Go Back   The Ford Barn > General Discussion > Early V8 (1932-53)

Sponsored Links (Register now to hide all advertisements)

Reply
 
Thread Tools Display Modes
Old 04-16-2016, 06:58 PM   #1
anothercarguy
Member
 
anothercarguy's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jan 2013
Location: Bowen island, BC
Posts: 64
Default Freshly Rebuilt 59AB Help Needed, Near end of my Rope

I've also posted this over on the HAMB, but am looking for the expertise that I know exists on these 2 forums.

Ok...back story (it's long (sorry) but I want all the gurus on this board to have all the facts)...freshly rebuilt by previous owner 59AB, seems as though no expense was spared...had never been started.

Combo: bored .080", new pistons, balanced (bills to prove), Isky Max-1 spec cam (copy of Isky), Harmon Collins dizzy, Eddie Meyer (original) heads and Eddie Meyer (original) dual carb intake (with rebuilt 94's), new stock fuel pump.

First time start-up last week...primed carbs through vents...fired right up...but noticed the beehive filter was leaking (gushing actually) around the top seal (not tight enough)...shut down...tightened filter top, wiped up mess and re-started...engine noisy (similar to an sbc lifter clatter)...noticed low oil pressure (on the electric gauge looked to be around 10 lbs)...shut down. Decided to remove the beehive filter from the equation. Removed lines and installed plugs. Re-started, still low oil pressure, clatter continued and also noticed the stock (new) fuel pump did not seem to be delivering as it should...shut it down again.

Started partial disassembly to look further into the various issues. I believe I've found the Fuel pump delivery issue - the fuel inlet line was too deep into fuel pump causing a near dead end of the line into the pump at the inlet. Shortened copper fuel line within inlet.

Removed intake to check for presence of the oil pressure relief valve in lifter valley...it was there...removed plug, turned motor over on 12v without pressure relief plug. I could easily stop oil flow at the pressure relief valve with my thumb while turning over engine on starter.

Pulled off timing cover and cam gear to check for presence of front oil gallery plug...it's there. In so doing, I notice the probable cause of the SBC lifter like clatter...the bolts holding on the distributor were too long and were self clearancing the aluminum cam gear (problem solved- shortened bolts). I assume the rear oil gallery plug is in place as there is no sign of oil dripping down the rear of the engine.

I then removed the oil pan, oil pump (new Mellings M-19), and disassembled oil pump (inside looked good, pressure relief valve in place). Turned oil pump by hand in a container of oil, self primed and delivered lots of oil just spinning with a couple fingers. It wasn't tight in the block, but it wasn't sloppy either.

Thinking all looked well, I packed the oil pump with petroleum jelly, re-installed the oil pump and pan, re-filled with oil, removed the electric oil pressure gauge and replaced it with a mechanical gauge (thinking I might have had a gauge or sender issue).

Turned it over on the starter with 12v (no plugs, or intake...not that the intake makes any difference) with the fuel pump rod in place...and still have barely 10 lbs of oil pressure.

What am I missing? Where do I need to look next?

I've removed to oil pan again, and have given the connecting rods a wiggle and shake. They have no perceivable up and down play, and a very small amount of lateral movement as is required (feels like a couple thousands...though I haven't put a feeler gauge to them yet).

I plan on picking up some platigauge tomorrow in order to check the mains and confirm the con rod clearances.

Thanks again in advance, Tim
anothercarguy is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 04-16-2016, 07:19 PM   #2
papanomad
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Feb 2014
Location: clear lake, iowa
Posts: 126
Default Re: Freshly Rebuilt 59AB Help Needed, Near end of my Rope

why the petroleum jelly? may be plugging oil lines.
papanomad is offline   Reply With Quote
Sponsored Links (Register now to hide all advertisements)
Old 04-16-2016, 07:23 PM   #3
petehoovie
Senior Member
 
petehoovie's Avatar
 
Join Date: May 2015
Posts: 2,171
Default Re: Freshly Rebuilt 59AB Help Needed, Near end of my Rope

Quote:
Originally Posted by papanomad View Post
why the petroleum jelly? may be plugging oil lines.
Packing the oil pump with petroleum jelly is SOP to prime the oil pump....
__________________
The only thing nice about being imperfect is the joy it brings to others....

"Silver rings, your butt! Them's washers! Damn!"
"We shot our way out of that town for a dollar's worth of steel holes." - from 'The Wild Bunch' - 1969
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=7NReUd2_0u0

petehoovie is online now   Reply With Quote
Old 04-16-2016, 08:49 PM   #4
JM 35 Sedan
Senior Member
 
JM 35 Sedan's Avatar
 
Join Date: May 2010
Location: Near Rising Sun, Maryland
Posts: 9,786
Default Re: Freshly Rebuilt 59AB Help Needed, Near end of my Rope

I'm wondering if the oil passages in the rear of the block were modified to provide the 95% full flow oil filtering system? If so, in some methods used for machining this you cannot remove the oil filter and oil feed lines and plug those threaded holes in the rear of the block without completely cutting off the supply of oil to some of the main or rod bearings. There was a previous thread on this happening to one of our members and this destroyed some of his rod and main bearings. I hope that is not the same problem you are having.
__________________
John

