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Old 04-02-2019, 02:44 PM   #1
Tim Ayers
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Default Interesting observation with a 59L block- Still pretty thick @ 3 3/8ths bore

Some of you know the struggle I'm going through to find an usable block.
Working with Ronnie Roadster (thank you again, Ron), we are hoping that we finally found one we can use. I was concerned since this block was already punched out to 3 3/8ths.
The motor was given to me by my friend and was given to him when he purchased a '35 Coupe. Guy he bought the car from said the motor was "toast".

Many deem 3 3/8" to be the outer limits of flat head engine. I was pleasantly surprised to hear how much "meat" is still left after being bored out so big.

Here are the results after Ronnie did some tests:

CYL Top Front Bottom Rear
#1 .130 .156 .161 .111
#2 .122 .151 .173 .122
#3 .142 .146 .178 .118
#4 .178 .155 .198 .188
#5 .165 .134 .158 .167
#6 .115 .129 .177 .130
#7 .119 .134 .166 .143
#8 .192 .105 .177 .182

Next, Ronnie measured the bores and found there is a good amount of taper to each bore

#1 is an additional .009 worn
#2 .008
#3 .008
#4 .007
#5 .006
#7 .006
#7 .006
#8 .008

So, you can see this particular block is still pretty thick even after being punched out to what many believe to be the outer limits for a street engine.

During tear down, I was surprised to find this motor had Ford script four ring pistons. We didn't know Ford ever offered pistons in this large of an oversize.

We are hoping a .010" hone will clean it up. Good news is Egge offers 3 3/8" pistons in + .010, .020, .030" sizes.

Purpose of this post is to validate that sonic testing is crucial step in the building process.

It passed visual and pressure testing and we'll know by the end of the week if this one is cracked or not.

If it turns out to be good, we'll move forward and use it. This will make it a 290-ish c.i. mill.

Hopefully more good news to follow...

Last edited by Tim Ayers; 04-02-2019 at 03:26 PM.
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Old 04-02-2019, 03:42 PM   #2
34fivewindow
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Default Re: Interesting observation with a 59L block- Still pretty thick @ 3 3/8ths bore

Quote:
Originally Posted by Tim Ayers View Post
Some of you know the struggle I'm going through to find an usable block.
Working with Ronnie Roadster (thank you again, Ron), we are hoping that we finally found one we can use. I was concerned since this block was already punched out to 3 3/8ths.
The motor was given to me by my friend and was given to him when he purchased a '35 Coupe. Guy he bought the car from said the motor was "toast".

Many deem 3 3/8" to be the outer limits of flat head engine. I was pleasantly surprised to hear how much "meat" is still left after being bored out so big.

Here are the results after Ronnie did some tests:

CYL Top Front Bottom Rear
#1 .130 .156 .161 .111
#2 .122 .151 .173 .122
#3 .142 .146 .178 .118
#4 .178 .155 .198 .188
#5 .165 .134 .158 .167
#6 .115 .129 .177 .130
#7 .119 .134 .166 .143
#8 .192 .105 .177 .182

Next, Ronnie measured the bores and found there is a good amount of taper to each bore

#1 is an additional .009 worn
#2 .008
#3 .008
#4 .007
#5 .006
#7 .006
#7 .006
#8 .008

So, you can see this particular block is still pretty thick even after being punched out to what many believe to be the outer limits for a street engine.

During tear down, I was surprised to find this motor had Ford script four ring pistons. We didn't know Ford ever offered pistons in this large of an oversize.

We are hoping a .010" hone will clean it up. Good news is Egge offers 3 3/8" pistons in + .010, .020, .030" sizes.

Purpose of this post is to validate that sonic testing is crucial step in the building process.

It passed visual and pressure testing and we'll know by the end of the week if this one is cracked or not.

If it turns out to be good, we'll move forward and use it. This will make it a 290-ish c.i. mill.

