Go Back   The Ford Barn > General Discussion > Model A (1928-31)

Sponsored Links (Register now to hide all advertisements)

Reply
 
Thread Tools Display Modes
Old 10-06-2014, 11:44 AM   #1
Terry,NJ
Senior Member
 
Terry,NJ's Avatar
 
Join Date: Nov 2013
Location: Northern Bucks Co. Pa
Posts: 632
Default Running hot + frustration

Well, here I am again! With a new problem of the week! This is my 30 coupe I'm talking about. Let's see, I've rebuilt the Transmisson, the clutch, the manifolds (Ground) B carb on and B carb off, (Wouldn't idle right) Front end, king pin, perches, bushings, changed the engine and then changed it back. Hyd brakes. Rebuilt the Steering box. Yeah, everything's much better but when does it quit? The latest issue is it overheats. It never did that before. Now it does that. I checked the oil for water and it looks good, pure petro. And it only seems to do it going up hills. We've got a lot of hills around here.
I was so glad that it kept cool on the hills. Now it heats up. I've tried different settings with the timing, no change in result. I should say that when I changed the engine about a year ago, I "vinegared" the radiator and it caused a couple of small leaks. I tried sealing them with a half a jar of Barrs leak, it sort of worked, but not as well as I would have liked. Any suggestions?
Terry

Last edited by Terry,NJ; 10-06-2014 at 02:50 PM.
Terry,NJ is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 10-06-2014, 11:53 AM   #2
tbirdtbird
BANNED
 
Join Date: May 2012
Location: inside your RAM
Posts: 3,134
Default Re: Running hot + frustration

"a half a car of Barrs leak"
half a car? or half a cup?

Could be too much sealer and clogged your tubes.

Put ball in lower neck. Fill with H2O. Yank ball should drain in less than 4 secs elese clogged.

Use IR temp gun should have 30* diff from top to bottom.

Be certain base timing is dead on; late timing the engine will run hot as hell.

Going up hill do not retard timing all the way, only about 1/2 way
__________________
'31 180A
tbirdtbird is offline   Reply With Quote
Sponsored Links (Register now to hide all advertisements)
Old 10-06-2014, 12:33 PM   #3
Mitch//pa
BANNED
 
Join Date: May 2010
Location: Bucks County, PA
Posts: 11,454
Default Re: Running hot + frustration

the 4 second rule blows....
the ir as mentioned or just a feel with the hand would be better...
terry sounds like it is possibly radiator time,
if you need one i have a good used one from my lucy restoration. i didnt use it because it had a small repair on the tubes which can be seen from the front but the car never ran hot previously using it...

Last edited by Mitch//pa; 10-06-2014 at 12:54 PM.
Mitch//pa is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 10-06-2014, 12:54 PM   #4
J Franklin
Senior Member
 
J Franklin's Avatar
 
Join Date: May 2010
Location: oregon
Posts: 3,642
Default Re: Running hot + frustration

Is there a thermostat? Is the spark timing advanced enough? Good luck in your hunt
J Franklin is online now   Reply With Quote
Old 10-06-2014, 01:08 PM   #5
Chuck Sea/Tac
Senior Member
 
Chuck Sea/Tac's Avatar
 
Join Date: May 2010
Location: Between Seattle & Tacoma
Posts: 1,688
Default Re: Running hot + frustration

Let's say the fan went through the radiator, so 6 or so tubes were pinched off. Now , do your flow test, wow, 4 seconds flat, must be a good radiator?
The only way I see that flow test would be accurate, is
1) you know how much water the radiator holds and see if it will hold that amount and come out within the spec time??
2) who came up with this 4 sec emptying number?
The best way is to come up with a flow test of gallons per minute, and see if it matches the 38 gpm spec I've seen listed, assuming that number is correct.
Or take it to a radiator shop that can determine the true condition of the radiator.
Chuck Sea/Tac is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 10-06-2014, 02:18 PM   #6
Brentwood Bob
Senior Member
 
Join Date: May 2010
Location: brentwood, ca
Posts: 2,812
Default Re: Running hot + frustration

The most important part of the emptying in 4 seconds test in my opinion would be seeing the radiator empty in a gush. No hesitation, no meek gurgling, but a manly gush.
I am wondering why the car ran good in the hills for a year and then developed the overheating.
I hope you retorqued the head, and have an intact head gasket. With the vinegar treatment could a crack in the block reappear?
reset the points, inspect the wear block, and then retime the motor.

