded like you had eaten bad food and your stomach was upset, will have to see what happens or if you have an idea why, my mechanical water temp. gauge says temp was about 180 when I turned off. Thanks for all the help along the way, still have a long way to go but trying to get lights working, generator charging in next two weeks so I can drive about 60 miles each way to one of the last cruise-ins of year. (southern OHIO gets cold ) thanks Bruce
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Yes I will put hub caps on before going out in Public!!!
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Might even try the fender skirts ???? do not want one to fall off!
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Old 09-27-2014, 08:13 PM   #160
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Default Re: Yes, they are still out there NUMBER 2

That's great news Bruce. The correct wiring harness is available for your car. I have installed them in two 39 Zephyrs and one Continental. They fit really good and look correct.
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Old 09-27-2014, 08:21 PM   #161
Bruce in southern OH
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Default Re: Yes, they are still out there NUMBER 2

Thanks Ken, who is the supplier/suppliers for wiring harness, appreciate all the help,
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Old 09-27-2014, 08:44 PM   #162
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Default Re: Yes, they are still out there NUMBER 2

http://www.lzoc.org/Sources/naragans.pdf
Narragansett Reproductions has the wiring harness , great folks to deal with
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Old 09-28-2014, 12:06 PM   #163
Bruce in southern OH
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Default Re: Yes, they are still out there NUMBER 2

Picked up a couple of books for the 39LZ, not as much info as I was hoping for, like the green bible it shows all model's of Ford that used the same part even if multiple years. Would have been nice to have the LZ info beside the Ford info to share correct parts. Still a lot of fun looking for items that will make car better. I need photos of other 39 transmission and clutch linkage to get idea of correct part or parts my car does not have for clutch adjustment. Also need idea of tire tools that you carry for road side flats, car did not have any jack/tools. Last thing for today, what wiring diagram on the Mac VanPelt site is close to the 39 wiring, thanks Bruce
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Old 09-28-2014, 03:21 PM   #164
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Default Re: Yes, they are still out there NUMBER 2

Bruce, I got the wiring harness for the '39 LZ from Rhode Island Wiring. I had some dealings with Narragansett Reproductions recently, unfortunately, my experience was not as good as Ken's... I won't deal with them again.

I have the original bumper jack with the Zephyr, however, I'd only use it for display! Get yourself a good bottle jack for roadside flat fixes.
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Old 09-28-2014, 05:26 PM   #165
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Default Re: Yes, they are still out there NUMBER 2

Quote:
Originally Posted by Vic Piano View Post
Bruce, I got the wiring harness for the '39 LZ from Rhode Island Wiring. I had some dealings with Narragansett Reproductions recently, unfortunately, my experience was not as good as Ken's... I won't deal with them again.

I have the original bumper jack with the Zephyr, however, I'd only use it for display! Get yourself a good bottle jack for roadside flat fixes.
Vic: Didn't you mean to say to get a good "bottle of Jack (Daniels)"
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Old 09-28-2014, 06:55 PM   #166
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Default Re: Yes, they are still out there NUMBER 2

Lawson, I think the Jack Daniels is used to 'jack up' the driver, not the car... LOL
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Old 09-28-2014, 08:52 PM   #167
Bruce in southern OH
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Default Re: Yes, they are still out there NUMBER 2

There is a thread now on V8 section titled "39 clutch issue " take a look at his photos, look at the clutch release arm. I need to see if I can get a number off the clutch release arm. My 39 Lincoln Zephyr I am working on after I replaced the clutch disc, pressure plate, throw out bearing I still do not have enough travel to release the clutch properly. (free play ) Clutch is releasing but in future I will not have any adjustment because my clutch release arm will hit back of bell housing and I am now maxed out in adjustment. Any information appreciated, Bruce
( 31Pickumup, release arm is at a greater angle towards rear of car which would help me out as far as adjustment and free play )

Last edited by Bruce in southern OH; 09-28-2014 at 08:54 PM. Reason: additional information
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Old 10-01-2014, 09:01 PM   #168
Bruce in southern OH
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Default Re: Yes, they are still out there NUMBER 2