"Never give up on what you really want to do. The person with big dreams is more powerful than one with all the facts". Albert Einstein
JM 35 Sedan is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 04-16-2016, 09:07 PM   #5
Charlie ny
Senior Member
 
Join Date: May 2010
Posts: 2,322
Default Re: Freshly Rebuilt 59AB Help Needed, Near end of my Rope

It happens occasionally the the oil pickup tube assembly is not securely brazed to
the small plate that attaches it to the pump body.
Charlie ny
Charlie ny is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 04-16-2016, 09:18 PM   #6
Binx
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Oct 2011
Location: Gloucester VA
Posts: 1,042
Default Re: Freshly Rebuilt 59AB Help Needed, Near end of my Rope

Quote:
Originally Posted by JM 35 Sedan View Post
I'm wondering if the oil passages in the rear of the block were modified to provide the 95% full flow oil filtering system? If so, in some methods used for machining this you cannot remove the oil filter and oil feed lines and plug those threaded holes in the rear of the block without completely cutting off the supply of oil to some of the main or rod bearings. There was a previous thread on this happening to one of our members and this destroyed some of his rod and main bearings. I hope that is not the same problem you are having.
Maybe this one... a cautionary tale...


https://www.fordbarn.com/forum/showth...ghlight=siezed


Lonnie
Binx is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 04-16-2016, 09:22 PM   #7
anothercarguy
Member
 
anothercarguy's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jan 2013
Location: Bowen island, BC
Posts: 64
Default Re: Freshly Rebuilt 59AB Help Needed, Near end of my Rope

Quote:
Originally Posted by JM 35 Sedan View Post
I'm wondering if the oil passages in the rear of the block were modified to provide the 95% full flow oil filtering system?
It has not been modified for the 95% full flow oil filtering.

Charlie ny,

I don't remember the oil pickup tube being brazed to the pump body. I'll need to look at that more closely tomorrow when I'm back in the shop.

Thanks for the responses...Tim

Last edited by anothercarguy; 04-16-2016 at 09:27 PM.
anothercarguy is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 04-16-2016, 09:45 PM   #8
Binx
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Oct 2011
Location: Gloucester VA
Posts: 1,042
Default Re: Freshly Rebuilt 59AB Help Needed, Near end of my Rope

Quote:
Originally Posted by anothercarguy View Post
It has not been modified for the 95% full flow oil filtering.

Charlie ny,

I don't remember the oil pickup tube being brazed to the pump body. I'll need to look at that more closely tomorrow when I'm back in the shop.

Thanks for the responses...Tim


Are you sure of this and checked it yourself?


Lonnie
Binx is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 04-16-2016, 09:56 PM   #9
Straightpipes
Senior Member
 
Straightpipes's Avatar
 
Join Date: May 2010
Location: Ballston Spa, NY
Posts: 739
Default Re: Freshly Rebuilt 59AB Help Needed, Near end of my Rope

That clatter sounds like lack of piston to head clearance.
Straightpipes is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 04-16-2016, 10:02 PM   #10
flatjack9
Senior Member
 
flatjack9's Avatar
 
Join Date: May 2010
Location: Oshkosh, Wi
Posts: 3,483
Default Re: Freshly Rebuilt 59AB Help Needed, Near end of my Rope

Low oil pressure can be caused by loose cam fit in the bearings. Someone could have put a cam with .010 under journals in the engine that has standard cam bearings. The oil is fed to the cam before going to the crank.
flatjack9 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 04-16-2016, 10:03 PM   #11
anothercarguy
Member
 
anothercarguy's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jan 2013
Location: Bowen island, BC
Posts: 64
Default Re: Freshly Rebuilt 59AB Help Needed, Near end of my Rope

Quote:
Originally Posted by Binx View Post
Are you sure of this and checked it yourself?


Lonnie
Yes, I looked specifically...the second hole has not been drilled (for the return line) and there is neither a grub screw, or cut threads to block the flow in the cross drilled area.

Thanks, tim
anothercarguy is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 04-16-2016, 10:07 PM   #12
anothercarguy
Member
 
anothercarguy's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jan 2013
Location: Bowen island, BC
Posts: 64
Default Re: Freshly Rebuilt 59AB Help Needed, Near end of my Rope

Quote:
Originally Posted by Charlie ny View Post
It happens occasionally the the oil pickup tube assembly is not securely brazed to
the small plate that attaches it to the pump body.
Charlie ny
Thinking further about this...when I put the oil pump pick-up screen in the container of oil and spun the gear with my fingers, it drew oil immediately at a very low and intermittent rpm (all that my 2 fingers could muster). The joint where the pick-up tube attaches to the plate that bolts to the pump was not submerged in the oil, so if it draws air, while in the motor, it should have drawn air during this test. I will look at it again tomorrow though.
anothercarguy is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 04-16-2016, 10:12 PM   #13
anothercarguy
Member
 
anothercarguy's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jan 2013
Location: Bowen island, BC
Posts: 64
Default Re: Freshly Rebuilt 59AB Help Needed, Near end of my Rope

