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Old 02-15-2016, 08:33 PM   #41
moefuzz
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Default Re: Flathead smoke

Quote:
Originally Posted by Joe Immler View Post

moe,

I was involved with the National Fire Protection Association standards for fire apparatus safety when I was general manager for a fire apparatus manufacturer.
I know how these standards evolve.


Joe,
I am/was fully aware of your American Fire Fighters stand.
Thank You,
I was a Volunteer Fireman some 50 years back.

Last edited by moefuzz; 02-22-2016 at 02:58 AM.
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Old 02-15-2016, 11:55 PM   #42
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Default Re: Flathead smoke

Thanks for the info moefuzz. I hear people bashing regulations every day and I finally have given up on trying to educate them. Now we have a number of political candidates bashing regulations while at the same time chastising the EPA for not enforcing them in Flint, Michigan. That's our world. I think most of our steel these days comes from China. Of course we can trust them.
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Old 02-16-2016, 02:37 AM   #43
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Default Re: Flathead smoke

Ok Moefuzz i get where you going but keep the facts straight.
Talking about smelling radiation and PCB in the steel...wow...if we could smell radiation it would be easy to avoid it !
And swedens law enforcement when it comes to driving without license being weak...i wish they had some humour..
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Old 02-16-2016, 05:49 PM   #44
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Default Re: Flathead smoke

Quote:
Originally Posted by flapheadmurre View Post
swedens law enforcement weak...

..






Flatmurre,
For some reason you seem to think that the village elders are always pulling your leg?

I am not kidding about the PCBs or the Isotopes.
It happens still to this day around the world.


.

It was common practice to fire asphalt paving plants with contaminated oil
in USA/Canada up into the 1990's

Hands up anybody who has driven on a North American Paved Road?

..When the asphalt was being mixed in the large rotating cylinders at the gravel pit,
Only the choicest of highly contaminated PCP or isotope oil was used, usually because it could be had for cheap or free.

....The PCBs are commonly found in Electrical transformers found on top of Power poles.

When those enclosed oil filled "Cans" are replaced, for what ever reason,
They had to drain them before they could scrap the steel.



--===========================--


Up until the 80's 90's there was little to no place that could safely handle or
recover the PCBs from the oil.

Many small/local hometown refineries could handle the millions of gallons of used oil from the local gas station or lube joint but in the process of
recovering used engine oil,

many millions of gallons of water/antifreeze and contaminants would be separated and stored into large (and mostly old well worn/used) million gallon storage tanks.



The
PCP Laden oil from your local electrical utilities power pole mounted
pcp oil filled transformers
almost always ended up in that old , decrepit, large, leaky, 50 foot tall,
Half a Million Gallon storage tank




In every dry hole,
in every town,
i
n every city,

in Togo land, In Poland,
In Sweden,
In the USA,
In the World,

(r
inse repeat -et el)















Free! Free! FREE!



FREE!
FREE!



-T
o Every Paving Contractor It Was
FREE!





(...the fine print)...
Free (With The Addition Of 4O0 other Hard to Get Rid of Contaminates
*,







(Don't Tell Al Gore)


--====================--






Oil and Regulations/API continued,
Page 2 Flathead Forum
, Feb 2016 moe/c:/jmho/
Oli and oil Contaminants underlying issues

Oil
......In paving a highway, of course the first stage is to build a nice level and wide road path from gravel.
Once you have the gravel road straight and level, the next step is to put down
'tack oil'.


This tack oil came straight out of those million gallon contaminated tanks and was spread onto the top of the gravel
for 2 reasons:

-1ST) to shed water from the newly constructed and compacted gravel base
(rain happens during construction which ruins your gravel base, ruined job).

-Secondly) , the 'tack oil' is just that, it helps the gravel road base adhere to the newly laid asphalt as they go about laying down the pavement.

Every road receives several layers of asphalt,
A base coat, A top coat with sometimes a mid coat or two.

Each fresh layer of base or mid coat received another layer of tack oil in order that yesterdays fresh layer adhered to today's new top coat of asphalt.