Need some photos of a 39LZ clutch set up to see if my transmission and clutch parts are the correct ones.
TODAY I worked on the rear two tail lights, had to drill top of slotted screws off to release rear lens holder. Next I drilled through the little remaining screws, then drilled the holes out and tapped to accept 10-32 screws, did both sides and cleaned up the rear light housing. ( they were very dirt and non-reflective). Next I mounted the light housings and temporarily powered up the rear electrical items, brake master cylinder switch back to lights, running lights and gas tank gauge wire, everything WORKED. Tomorrow will work on installing rear housings in fenders and move to the head lights and horns.
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After lens removal, existing
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Drilled and tapped
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Prime with aluminum paint, will over spray with Chrome paint
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Working lights after 32 years
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Old 10-02-2014, 06:17 AM   #169
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Default Re: Yes, they are still out there NUMBER 2

I was on the auction site and found this photo note the length of the threads. Is this side LH thread and the other side RH, making the connection piece truly an adjustment turnbuckle? The other side of the adjustment appears like the Fords and they come in slightly different lengths. Too bad the green parts book does not cover the Lincoln, lengths can be found there. Maybe one of the Lincoln guys can chime in with the proper lengths of the various parts of the linkage.
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File Type: jpg lincoln 38-48 clutch.jpg (28.5 KB, 18 views)

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Old 10-02-2014, 06:28 AM   #170
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Default Re: Yes, they are still out there NUMBER 2

I just finished the rewiring, etc. of the taillights on our '39 LZ. Basically, I did the same things you did however, I painted the housings gloss white (I had painted them silver previously) and the reflective quality of the white is far superior, I should mention that our LZ had been converted to 12 volts.
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Old 10-02-2014, 08:23 AM   #171
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Default Re: Yes, they are still out there NUMBER 2

Quote:
Originally Posted by Bruce in southern OH View Post
There is a thread now on V8 section titled "39 clutch issue " take a look at his photos, look at the clutch release arm. I need to see if I can get a number off the clutch release arm. My 39 Lincoln Zephyr I am working on after I replaced the clutch disc, pressure plate, throw out bearing I still do not have enough travel to release the clutch properly. (free play ) Clutch is releasing but in future I will not have any adjustment because my clutch release arm will hit back of bell housing and I am now maxed out in adjustment. Any information appreciated, Bruce
( 31Pickumup, release arm is at a greater angle towards rear of car which would help me out as far as adjustment and free play )

OK my head hurts thinking about this . Won't you be shortening the adjustment as the clutch wears and the fingers move out?
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Old 10-02-2014, 08:53 PM   #172
Bruce in southern OH
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Default Re: Yes, they are still out there NUMBER 2

I am now thinking about what you are saying. I had a stuck clutch, I adjusted to get maximum release, so I think what you are saying is ....... correct. Still holding my fingers out in front of me as the clutch fingers. Head not hurting yet, thinking back when I took car apart, this is the way I found clutch. I figured that because transmission covers were removed that they had a stuck clutch. Now after we found synchronizers bad we think that the grinding they had was not because the clutch was not releasing but the sychronizers were bad! Sooo, with this re-visited I am still thinking that you are correct, but I still have to get my free play correct, will work on the adjustment first think in morning and report. It now takes all the travel to release, as it wears the fingers will move back as you said???????????????????????????????????
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Old 10-02-2014, 09:12 PM   #173
Bruce in southern OH
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Default Re: Yes, they are still out there NUMBER 2

Vic, took car for the first time on a short drive on main road this evening at 6:30PM to what we have up here called "McThursday", small gathering at McDonald's. Wired up the brake lights, tail lights and the generator. The lights drew everyone's attention, they are very bright and some thought they were L E D, clean, bright and good ground makes them bright. The spray can chrome paint really helped me compared to how I found them.
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Old 10-03-2014, 07:59 PM   #174
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Default Re: Yes, they are still out there NUMBER 2

I am continuing to fix and complete a list of small items on car, today changed tires around to try and get a better ride. Next needed air cleaner on car, old stock air cleaner had pieces falling out, traveled to O'Reilly's and gave them my old element and we matched up with a nice USA made filter. Will continue to working on wiring and list.
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Filter installed, works perfect
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Filter information
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Back of package
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Old 10-04-2014, 09:01 PM   #175
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Default Re: Yes, they are still out there NUMBER 2

