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Old 02-18-2019, 09:19 PM   #1
RandyMettler
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Default Both 94s sinked at 20kg/h at idle

I can not get the kg/h below 20 or the car stalls. 20kg/h will open both 3.5 power valve at idle. My car goes through a gallon of gas in 15 minutes at idle. Starts easy when cold. Does not like to start even with only a couple of minutes of idling. I checked spark/good, but only with the sparkplug removed and cleaned. I checked fuel delivery/good. My plugs are soaked in gas. I have a 8BA, dual 94s 3.5 power valves, 47 jets, non progressive linkage, new air filters, new plugs, new plug wires, crab ignition just serviced, valve lash just set, just installed a fuel pressure regulator, just installed a Charlie Ny fuel pump, just rebuilt my 94s. I am guessing my power valves are functioning as designed. Why 20kg/h at idle? Turning my crab left or right seam to have no effect on idle. Turning my idle mixture screws in and out has no effect what so ever unless I turn them all the way in. I unscrewed the intake manifold plug to relieve the vacuum pressure. That did not have any effect on the snail readings, only made the car backfire. It has to be something simple? I can stand by the motor and hear the 94s sucking air, way too much, but I am probable mistaken.

Regards

Last edited by RandyMettler; 02-19-2019 at 07:28 PM.
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Old 02-18-2019, 10:23 PM   #2
Flathead Fever
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Default Re: Both 94s sinked at 20kg/h at idle

Your back. That's no good, your washing the oil off the cylinder walls and contaminating your oil. You probably have a power valve leaking. With the engine off open the throttle plates all the way and look down in there to see if the fuel is leaking into the intake manifold.
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Old 02-18-2019, 10:24 PM   #3
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Default Re: Both 94s sinked at 20kg/h at idle

Did Charlie also rebuild the 94's, or just the fuel pump?
In any case:
1) check the fuel pressure. Anything over 3 psi might be pushing by the float valves and flooding the engine.
2) one of the float valves may not be sealing properly; a bit of debris from installation could be the problem. Remove them and blow some carb cleaner through them. Or better, replace them with the Grosse type (steel ball instead of pointy needle piece)
3) one of the floats set too high. Unlike 97's, setting floats on 94s is tricky business.

Report back.
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Old 02-18-2019, 10:34 PM   #4
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Default Re: Both 94s sinked at 20kg/h at idle

drolston,

Thank you for your input. This had been happening since I purchased the car. I have rebuilt the 94s twice. I have installed a fuel pressure regulator and set it at 1 psi, no change. The float power valves are definitely not sealing, the vacuum pressure is holding them wide open at idle. This is all just what I have learned from the help of all you barners out there and my tests.
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Old 02-18-2019, 10:37 PM   #5
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Default Re: Both 94s sinked at 20kg/h at idle

I'm confused, previous thread you said you got it worked out? Not so?
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Old 02-18-2019, 10:40 PM   #6
RandyMettler
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Default Re: Both 94s sinked at 20kg/h at idle

Flathead fever, yah the garage reeks of raw gas. I am sure the power valves are open but cannot figure out why my vacuum/airflow readings are almost pegged? It has to be obvious with these symptom's but I don't know.
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Old 02-18-2019, 10:45 PM   #7
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Default Re: Both 94s sinked at 20kg/h at idle

Tinker;

"I'm confused, previous thread you said you got it worked out? Not so?"



Last night it was idling great and carbs sinked at 20. The revees were smooth, but understand, I only test for a short period of time. Hoa's, aging neighbors that are always home and duals glass packs and a flathead (loud). I believe Gas turns everything to XXXX after running for a few minutes.
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Old 02-18-2019, 10:49 PM   #8
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Default Re: Both 94s sinked at 20kg/h at idle

As mentioned check pv's, float settings, or your needle seating.



...or buy a couple 97s. and get them setup for duals


Could run a single 94 till you get one sorted out then move to two. New engine and managing two carburetors can be tough. Get it running then upgrade.


or not. Just a suggestion.



quote" I only test for a short period of time. Hoa's, aging neighbors that are always home and duals glass packs and a flathead (loud). I believe Gas turns everything to XXXX after running for a few minutes."