Also check the intake and exhaust manifold to block bolts.

Bob
Brentwood Bob is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 10-06-2014, 02:30 PM   #7
Mike V. Florida
Senior Member
 
Mike V. Florida's Avatar
 
Join Date: May 2010
Location: South Florida
Posts: 13,861
Send a message via AIM to Mike V. Florida
Default Re: Running hot + frustration

My vote is timing. What are you doing with the spark advance when climbing hills?
__________________
What's right about America is that although we have a mess of problems, we have great capacity - intellect and resources - to do some thing about them. - Henry Ford II
Mike V. Florida is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 10-06-2014, 02:39 PM   #8
rusted
Member
 
Join Date: Dec 2011
Posts: 88
Default Re: Running hot + frustration

My car would do the same thing! Everything was good except going up hills. Every hill it would puke water. On one outing I set the spark advance at 9:30 instead of 8o. It hasn't done it since. I have run the car at 50 mph for an hour an maintained that speed going up hills that it used to spit a lot of water on and it hasn't done it since. Try retarding the timing just a little on the next hill and see if it makes a difference. Hope this helps
rusted is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 10-06-2014, 02:39 PM   #9
tbirdtbird
BANNED
 
Join Date: May 2012
Location: inside your RAM
Posts: 3,134
Default Re: Running hot + frustration

the 4-sec 'rule' seems to have struck a nerve. it comes from Bratton's catalogue. Next time you have a brandy new radiator on hand try it and get back to us. It is either empty in 4 secs or not. And if 6 tubes are blocked off you will know it and of course all bets are off
__________________
'31 180A

Last edited by tbirdtbird; 10-06-2014 at 03:23 PM.
tbirdtbird is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 10-06-2014, 02:53 PM   #10
newshirt
Senior Member
 
newshirt's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jan 2011
Location: Colorado Springs
Posts: 867
Default Re: Running hot + frustration

New juice brakes? Are they dragging? Jack up each wheel and check.
__________________
Ray White
newshirt is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 10-06-2014, 03:09 PM   #11
Terry,NJ
Senior Member
 
Terry,NJ's Avatar
 
Join Date: Nov 2013
Location: Northern Bucks Co. Pa
Posts: 632
Default Re: Running hot + frustration

Yeah Bob, I retorqued the head to 55 lbs 3 times. No cracks that I can see any evidence of. That was the first thing I thought of too. Nothing in the oil. The vinegar trick was recommended to me by FB members. I think it was a mistake, the tubes were too thin. Anyway, the Rad. and block were clean and as I said, it did not run hot then. A friend also mentioned the head gasket the engine also seems to have a miss. I put a new Copper gasket on it last year.
Terry



Quote:
Originally Posted by Brentwood Bob View Post
The most important part of the emptying in 4 seconds test in my opinion would be seeing the radiator empty in a gush. No hesitation, no meek gurgling, but a manly gush.
I am wondering why the car ran good in the hills for a year and then developed the overheating.
I hope you retorqued the head, and have an intact head gasket. With the vinegar treatment could a crack in the block reappear?
reset the points, inspect the wear block, and then retime the motor.

Also check the intake and exhaust manifold to block bolts.

Bob
Terry,NJ is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 10-06-2014, 05:08 PM   #12
Brentwood Bob
Senior Member
 
Join Date: May 2010
Location: brentwood, ca
Posts: 2,812
Default Re: Running hot + frustration

There has been some discussion of replacement points being unsatisfactory.
I read misfiring into this bit of information.
I would spend more time walking thru the primary and eliminate the misfiring.
As for the torquing of the head. I have problems with this on my huckster after more retightening than you have done. I had a bad #8 stud and the thing still likes to creep several years later.
I like the comment and advice of #8 above. I haven't tried hills yet, but I have read this before.
Bob
Brentwood Bob is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 10-06-2014, 07:46 PM   #13
neds29
Member
 