Hopefully more good news to follow...
Tim, i have a 59L that was bored to 3 7/16 i have had no problems with it. It was originally built in 1960, all that i did to it was hone the cylinders, and put a set of rings in it.
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Old 04-02-2019, 06:52 PM   #3
mike in tucson
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Default Re: Interesting observation with a 59L block- Still pretty thick @ 3 3/8ths bore

I also have a 59L that I bought (it was a bargain because it was bored 3 3/8"). We also got the Egge 3.375+ 0.010 pistons. I had it sonic checked, thinnest location was 0.098" wall......zero problems and zero overheat.
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Old 04-02-2019, 06:56 PM   #4
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Default Re: Interesting observation with a 59L block- Still pretty thick @ 3 3/8ths bore

Quote:
Originally Posted by Tim Ayers View Post
Many deem 3 3/8" to be the outer limits of flat head engine. I was pleasantly surprised to hear how much "meat" is still left after being bored out so big.
So, you can see this particular block is still pretty thick even after being punched out to what many believe to be the outer limits for a street engine.

During tear down, I was surprised to find this motor had Ford script four ring pistons. We didn't know Ford ever offered pistons in this large of an oversize.
Hopefully more good news to follow...
More than likely those pistons are counterfeit. Compare that Ford script closely with a known real Ford piston.
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Old 04-02-2019, 07:00 PM   #5
Tim Ayers
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Default Re: Interesting observation with a 59L block- Still pretty thick @ 3 3/8ths bore

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More than likely those pistons are counterfeit. Compare that Ford script closely with a known real Ford piston.
Too late. They went in the trash. Really think someone would have gone through the trouble?

I'm going to look in the Green Bible to see. It was an odd one for sure.
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Old 04-02-2019, 07:34 PM   #6
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Default Re: Interesting observation with a 59L block- Still pretty thick @ 3 3/8ths bore

I would really check the bores to see if they are round and with no taper. A hone will not fix any of these issues. Usually when the bores are worn this much, they are not uniform - so don't try to just hone them (if it was me, I would bore it).

You may need to do a .020 overbore to get the bores in good shape - then have custom pistons made. I'm surprised it is that thick - did he happen to take measurements up and down the bore? Most 3 3/8 blocks that I have sonic tested only have about .100 to .110 max in them. BUT - you don't know about years of rust and other things that come into play. Good luck with the engine - should be a BIG cube thumper!
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Old 04-02-2019, 07:43 PM   #7
Tim Ayers
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Default Re: Interesting observation with a 59L block- Still pretty thick @ 3 3/8ths bore

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I would really check the bores to see if they are round and with no taper. A hone will not fix any of these issues. Usually when the bores are worn this much, they are not uniform - so don't try to just hone them (if it was me, I would bore it).

You may need to do a .020 overbore to get the bores in good shape - then have custom pistons made. I'm surprised it is that thick - did he happen to take measurements up and down the bore? Most 3 3/8 blocks that I have sonic tested only have about .100 to .110 max in them. BUT - you don't know about years of rust and other things that come into play. Good luck with the engine - should be a BIG cube thumper!
Hey Dale:

I guess we'll see. I trust Ronnie's opinion fully on where the bores need to go. Still need to get the final word from mag testing.

So, let's say 3 3/8" +.010-.030 over, Potvin 3/8ths or Isky 1007B cam, aluminum flywheel, larger valves, and Ron's magic will make this motor a real hot rod mill.

Sitting on pins and needles waiting to hear.
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Old 04-03-2019, 12:37 AM   #8
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Default Re: Interesting observation with a 59L block- Still pretty thick @ 3 3/8ths bore

From what i found out this far i canīt tell that the L, Y or upside down Y blocks are thicker or tougher...
A good non rusted block usually takes a 3 3/8 bore...itīs the state of the waterjackets that set it more then anything.
And you can usually hear how hard the blocks are when boring...one of then 427 nickelblocks make the boringbar scream going down the bore...
Honing with a ridgid hone should produce a round bore...otherwise Sunnen would have lied for years...lol
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Old 04-03-2019, 07:55 AM   #9
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Default Re: Interesting observation with a 59L block- Still pretty thick @ 3 3/8ths bore

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Originally Posted by Tim Ayers View Post
Hey Dale:

I guess we'll see. I trust Ronnie's opinion fully on where the bores need to go. Still need to get the final word from mag testing.

So, let's say 3 3/8" +.010-.030 over, Potvin 3/8ths or Isky 1007B cam, aluminum flywheel, larger valves, and Ron's magic will make this motor a real hot rod mill.