Got 39 LZ out today, started early and replaced several more items on list, looked around and it was 11:30 and still 45 degrees outside. Started car and took to house to get lunch, after lunch I went out and started car planning on driving about 16 miles to friends house in the 39. Started car and went about 25 feet and it sounded like the bottom fell out of motor. I immediately turned of engine, started up again, no sound, gave the car a little gas and the noise started again and stopped, drove car slowly to garage, got out and no sound, moved carb linkage and the noise was fan hitting the front of distributor !!!!!??? Stopped engine and the fan blades were separated from the hub on front of engine, now what was up with this. Looked in my chassis parts book that I purchased but no drawings, felt around and could not find any way to attach the blade back to hub. THEN I thought I will call Ken in Alabama to see if he had a answer for what I had broken. He answered and told me that the fan blade assembly was held to front of balancer with three special bolts on back of balancer assembly. I found them, but did I have to remove the radiator to get off, first a pause and no was answer. ( I dodged a bullet there ) I asked why fan was loose and hitting the distributor, found out from him fan blades were pressed on a rubber sleeve/extrusion and not found any where. So I removed fan and will weld fan blade assembly to the hub for a quick fix. I did drive car to friends without fan after this but it was now 3:00PM, cool out and did not have any problem until I talked to long with engine running and it got hot, cooled down as soon as I drove on highway.
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Looking down on the fan and fan hub
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Fan removed
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Fan assembly removed from fan hub, just a press on and gave up after 75 years!!!
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Car out in yard, photos are best at 20 plus feet
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Old 10-05-2014, 12:21 PM   #176
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Default Re: Yes, they are still out there NUMBER 2

Not really sure (CRS) but I think Vic had a similar problem.
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Old 10-05-2014, 05:06 PM   #177
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Default Re: Yes, they are still out there NUMBER 2

B-O-B, I did have a problem with the fan in our '39 LZ but, I fixed it. Only problem is, I can't remember what I did to correct the problem... I think CRS is contagious...
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Old 10-05-2014, 07:17 PM   #178
Bruce in southern OH
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Default Re: Yes, they are still out there NUMBER 2

I think I will drill the hub and fan, then put 4 bolts, lock washers and nuts to hold together, after I change to 12 volt system I will remove the steel fan and install a electric fan. Will place steel fan and hub on bubble balancer after assembly to check to see if it is safe to use.
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Old 10-05-2014, 08:57 PM   #179
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Default Re: Yes, they are still out there NUMBER 2

Bruce
What about lock tite and no bolts ,
If you remember I had my 600 HP / 1850 ft,lb torque Cummins self distruct
One of the possable reasons could have been cam gear moved on cam shaft changing timing
Now all cam gears are lock tited at time on manufacturing, should hold fan in place.
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Old 10-05-2014, 09:06 PM   #180
Bruce in southern OH
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Default Re: Yes, they are still out there NUMBER 2

It would be old rubber to a steel fan hub, it was a friction fit, some way they pressed the fan blade assembly hole over the rubber on back side of hub that does bolt to front of balancer. Have plenty of room to drill and bolt, just want it centered up so that it is true. thanks for suggestion, will look at possibility, Bruce
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Old 10-06-2014, 05:38 AM   #181
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Default Re: Yes, they are still out there NUMBER 2

Contact: FLN MAR In Holyoke Ma. 1-413-536-3913
They are a Large Rubber & Plastic Business up here.
When Vic had Problems with his I talked to them & They insured me they had a
Rubber / Steel bonding agent (AKA GLUE ) that would work as if it were Bonded together.
When you call them Just tell the person what you have in some detail & they will get you to the correct person that knows what he is talking about.
GOOD LUCK
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Old 10-06-2014, 06:51 PM   #182
Bruce in southern OH
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Default Re: Yes, they are still out there NUMBER 2

Bill, thanks will call tomorrow!!! Today I started on rewiring car. While I was under the dash I removed the speedometer. It has not worked sense I have had car, found cable broke and I am still looking for the ends ( I have an old roll of speedo cable ) the cable is larger than the cable used in Model a and early Ford short cables. If you have a source for ends I would appreciate the info. Back to the speedometer removal. Removed the glass lens today to see why it is locked up ,two small screws on back of speedo and separated gauges from speedo, little liquid wrench oil and it is still locked up, any experience with this issue, thanks Bruce
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Old 10-07-2014, 06:33 AM   #183
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Default Re: Yes, they are still out there NUMBER 2

