radiator blues

[larry harding]

my radiator was leaking a little and the steel mounting band had come loose. the radiator shop says the core is shot (in only eighty years???) and they can recore it for $400.00 + or it is $600 + for a new one from the suppliers. I've only had this project for three weeks and it's already a money pit. unless you guys have a better suggestion i'll have to decide what I'm going to do(besides cry).

[loubob]

You just have to either "play with the cards you were dealt" or "fold them."
I paid top $$ for my coupe 2 years ago(1st time A owner) and spent $4200+ so far.
I will never get my $$ back but I never bought the car with that in mind. We're here only once.............................................. ..........Loubob

[burner31]

You can get get a better deal, shop around for radiator shops, try some that do diesel trucks, they get a kick out of model A's.

But LouBob is right.

[BILL WILLIAMSON]

Originally Posted by loubob

You just have to either "play with the cards you were dealt" or "fold them."
I paid top $$ for my coupe 2 years ago(1st time A owner) and spent $4200+ so far.
I will never get my $$ back but I never bought the car with that in mind. We're here only once.............................................. ..........Loubob

I can feel your pain, Loubob,
There's HUNDREDS & HUNDREDS & HUNDREDS of "MONEY PIT" Model A's for sale out "there"
ALWAYS buy local & have a better chance to get history & documentation on a car.
FIRST THING TO KNOW IS WHY?? THEY ARE SELLING THE CAR.
Barn Finds are usually old worn out TRAPS!!!
Same as ME, I look GOOD in a PIC, but I'm a MONEY PIT, also
Bill W.

[Tom Wesenberg]

What year radiator? 1928-9 is shorter than the 1930-1. You might find a good used one, but that is a gamble as to how good it really is. Id recore it and used your original tanks and frame. It might be worth a call to Bert's in Denver to see what they have. 800-321-1931

[H. L. Chauvin]

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Hi Larry,

As far as a leaking radiator, and: "unless you guys have a better suggestion"

FWIW:

Just one suggestion: Lots of 80+ year old radiators are still in service which can still handle water without leaking ........ and ........ also lots of 80+ year old guys are still in service who can still handle water without leaking.

Now .......... try taking several 80+ year old guys to a doctor, and maybe over half will be recommended for expensive surgery ....... but, sometimes, could this same thing happen with 80 year old radiators?

It is slightly possible that you may find a radiator person who admires old radiators, and feels as though restoring your vintage Model A radiator is a challenge rather than an opportunity to obtain a lump sum of cash?

Sometimes second opinions are helpful in all situations ....... no matter who or what has a water flow problem.

The answer for an inexpensive repair will always "NO" ....... until you ask.

[larry harding]

the shop I went to is the only one close by that still repairs radiators. I had never dealt with them before but knew other members of his family, I think he is an honest guy. he immediately had to show me his 192? buick street rod and 50"s ford pickup with hot chevy engine. we wound up talking cars and motorcycles for 30 minutes. maybe his quote is high, but I don't know of anyone else locally that actually does radiator repair. i'm going to mikes tomorrow on my way to Birmingham ala. to pick up some a parts. if I buy a new rad. at least I will save shipping. i'll have to decide on recore or new by then.

[BRENT in 10-uh-C]

Originally Posted by larry harding

I've only had this project for three weeks and it's already a money pit.

Not to kick dirt on a Man when he is down, but I seem to recall a recent conversation where you stated you did not want to have more in fixing up your truck than what it would be worth when you sold it, ...and I told you that based on my experiences you had better stop now. I trust you can begin to see where I was coming from when I offered that advice.

Please do not feel like you are alone in this because I often see this same situation play out with other new hobbyists. Folks will 'pass' on purchasing a $25k Model-A because everyone here tells them that is too much $$ and so they buy a pretty one for $10k instead. The next thing you know, the radiator doesn't cool, the gas tank is rusty, the engine starts leaking oil from the rear main, the brakes are shot, the transmission whines and the rear end roars ( -only on deceleration though! ), ...and by the time they factor in the repairs and the newly-induced stress, they are at, --or have exceeded the price of the Model-A that all the "armchair appraisers" said was too much.

My attitude is just like the others, spend what you can honestly afford and have fun on the journey. Stop when it is no longer fun. And, BTW, let me look around and see what I have in the way of a used radiator. What region of NC are you in?

[Big hammer]

Years ago I took my radiator to a shop and asked them do you know about A radiators they said yes. When I picked it up they said they fixed most of the leaks, at 15 psi. I almost blew a radiator fuse, 4or 5 psi presure IMO would have been good for a non-presure system.