Had a 4hp witte oil field throttler that sounded like a shotgun going off every time it fire. At the time I lived downtown, so I threw a couple tractor mufflers on it. Lucky I had one neighbor that like the sound of v8s/engines.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=YsVnPdRjCU4







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Old 02-18-2019, 11:06 PM   #9
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Default Re: Both 94s sinked at 20kg/h at idle

What is this (20kg/h) reading you are getting and how does it translate to the common (in.-Hg) or (mm-Hg)?
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Old 02-18-2019, 11:09 PM   #10
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Default Re: Both 94s sinked at 20kg/h at idle

":I can not get the kg/h below 20 or the car stalls". To me this indicates that the motor is tying to compensate for the tremendous amount of gas that is going down the carbs. The stalling when I mechanically reduce the rpms by closing the throttle plates and attempt to reduce air flow is a result of the plugs being soaked it gas/ engine stall. I could be wrong, new at flatheads
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Old 02-18-2019, 11:11 PM   #11
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Default Re: Both 94s sinked at 20kg/h at idle

See Bruce's post#6
https://www.jalopyjournal.com/forum/...ziness.971853/
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Old 02-18-2019, 11:14 PM   #12
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Default Re: Both 94s sinked at 20kg/h at idle

51 MERC-CT
"What is this (20kg/h) reading you are getting and how does it translate to the common (in.-Hg) or (mm-Hg)?"


It translates mathematically to in-Hg slightly less than 4 times than what I am reading. So mathematically speaking, I am running 5 times more air down my horns than ford designed. This will pull fuel out of the carbs as needed. Pure suction/vacuum, I believe the mechanics that keep the engine from reeving high as it should, is the carbs pouring the fuel down the cylinders.

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Old 02-18-2019, 11:16 PM   #13
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Default Re: Both 94s sinked at 20kg/h at idle

That's without linkage and butterflies closed?


Send your carbs off.
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Old 02-18-2019, 11:29 PM   #14
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Default Re: Both 94s sinked at 20kg/h at idle

I had to sink the carbs. In order to do that the throttle plates had to be adjusted slightly opened to balance air and fuel. The carbs would not sink otherwise, I believe the power valves are also wide open due to the air flow meter readings feeding the engine, this is with the linkage off as suggested. They should sink at 4 not 20. This is because the carbs are sucking so much air. When I try to restrict the air the engine stalls, too much fuel. I believe it is not a carb issue, it is something much worse.

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Old 02-18-2019, 11:34 PM   #15
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Default Re: Both 94s sinked at 20kg/h at idle

Well a combustion engine is really just an air pump.


You have something going on I guess. Look forward to your progress.


Best of luck!




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Old 02-19-2019, 01:05 AM   #16
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Default Re: Both 94s sinked at 20kg/h at idle

1 psi from pressure regulator verified by a gauge? “Turning crab”? What kind of air filters? Mike
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Old 02-19-2019, 01:16 AM   #17
RandyMettler
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Default Re: Both 94s sinked at 20kg/h at idle

Mike in AZ, in response to your help
"1 psi from pressure regulator verified by a gauge? “Turning crab”? What kind of air filters? Mike"

I have a fuel pressure regulator. I have it set 3.5 psi. I have turned it as low as 1 psi with no change. My "crab", is my distributor, it is a crab style not typical for 8BA'S. I have the typical cheap dual 94 air filter and are both new. The key thing here is my engine has abnormal sucking sucking sound. It will almost break your hand if you cover one of the carbs. Both carbs will almost break your hands if covered.
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Old 02-19-2019, 07:57 AM   #18
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Default Re: Both 94s sinked at 20kg/h at idle

Randy, I had a EAB running dual 94's and Charlie NY advised me to plug off the Power Valves. He has machined PV plugs for this purpose. After doing so I was able to balance the carbs with a Uni-sync. I know vacuum is a finer adjustment but didn't have a gauge. Also found that the teapot air filters I originally had would cause the engine to "choke out" and stop. Went to just air horns (?) with screens and thin foam filter and all worked out great.
I would ask him his advice. Charlie's e-mail= CAS5845@Yahoo.com
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Old 02-19-2019, 03:15 PM   #19
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Default Re: Both 94s sinked at 20kg/h at idle

All I can say is you will be better off if you find someone to set up your carbs that has done it before. Your 20 kg/h at idle has nothing to do with manifold vacuum (hg). If kg/h is what the unisync measures, and is pegged on the high side, the only way to reduce it is to back off on the speed screws on the carbs, not the two mixture screws.
I'm pretty confident the power valves are not open at idle. It is possible the small diaphragms in them are ruptured and leaking though.


Sal
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Old 02-19-2019, 03:47 PM   #20
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Default Re: Both 94s sinked at 20kg/h at idle

Quote:
Originally Posted by scicala View Post
All I can say is you will be better off if you find someone to set up your carbs that has done it before. Your 20 kg/h at idle has nothing to do with manifold vacuum (hg). If kg/h is what the unisync measures, and is pegged on the high side, the only way to reduce it is to back off on the speed screws on the carbs, not the two mixture screws.
I'm pretty confident the power valves are not open at idle. It is possible the small diaphragms in them are ruptured and leaking though.


Sal
Sal,
I think he's using the uni-sync to adjust flow rate through the carbs, therefore it's measuring kilogram/hour. When adjusting the mixture you would monitor manifold vacuum, right?


Mike
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