-> So not only was the asphalt in the asphalt plant fired and mixed with PCBs and isotopes
so was the tack coat laden with contaminants along every inch of road in every town city county state USA North America World.
everywhere.
.





--====================================--





In the steel mill, heat is required to melt the scrap steel into a molten slurry.
Heat is applied in two forms, electricity or oil fired flame.

Because of the high heat required to turn scrap iron into molten metal,
the steel mill was always thought of as "the perfect place"
to rid your local home town oil refinery/recovery/recycler of that
huge old tank of contaminated oils,
often for free, ..maybe for little cost, or maybe even just for a backward handshake.


It just Makes sense to the steel mill that
They could either run the mill on expensive electricity/clean/gas/oil,
or they could fire ~ all ~ or ~ maybe ~ some of ~ certain parts ~

free/oil.




--==================--



Isotopes don't burn up in an asphalt plant or in a steel mill.

In an asphalt plant, the radio active and PCP contaminated oil is incorporated into the freshly mixed liquid asphalt and delivered to the paving machine -on the highway- at no less than 145 degrees F,

It is still liquid at 145 degrees in that it will 'pour' out of the back of the dump truck and into the paving machine.
-And It is still oily to the touch before it cools and hardens...

...Once the asphalt is laid, rolled flat and cooled, the contaminated oil becomes entrapped into the hard road bed.
Sort of.



------------------------------------------------------------------------



In the steel mill, not only do you have the contaminated oil firing many stages of the mill, You also have the contaminated scrap metals from things like PCB oil cooled transformers being randomly thrown into the mix.

In fact, to this day, in certain* countries around the world,
the transformers are not even drained of oil
before they go in to the shredder stage prior to smelting.
.




To further aggravate the problem, All the 'New' fresh steel coming out the other end of the steel mill,
is coated with a protective spray of mill scale or cheap oil based coatings to prevent it from rusting between the mill and the manufacturer.

Many forms of protective coating are used including shellacs, oils and scales.
Little concern is made as to what oil is used to mix and coat fresh steels.
In America, Until about the mid 90's, radioactive isotopes and PCPs were still
'free' to use as steel mill saw fit.




Furthermore, When someone welds those contaminated steels together, it releases the contaminates as the steel briefly returns to a molten state.

As the adjacent metal heats up, the temperatures rise enough to burn the coatings and oils off the heat effected zone and lift it into the air were it is easily ingested.

As a heavy smoke, you inhale it, and eventually it makes you sick upon which you are diagnosed as you yourself having being exposed to contaminates over your life. .



....Just as in the American Petro Industry,
-It is the same as/in the American Highrise industry,

And This is why steel from certain countries is written into the contract for things like
new highrise buildings or oil refinery skids/building/platforms as "NO STEEL FROM CHINA, CZECHOSLOVAKIA, SWEDEN, BELARUS" etc., (-and it Is printed in bold caps in a contract).

Irregardless of Foreign/Europeans attempting to fly aircraft into them.








----==================================----






In the oil industry, It has probably been 20+ years since the strong stand on contaminated and PCP coated steel was fully implemented.



I'll bet you any amount of money that the
Steel Recovered From The World Trade Center
would not pass code today.
-In the 60's 70's, It was made/contaminated when contamination was the norm. Isotopes are entrapped inside the beam and PCPs are coated on the skin.






--======================--


Quote:
Originally Posted by flapheadmurre View Post
swedens law enforcement weak...

..



Flatheadmurre, it is easy for today's youth to think that they known it all and anything else is to be questioned and/or thrown out as bullshit.

The knowledge that your father or grandfather absorbed is still somewhere stuck in your fore fathers head. Unfortunately,
it is easily forgotten and the news articles and/or contracts that had to be signed /followed are long gone. .....

But the truth is, history was written years before today's youth question or dismiss it. And history is written only by those that have encountered problems or catastrophe after the fact that things were done on the cheap or to save time/money.