[Mitch//pa]

this could be a blessing in disguise if your radiator never leaked, it most likely does not have full flow . you would have been running it hotter then it should have been as most old rad's dont have the proper flow. unless you know the radiator shop very well (and not just the shops family members) purchase a new one as well as stay away from someones old restricted used one. it is what it is and be careful not to over repair by vinegaring out the block or you will clog the new one...
after you get through this be prepared for something else

[Afordman31]

Years ago I took two Model a radiators to a shop that I had dealt with in the past. I asked the owner to recore one of them using the best tanks. He said he needed the money up front $300. because where he got the cores he had to pay cash. This should have told me right away he had no credit. When I went to get my radiator I noted a crack around the filler neck an had them put solder on it. The solder job where the tanks soldered on looked like a Frankenstein job. I took it home and laid my 31 radiator shell over it and guess what, the core was to small and didn't ever come close for the edges to be covered with the shell. I took the radiator back, the owner said he would redo the core and would have it ready in the next week. I went back to his shop and he was no longer in business. So I was out $300 plus two cores and tanks. I did run into him some years later and give him a good piece of my mind, that was all I could do without him taking me to jail. I ended up buying a new radiator from a reliable dealer. Afordman31

[H. L. Chauvin]

FWIW: Excellent advice above on restoration.

Likewise, some time ago I was asking Rainmaker Ron, (with his former Standard Auto Parts Place in Peoria, Illinois), questions about a particular Model A advertised for sale in his area ..... he advised "not" to buy it.

He had these few very important and wise Model A buying suggestions to offer:

1. The most "inexpensive" Model A to buy is one that someone else bought for a bargain price and spent his own valuable time and his own money to "properly" restore it, (or had it restored), and wants it to be sold to a person who will take care of it ...... there are many of these around if one shops.

2. Beware of: "A chassis plus all parts" .... many times a swap meet collection of cheap mixed 1929 and 1931 parts that may not fit the chassis or fit together .... even though tempting ........... usually a total disaster concerning someone who just gave up on a real cheap attempt on a restoration.

3. If one ever buys any type of "partially" restored Model A at a bargain price, the cost of restoration will usually far exceed twice to four times the advertised bargain price ...... "if" it involves body work plus body re-painting, new interior upholstery, and new wood body parts.

4. If you are buying your "first" Model A, ask an experienced Model A owner/restorer/mechanic to help evaluate your purchase.

5. Avoid buying Model A's with no "clear" title or registration ....... get a copy of the title to check with your local DMV to see if this type of title is acceptable in your State.

6. There are far more very well restored Model A's for sale than there are buyers looking for Model A's ....... have patience, shop around.

7. Always physically drive a Model A and experience it prior to buying it.

8. Beware of buying any Model A just from a buyer's description and photos ....... "excellent restoration" is a used car salesman's term that can have many varied definitions for different concerned individuals.

Many other Model A buying suggestions could fill volumes ...... just hope these few passed on suggestions can help somebody in the future ....... we all live and can learn from others "if" we listen.

[P.S.]

Guys- He already bought his Model A, and is now seeking advice to repair its radiator. He is not seeking advice on how to re-buy his Model A.

Larry- $400 to re-core a Model A radiator is a good deal. I have had 2 of them re-cored at a local radiator shop, and both turned out perfect. Assuming the shop does it correctly, it will be the best $400 you ever spend on your Model A. Your overheating problems will magically disappear forever!

It has been my (admittedly limited) experience that every Model A with running warm or overheating problems has a compromised or downright garbage radiator. The "Red Book" test for radiators doesn't tell you the whole story. People say they conducted the test described in the "Red Book" and their radiator passed, so why does their Model A run hot? It won't tell you if the tubes are coated with grease inside them limiting heat transfer, etc.

If you choose to spend the extra $200 and buy new, just be aware of the fit and position of the shell mounts. Bring your old one with you, if possible, to compare.

[BILL WILLIAMSON]

Someone once mentioned, find a shop that does truck & tractor radiators, they usually do GOOD work.
Bill W.

[racingrufus]

If you are coming to Birmingham Alabama on I 59 there is a good radiator shop named Brice Thomas. Bring your old
raditor and let them look at it. Dwayne

[racingrufus]

Sorry for not enough info. Brice Thomas is in Gadsden Alabama. Dwayne

[H. L. Chauvin]

Re: I've only had this project for three weeks and it's already a money pit.

FWIW:

In my humble opinion, from reviewing this gentleman's sad comment above, his being unaware of already having to "Re-buy" this Model A in just only "three (3) weeks" is far more depressing for him than just this one (1) simple radiator repair.

Appears it never hurts to try to caution first time buyers about so many past Model A restoration horror experiences causing uncontrollable gnashing of teeth ...... and as he mentions, crying.

[P.S.]

Good point, H.L.

I also learned the hard way. I spent $12K for a misrepresented Tudor, then immediately had to start pouring money in it just to be able to drive it around the block. 3 years later, I am $25K into that Tudor and hundreds if not thousands of man-hours to make it the 'go anywhere, anytime' reliable car it is today.

However, despite wanting to sell the car at a loss just to be out from under it many times during the restoration, I wouldn't sell it for 6-figures now that it's done and part of the family.

It is my sincere hope that Larry can get his Model A to that point without going broke or giving up.

[H. L. Chauvin]

Hi P.S.,

All Model A past experiences, good, mediocre, and bad, are interesting and wonderful to discuss and share.