The Ford speedometers often will seize from non-use. They have a small plug that can be removed and a few drops of 10W oil added as well as around the entry of the shaft into the speedometer. If you can get the shaft to move with a small screwdriver blade then you can use an electric drill in reverse, to turn the shaft and this usually frees up the speedo shaft.
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Old 10-07-2014, 05:38 PM   #184
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Terry, do you have a photo of the small plug location, I will go take a few photos of the speedo and you take a look, thanks Bruce
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Old 10-08-2014, 05:27 AM   #185
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Default Re: Yes, they are still out there NUMBER 2

IF the plug is there ,you will not miss it, is only about 1/8" Dia. Photo is a 34 Ford but later models also have the plug.
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Old 10-08-2014, 04:38 PM   #186
Bruce in southern OH
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Default Re: Yes, they are still out there NUMBER 2

Terry, everyone, photos of the 39 Zephyr Speedometer:
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Cable entrance, back of speedometer
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side view
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Side view with trip reset cable
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side view
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Old 10-09-2014, 06:37 AM   #187
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Default Re: Yes, they are still out there NUMBER 2

If there was a lube plug it would be in the area of the trip reset cable. Doesn't look like there is one. Is the speedometer entry free to move? If it is frozen this could be the cause of the broken speedometer cable. If it moves by hand you can attach a portion of a speedometer cable and attach it to an electric drill run in reverse. This should test the speedometer and odometer and trip.
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Old 10-09-2014, 07:16 PM   #188
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Great Day in the Neighborhood!!!!! Today after work and a visit with Don P. and Jim C., I went to garage and wanted to try the 6 volt battery again. I had taken the battery back to Interstate to have them load test. It tested good, I have been having starting problems from the beginning, new battery, new battery cables and starter checked. Today I wanted to check battery again to see if the generator was working so I wanted to start. The problem was I have all the old wire removed even the push button to start because I had used the old wire connected to button to solenoid. So I thought I would use the push button on bottom of solenoid. Reached in car and turned on the switch, hit gas pedal twice, choke and not even two rolls of engine and RUNNING. I had just pressed the cables on battery post, not even bolt tight but twist tight. Let car run until warm near hot, turned off and hit button on bottom of solenoid and instant start. All this time the solenoid controlled by the dash push button has been the problem. Will have to order a new solenoid!!!!! Next I went to the Zephyr speedometer I left soaking in PB oil. Worked in more oil in small hole and used a cut off end piece of speedo cable and tried again to move, moved a little, more oil, moved more and now I can rotate. Will let soak more and try a cordless drill tomorrow. Starting problem solved and speedometer close to being free up!!! Still need a new speedo cable from rear of car to speedometer, 165.5 inches long.
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Solenoid on fire wall problem, will start car fine with manual button, but not with electric push button.
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Speedometer, small piece of speedo-cable stuck in little hole is where I found you could get oil into gears. Thanks Terry for info, I now can move but still very stiff.
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Old 10-09-2014, 08:54 PM   #189
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Default Re: Yes, they are still out there NUMBER 2

Hey Bruce, Do one other test on the solenoid. Remove the wire from the small post and replace it with a temporary piece of wire then touch the other end to a head bolt or any good ground and see how it spins.
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Old 10-09-2014, 09:53 PM   #190
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Default Re: Yes, they are still out there NUMBER 2

Noticed in the photo that there are some of the squeeze on splices in the circuit. Those things tend to corrode over time and increase resistance. If it is getting enough power to throw the solenoid guess it shouldn't matter. Was the solenoid throwing with the starter button? I like Ken's idea with the jumper wire for a test.
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Old 10-10-2014, 05:49 AM   #191
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Default Re: Yes, they are still out there NUMBER 2

I will try the ground wire direct to head as Ken asked, yes JSeery the solenoid did pickup with push button in dash. The problem was that the solenoid must have a weak coil or have bad contacts because the motor would either turn slower or I had to "plug" the button several times to get it to connect only to have it slowly turn or all at times turn very fast. I had checked resistance in past but using the small button on bottom of solenoid to close. JSeery the butt splices in photo are the temporary wiring I installed to eliminate original car wiring that was bare at most locations it terminated and 75 years of running spices and black tape repairs in engine compartment, thank you both for replies.