Consider This:


In 1995, the International Nuclear Information System (INIS) finally recognized a world wide industry problem.

https://inis.iaea.org/search/search...._q=RN:27005549

Findings 1995;
"For nearly 40 years, few people paid any attention to the topic of radioactivity in steel. However, that changed in Feb. 1983, when Auburn Steel had the unfortunate occasion to melt a radioactive source in their electric furnace. Since that time, there has been a total of 18 confirmed meltings at metal smelters within the US. The problem of melting radioactive sources in metal smelting plants appears to be increasing. It is not known if a trend is developing or if 1992/1993 are random anomalies. Based on past incidents, the difficulty of finding heavily shielded sources in scrap and the likelihood of more gaging devices being lost, steel making management must evaluate the importance of achieving high sensitivity."


.


That's why in North America
we have a licensing organization like API.

:It protects me from driving on, or from being a laborer on PCP asphalt laden roads.

:It protects my wife from working inside office towers that radiate contaminates like PCBs and isotopes.

:It protects office workers from being crushed by buildings that come down easily due to a mild catastrophe.








--===================--



America has a large 'wall' of regulations around it that protect those inside.
Outside of that wall, other countries do what they want.

The wall of regulation prevents other countries from flooding the market with cheap/contaminated products whether it is Polish 'Aunty-Wine',
Chinese lead loaded toothpaste or Poland's bonus built PCP coated steel.




The wall of regulation ensures quality American produced products are built and placed into operation around the world including land sea and air.


The API, That one particular council that we here are concerned with,
also protects consumers from being sold
cheap engine oil hidden behind expensive looking labels.



Which If I get your point,
happens in Sweden all the time.







.

Last edited by moefuzz; 02-22-2016 at 04:31 AM.
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Old 02-16-2016, 06:41 PM   #45
moefuzz
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Default Re: Flathead smoke

Quote:
Originally Posted by MDC View Post
Thanks for the info moefuzz. I hear people bashing regulations every day and I finally have given up on trying to educate them. Now we have a number of political candidates bashing regulations while at the same time chastising the EPA for not enforcing them in Flint, Michigan. That's our world. I think most of our steel these days comes from China. Of course we can trust them.

Well, there is certainly no shortage of people willing to jump on the 'bash this' campaign with absolutely no clue as to what they are talking about.
The sad part is that it is money that drives professional bashers and activists to bash Flint today, The shale oil tomorrow, and the lack of gay and lesbian rights on Thursday.

Up here in Canada, our national news agency, The CBC is blatantly obvious of supporting Muslim, Sikh and Indian peoples in order to help garner and support votes for the Liberal Party who in turn throw huge amounts of tax based funds at the government funded news agency/CBC TV Radio/ Broadcast and Print.



Perhaps this isn't the place for it but the out going government wished to deport convicted terrorists and revoke their Canadian citizenship..

But They were defeated by the Liberal government with the youth focused campaign of
"we'll legalize pot" and now they are in office
undoing the legislation absolutely required for
deportation and stripping of
convicted terrorists and foreign nationalist.




More importantly in 2016, they are allowing 100,000+ initial Muslim immigrants into our border without doing any real substantial background checks.

I support Your Republican Candidate for firing shots across the bow of the Mexican and Muslim immigrants and
if I could, I would advise this Republican Presidential Candidate that the USA - Canada border Also needs a wall to help protect Americans form the influx of millions of
European and/or 'Arabic' peoples who have been allowed into our country in order to garner and pander to the immigrant vote.

I am an American ex patriot.





God Bless,
God Bless America.
God Bless not having to Blatantly lie to each other in the name of being
"Politically Correct"




.

Last edited by moefuzz; 02-22-2016 at 04:43 AM.
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Old 02-16-2016, 06:54 PM   #46
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Default Re: Flathead smoke

[QUOTE=petehoovie;1242392]
Quote:
Originally Posted by moefuzz View Post
But in America, things are licensed and people are held accountable.

Except for people in government....