Join Date: Nov 2013
Location: Ahwatukee, AZ
Posts: 66
Default Re: Running hot + frustration

Back to the topic.....
It's the radiator. Barrs messed it up. Don't use it. Had a small leak on the radiator of my 1988 Landcruiser and used Barrs to try to fix it. I ended up buying a new radiator and new head for the engine after it cracked from overheating after using Barrs.
Lesson: Ban Barrs.
Ned
__________________
Retired civil engineer.
Winters in Phoenix, summers in Ipswich, Mass. and North Dakota.
'29 closed cab pickup- Excellent AZ truck.
'29 roadster- Owned for 21 years but now sold.
'28 CC pickup- My first car in Andover, MA back in '62- '63.
neds29 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 10-06-2014, 11:11 PM   #14
J Franklin
Senior Member
 
J Franklin's Avatar
 
Join Date: May 2010
Location: oregon
Posts: 3,642
Default Re: Running hot + frustration

I have never had a problem with Bars leak using it as per the directions on the can/bottle. They probably were one of the first commercial stop leak available to the automobilist.
J Franklin is online now   Reply With Quote
Old 10-07-2014, 12:01 AM   #15
Tom Wesenberg
Senior Member
 
Tom Wesenberg's Avatar
 
Join Date: May 2010
Location: Mpls, MN
Posts: 27,261
Default Re: Running hot + frustration

Quote:
Originally Posted by J Franklin View Post
I have never had a problem with Bars leak using it as per the directions on the can/bottle. They probably were one of the first commercial stop leak available to the automobilist.
Same here.
Tom Wesenberg is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 10-07-2014, 03:54 AM   #16
Allanw
Senior Member
 
Allanw's Avatar
 
Join Date: Oct 2012
Location: Whangarei, New Zealand
Posts: 298
Default Re: Running hot + frustration

We had similar - trundle around perfectly fine, in town or at speed - all OK.

But climb a hill of any length (which is half our driving)... water would spit out the overflow, and even dribble out the cap. Often it would even foam up (I use antifreeze).

We tried commercial radiator cleaner 3x and immense amounts of flushing - the colour of the stuff coming out was nasty... but it was the same when climbing a hill .

We took the radiator to an old school radiator shop in town, who removed the tanks, rodded everything out and kept the junk... there was easily 3/4 to 1 cup of crud in the container he collected it in!

Since then it's never done it again, and we've installed a 160F thermostat and gauge.

There is a VERY steep hill getting to a friends house: It has an elevation gain of 351 feet in just over 1000 yards (there are a couple of small downhills in there too!), with a peak gradient of 29% and lots of corners

Even after the fairly hilly and twisty coastal drive out there (well warmed up to the 160F thermostat temperature), It chugged up there with no temperature concerns in the peak of our humid summer! I was getting worried about how I was going to manage double clutching down into 1st gear while climbing the steepest part/corner - but we JUST managed to hold in second gear and the temp never climbed past 180F on the worst part with a lot of throttle at maybe 1000 RPM at a guess.

I'd recommend sorting the radiator really well
__________________
Allan
'29 Tudor, Canadian RHD
Whangarei, NZ
"Duct Tape can't fix stupid, but it can MUFFLE the sound"
Allanw is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 10-07-2014, 06:57 AM   #17
jmeckel
Senior Member
 
jmeckel's Avatar
 
Join Date: Sep 2011
Location: Luck WI
Posts: 549
Default Re: Running hot + frustration

The vinegar may have loosened up some grud that has now made its way to the radiator. I would bring the radiator into to a good old fashion radiator shop to be cleaned out and have them fix the two small leaks you talk about the right way.

I would also flush the engine very aggressively to get any loose grud out while the radiator is off being repaired.
__________________
Jon

"If you choose to not decide, you still have made a choice!" RUSH

Don't tell me what you know..... Tell me what you have done.
jmeckel is offline   Reply With Quote
Reply

Thread Tools
Display Modes

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off

Forum Jump

Sponsored Links (Register now to hide all advertisements)


All times are GMT -5. The time now is 07:56 PM.