Quote:
Originally Posted by flatjack9 View Post
Low oil pressure can be caused by loose cam fit in the bearings. Someone could have put a cam with .010 under journals in the engine that has standard cam bearings. The oil is fed to the cam before going to the crank.
Sadly, I think this is what I need to get into tomorrow. I've been trying to avoid having to remove the valves, springs, lifters and cam...but I think that is where I'm at now (I've no experience taking a flathead valvetrain apart...I'm hoping with it all being new, it will be forgiving in disassembly). Is there a way to measure the cam bearings without a dial bore gauge?

Thanks again, Tim
anothercarguy is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 04-16-2016, 10:17 PM   #14
anothercarguy
Member
 
anothercarguy's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jan 2013
Location: Bowen island, BC
Posts: 64
Default Re: Freshly Rebuilt 59AB Help Needed, Near end of my Rope

Quote:
Originally Posted by Straightpipes View Post
That clatter sounds like lack of piston to head clearance.
I'll look into this further tomorrow, but I don't think it's a problem. I've had the heads off previously and I recall the pistons were down the hole a bit at TDC and the gaskets were copper and seemed of substantial thickness (I must admit that I didn't specifically measure them). That said, when I pull the heads to look at the cam and cam bearing diameters this will be looked at more closely.

I appreciate all the suggestions, Tim.
anothercarguy is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 04-16-2016, 10:25 PM   #15
flatjack9
Senior Member
 
flatjack9's Avatar
 
Join Date: May 2010
Location: Oshkosh, Wi
Posts: 3,483
Default Re: Freshly Rebuilt 59AB Help Needed, Near end of my Rope

I just purchased a bunch of parts from an older man who has been building engines for years. The center journal has a groove around the circumference and one side was standard and the other was under size. He had put it in an engine and had the same problem you are having. When he took it apart he found the problem. He learned you have to check both diameters.
flatjack9 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 04-16-2016, 11:00 PM   #16
anothercarguy
Member
 
anothercarguy's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jan 2013
Location: Bowen island, BC
Posts: 64
Default Re: Freshly Rebuilt 59AB Help Needed, Near end of my Rope

Quote:
Originally Posted by flatjack9 View Post
I just purchased a bunch of parts from an older man who has been building engines for years. The center journal has a groove around the circumference and one side was standard and the other was under size. He had put it in an engine and had the same problem you are having. When he took it apart he found the problem. He learned you have to check both diameters.
I interpret this as the 2 halves (top and bottom) of the centre main bearing...Am I understanding this correctly?
anothercarguy is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 04-16-2016, 11:32 PM   #17
flatjack9
Senior Member
 
flatjack9's Avatar
 
Join Date: May 2010
Location: Oshkosh, Wi
Posts: 3,483
Default Re: Freshly Rebuilt 59AB Help Needed, Near end of my Rope

Talking camshaft. The groove is circumferential in the center of the journal. On one side of the groove, the diameter was correct, on the other it was undersized. I reread my earlier post and see that I didn't make it clear I was talking about the cam.
flatjack9 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 04-17-2016, 12:14 AM   #18
anothercarguy
Member
 
anothercarguy's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jan 2013
Location: Bowen island, BC
Posts: 64
Default Re: Freshly Rebuilt 59AB Help Needed, Near end of my Rope

Got it...thanks for the clarification. Engine is coming out of the car tomorrow and put on the stand for full tear down.
anothercarguy is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 04-17-2016, 01:03 AM   #19
hydropower
Member
 
Join Date: Feb 2014
Location: kamaee hawaii
Posts: 39
Default Re: Freshly Rebuilt 59AB Help Needed, Near end of my Rope

Are the cleanout plugs in the crank? Is the bushing for the fuel pump rod installed?
hydropower is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 04-17-2016, 07:25 AM   #20
chuck stevens
Senior Member
 
chuck stevens's Avatar
 
Join Date: May 2010
Location: upstate new york
Posts: 700
Default Re: Freshly Rebuilt 59AB Help Needed, Near end of my Rope

I'm very interested in your problem, as I have an 8BA in a 40 with a simular problem.
It was totally rebuilt, everything new. It has good oil pressure on start up but goes to zero at an idle after warmed up. I have checked the relief valve on the oil pump, the pick-up, and the oil galley plugs, same as you. I have gotten about three thousand miles on it, it is quiet, carries 25-30 lbs at road speed when up to temp.I also have an Isky max 1, new cam bearings hummmm. I will read yor posting everyday, thanks Chuck S.

Could you use a pre-luber to pressurize it before pulling the cam?
chuck stevens is offline   Reply With Quote
Reply

Thread Tools
Display Modes

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off

Forum Jump

Sponsored Links (Register now to hide all advertisements)


All times are GMT -5. The time now is 03:24 PM.