I think that is a world problem
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Old 02-19-2016, 09:47 PM   #47
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Default Re: Flathead smoke

at most 1000 miles then i went to synthetic.
My pretty knowledgeable friend says break in oil should be for at least 800 miles. i put in quart of Lucas pure petroleum oil and 4 quarts of 30 weight non detergent...it seems to smoke alot less now, but not 100% clear. I'll keep on driving and see how it goes. The motor never has lost performance, and it doesnt smoke on the highway.Just smokes as it builds combustion / switching gears or revving.
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Old 02-20-2016, 01:09 AM   #48
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Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by Bored&Stroked View Post
Me, I run straight break-in oil until I know the rings are seated . . . then I switch over to whatever oil I'll run for the long term. Back in the day, we ran non-detergent 30 weight for the first 500 miles or so, then switched over to a multi-viscosity oil . . .
AHA! Note that "back in the day" engines were broken in with non-detergent oil. Did you know that non-detergent oil didn't have any zinc in it? And the camshafts did not go flat? How can that be?? Nowadays the 'experts' say you must have high zinc oil or your flathead will die!
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Old 02-20-2016, 04:13 AM   #49
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Default Re: Flathead smoke

Quote:
Originally Posted by 40 Deluxe View Post
AHA! Note that "back in the day" engines were broken in with non-detergent oil. Did you know that non-detergent oil didn't have any zinc in it? And the camshafts did not go flat?
How can that be?? Nowadays the 'experts' say you must have high zinc oil or your flathead will die!

Yes 40 Deluxe, you raise a very good point,
Many would wonder the same thing. This is a problem.


?
Hands up here anybody that has "lost" the lobes on their Flathead Cam?

Anybody??
How many of the hundreds of millions of camshaft failures have been on a Ford?
On A Flathead? A Banger? A 302? A 460?
On a Mopar?
On A Packard?
On a Tucker?

On Jack Benny's Maxwell?


How Many?


?





Not Many.



....How Many have been on a SBC?
100,000,000 ? since the introduction of the ohv six in 193X?
And then continued with the sbc especially hard since ~1975~?
And BBC was not immune?

Well,
If I were to do some math I would probably find
that Jack Benny, His Maxwell
and 100 Million Fords, Hudsons, Tuckers and Mopars generally

did not have any strange -non warranty- cam failures.

?


===============================



As you correctly pointed out,

-> The entire industry is painted with a broad brush and nobody,
No not even GM,
is going to tell you that of all the worlds car owners,
all ~1 Billion for 85+ years,
only GM owners have experienced continual and on going ?problematic?
cam failures.

And the cu$tomer ha$ alway$ paid




Well, That's if they didn't wish to walk.


but that's another story.




Quote:
Originally Posted by 40 Deluxe View Post

AHA!
the 'experts' say you must have high zinc oil or your flathead will die!


Good Observation Mr 40 Deluxe.





.

Last edited by moefuzz; 02-22-2016 at 04:45 AM.
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Old 02-20-2016, 04:39 AM   #50
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Default Re: Flathead smoke

Quote:
Originally Posted by guy1unico View Post

-at most 1000 miles then i went to synthetic.
.Just smokes as it builds combustion / switching gears or revving.


Guy1,
There is no harm in coming off the break in (non detergent) oil and running a quality none synthetic oil for a few thousand miles (and don't pussy foot during break in, make it work).

Sometimes, compression- rings etc are not fully ready at 1000 or 5000 miles. (Especially if you don't work it)

What a person has to know is that putting synthetic oil in an engine is akin to turning the wear, the seating,
the break in -almost totally off.


If your engine/wear/seating,
is not ready to be "turned off",
Then don't get into synthetic oil until the job is done.
Run regular oils, Chevron Delo or Rotella T or T3 or Lucas etc.
after you've drained the break in oil. (and work it)


=================================


One of the easiest places to find break in oil is at your local John Deere Dealer.

John Deere states that engines can take up to 300+ hours of work (work!) to properly seat.

-Nowhere do I read that Your newly rebuilt 600 foot pound of torque JD or Caterpillar Tractor engine is:

:Not Supposed To do any actual Work
in the first 300 hours or 18,000 miles.
which ever comes first.
:And/or a fresh performance engine should not be put on a dyno at 6500 rpm after 30 minutes run in.


Truth is, many times engines are rebuilt on site and nobody babies them,
Not John Deere, Not Cat, and hopefully not Jack Benny.

-(Each oil has it's advantages and engines need to be worked).



jmho
.
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