Last edited by Bruce in southern OH; 10-10-2014 at 05:34 PM. Reason: spelling
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Old 10-10-2014, 06:26 PM   #192
Bruce in southern OH
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Default Re: Yes, they are still out there NUMBER 2

I came home today and oiled speedometer again, tried the little piece of speedo cable, not much happened. Went down to Don P. garage today and he gave me a stub piece of speedocable. I chucked it in cordless drill. Had to hold on to speedo tight and I ran drill slow, watching gears as I turned. The needle did not move. I looked at the worm gear on side and looked in a bind. Backed drill up and forward, more oil on everything. I rocked small gears with my finger. Started drill again and looked to see if needle was moving and now it was, great but real stiff cable drive. Added more oil and sped up drill motor and held there for about 30 secs. This really helped, the speedo is so free now I can move cable with two fingers. I ran until the odometer recorded a mile. I think the little odometer wheels are/were stuck together. Anyway the speedo works and the odometer at least works, cannot set trip meter to zero??? The reason I went to DON P.'s was to fix my broken cooling fan assembly on the 39LZ engine. I have given up on the super adhesive, called the company Bill W. suggested and they wanted $105.00 for the material. Not a guarantee it would work and lots of prep work involved. Next Don and I studied the Ken in Alabama suggestion of placing a couple of nice welds on back of hub, we shot that down. Next we decided to drill hub and fan assembly and tap the hub. This worked out well and I will install tomorrow. I came back from Don's and media blasted the fan assembly and painted. THANKS DON FOR THE HELP!!!!
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Lay out of holes to drill
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Two parts pressed together so we could drill smaller hole to tap, next photo of larger hole for bolt to pass through
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Drilling hub
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Don P. tapping the fan assembley
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Complete, next I media blasted and painted
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Old 10-11-2014, 08:26 PM   #193
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Default Re: Yes, they are still out there NUMBER 2

Took the 39 LZ to two car cruise ins today, one of them was about 10 miles one way from home. It was the Chesapeake OHIO Fall Fest, very few cars because of rain last night and looked like rain this morning. Lot of people interested in the car because original car and the V12 engine. Returned home at 3:00pm and loaded car up to take to the last Cruise In of year at Wheelersburg, OHIO (Halloween Cruise In ) . Had to trailer because of out of round tires shake car, about 45 miles from home one way. Same thing, everyone interested in car because of old untouched look and V12. Lots of older men said they had pictures/seen photos of V12 engine but never seen in person, everyone loved the interior and could not believe the Zephyr shifter handle on transmission. Had a good time, dark here at about 7:15.
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Don P. beside the LZ
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That is me beside the LZ
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Old 10-22-2014, 07:43 AM   #194
Bruce in southern OH
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Default Re: Yes, they are still out there NUMBER 2

Got my new USA made tires Monday, removed old tires and I am painting the rims. Also repaired my speedo cable, I had speedo cable and we salvaged the two ends and placed on new cable. ( saved 125 dollars plus, that is what speedo repair shop listed here on Fordbarn quoted a price plus shipping both ways, ouch!!!) Wanted to travel to Georgia this weekend but car not ready, maybe to the 2015 bash?
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speedo end of cable
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Columbia axle end, 165.5 inches long
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Original Rim strips for the record
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New Lester WW 700 X 16 tires
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Old 10-22-2014, 08:08 AM   #195
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Default Re: Yes, they are still out there NUMBER 2

Bruce, that's excellent, glad you are having fun with the LZ. Hopefully we'll finish mine up after we get back from the Moonshine Festival, I miss driving her.
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Old 10-22-2014, 07:56 PM   #196
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Default Re: Yes, they are still out there NUMBER 2

Guard dog,,,,!,,,,,,,,
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Old 10-24-2014, 07:01 PM   #197
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Default Re: Yes, they are still out there NUMBER 2

Got new tires on car today, took car out for a test run with new tires and speedo hooked up for first time, ran car up to full scale on speedo, (100mph) pulled car over and disconnected the speedo, did not want to damage the speedo by running past the max on face of speedo. Everything is smooth, even placed in forth gear twice, ( neutral and down hill ) smooth and just wind noise, good to have new tires.
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Removing blue dye material off of tires, also blasted and painted rims with single stage black paint. Will add the three silver rings on rims at a later date.
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Old 10-26-2014, 06:17 AM   #198
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Default Re: Yes, they are still out there NUMBER 2

New tires on car, went to October Fest in Ceredo, WV. almost 200 cars on a very nice day. New tires and painted rims really made the car.
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Old 10-28-2014, 03:18 PM   #199