There are so many on this Forum giving free time and sincerely wanting and always trying to help others that it may be unbelievable for the U. S. Public to understand ....... that is ...... if these amazing forum stories and answered questions ever made the evening news or newspapers and magazines.

We can learn lots from reading Model A Forums, even though we may be cranky at times about whitewall tires and non-detergent oil ........... however, ask for help, and so many will try to assist.

I think I paid $15K for my 1930 Town Sedan .... can't remember exactly ..... and ..... I really would not like to know what I spent on it to date ....... I might look it up one day if I win the Lottery. LOL

[larry harding]

I really appreciate all the comments guys. although i have tinkered with old motorcycles (did a money pit indian chief a few years ago) flywheel engines etc I had never done an old car like this one and probably paid too much for this one considering its condition. I did a close examination of the bed this morning, there ain't much left of it. if I keep going with this project i'll probably get the rivet it together your self kit later on. i'm leaving western n.c. in the morning for Birmingham and going right by mikes to pick up some parts on the way. i'm getting two points of view, one in recore the other in go a little extra and and pick up a new one while there.I need to make up my mind before leaving.
on another note I was also looking at another pickup when I bought this one. it was an older restoration but had been sitting outside for seven or so years and deteriorating and some of the restoration work wasn't top notch and it was really going down hill. he came down to $8000 and I thought for the difference between what I paid for the one I have I could do a lot of work on the one I bought. there is no telling what is hidden on that one.

[Willie Krash]

Originally Posted by H. L. Chauvin

Re: I've only had this project for three weeks and it's already a money pit.

FWIW:

In my humble opinion, from reviewing this gentleman's sad comment above, his being unaware of already having to "Re-buy" this Model A in just only "three (3) weeks" is far more depressing for him than just this one (1) simple radiator repair.

Appears it never hurts to try to caution first time buyers about so many past Model A restoration horror experiences causing uncontrollable gnashing of teeth ...... and as he mentions, crying.

I agree its an ode to first time buyer. I lucked out when I purchased my A.
If I could add to what H. L said if you want a Model A join a Model A club.
Most don't care if you don't have a Model A. There are often very good cars available and they have known histories. I would add that after a few meeting and folks get to you know you they will take you under their wing.
It's the best investment you can make for your driving pleasure, pocketbook and it's good for the hobby.
It luck shines on you, you may even get a Mr. Chauvin type to mentor you and advise.
This isn't directed at the OP, but those that may jump in to this rather fun hobby.

This hobby will teach you tolerance and patience.

[tinkirk]

I think I would ask him to just fix what you have for now and take your chances
meaning fix the leak that you mentioned
he will more than likely say no warranty but you don't need that as long as he solders them up if he charges you under fifty and it works you are money ahead
just saying

[Mitch//pa]

Larry,
i went back through some of your old posts and pictures of when you purchased the truck. guys have started with much less than you have and restored these vehicles beautifully. i believe one guy that comes to mind is George Miller who started with a piece of scrap and built a gorgeous truck from that.. yes it does cost big $$$$ and much dedication.. you mentioned that your sheet metal is all completely rotted out and basically you were hoping to cut costs and build something simple to just jet around in. i cant help to wonder what the condition of all the mechanicals are,,(engine, trans, diff, cutch, brakes etc) being the top side is so rough.. in my proffesional opinion your car may need a decent amount of mechanical work to drive the car safely.. maybe before you bust 700 on a radiator you should evaluate the other sub systems first so you know where you stand. the radiator is most likely the tip of the iceberg...

[larry harding]

with a little tinkering I got the engine running, believe it or not it sounds great and didn't smoke after running a bit. I was able to drive it around the yard and other than clutch adjustment and the brake crossover dragging on the drive line everything seemed pretty good. if I can get the radiator to hold a little maybe I should wait a while. the bed needs over $1000 in patch panels or a new bed. that may wait a while also. I really enjoy working on old stuff but am shocked at how much money and labor this is going to take to get it road worthy.

[Mitch//pa]

Originally Posted by larry harding

my radiator was leaking a little and the steel mounting band had come loose. the radiator shop says the core is shot (in only eighty years???) and they can recore it for $400.00 + or it is $600 + for a new one from the suppliers. I've only had this project for three weeks and it's already a money pit. unless you guys have a better suggestion i'll have to decide what I'm going to do(besides cry).

Originally Posted by larry harding

with a little tinkering I got the engine running, believe it or not it sounds great and didn't smoke after running a bit. I was able to drive it around the yard and other than clutch adjustment and the brake crossover dragging on the drive line everything seemed pretty good. if I can get the radiator to hold a little maybe I should wait a while. the bed needs over $1000 in patch panels or a new bed. that may wait a while also. I really enjoy working on old stuff but am shocked at how much money and labor this is going to take to get it road worthy.

i would either get a better used bed or new depending on the budget.. it sounds like way to many labor hours to save the one you have. make sure you service the drive train fluids or at the minmum see if there is even oil in them... good luck