Sitting on pins and needles waiting to hear.
How much stroke are you going to run, how many carbs, what application? In a bigger cube motor, you might even go to a Potvin 425 - depends on what you want to do with it.
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Old 04-03-2019, 08:08 AM   #10
Tim Ayers
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Default Re: Interesting observation with a 59L block- Still pretty thick @ 3 3/8ths bore

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How much stroke are you going to run, how many carbs, what application? In a bigger cube motor, you might even go to a Potvin 425 - depends on what you want to do with it.
4" 2 X 97's to start on a Edelbrock Slingshot. '28 Roadster on a '32 frame. 28 tooth box to start, but have a 26 LZ geared box ready to go as well. Rear is a 3.78's with 16" X 7.00 rear tires.

I may go with 48's if it's not getting enough fuel.

Like your motor, I'd prefer to stick with 2 carbs at this point.

I've been talking to Pete about cams. I'm not opposed to going with the Eliminator, but it will be used as road car and the rumble will be used for my two boys. Need it to have something off the line with all that weight in it.

I have the 3/8ths in hand, but have a core boxed up to go to Pete for a grind yet to be determined.
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Old 04-03-2019, 09:07 AM   #11
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Default Re: Interesting observation with a 59L block- Still pretty thick @ 3 3/8ths bore

Tim
Ran two stock car engines out to 3 7/16, one has been running around in a 40 coupe for the past 25 years. The pistons in the 296 were 4 ring pistons that looked like stock Ford pistons, but had no number on them. I find the Flathead world is a strange place.
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Old 04-03-2019, 09:12 AM   #12
Tim Ayers
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Default Re: Interesting observation with a 59L block- Still pretty thick @ 3 3/8ths bore

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Tim
Ran two stock car engines out to 3 7/16, one has been running around in a 40 coupe for the past 25 years. The pistons in the 296 were 4 ring pistons that looked like stock Ford pistons, but had no number on them. I find the Flathead world is a strange place.
Haha. The safety, if all else fails back-up motor may be one Ronnie has in stock which is at 3 7/8ths.

This cracked block blues is getting old quick.

I'll report back once I hear about mag testing.
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Old 04-03-2019, 02:52 PM   #13
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Default Re: Interesting observation with a 59L block- Still pretty thick @ 3 3/8ths bore

You all can rest nicely tonight knowing when Im finished helping Tim with his Flathead project he will have one heck of a kick ass combination. Now about a cam Im thinking the Crane R-450 would work just fine.
The honing will be accomplished with the good old tried and true Sunnen rigid hone in their highly successful machine that many quality shops use in place of boring blocks these days.
Old Ron I think the complete 3-7/16 bore engine I have was one that came from you or someone we both know a very long time ago. Its waiting to be reborn one day.
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Last edited by Ronnieroadster; 04-03-2019 at 04:11 PM.
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Old 04-03-2019, 03:13 PM   #14
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Default Re: Interesting observation with a 59L block- Still pretty thick @ 3 3/8ths bore

Glad you are almost there, Tim - fingers crossed for ya .....
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Old 04-03-2019, 07:09 PM   #15
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Default Re: Interesting observation with a 59L block- Still pretty thick @ 3 3/8ths bore

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Originally Posted by Tim Ayers View Post
4" 2 X 97's to start on a Edelbrock Slingshot. '28 Roadster on a '32 frame. 28 tooth box to start, but have a 26 LZ geared box ready to go as well. Rear is a 3.78's with 16" X 7.00 rear tires.

I may go with 48's if it's not getting enough fuel.

Like your motor, I'd prefer to stick with 2 carbs at this point.

I've been talking to Pete about cams. I'm not opposed to going with the Eliminator, but it will be used as road car and the rumble will be used for my two boys. Need it to have something off the line with all that weight in it.

I have the 3/8ths in hand, but have a core boxed up to go to Pete for a grind yet to be determined.
Sounds like fun! With Ronnie building it - you should have no problems and it will go like stink. Given you're only running two carbs, you might think about the Holley 2110's - like mine, you'll need more CFM than two 97's can really deliver (and really, I don't think the 48's really buy you anything). The Potvin 3/8's is a heck of a cam and as I've proven with my big roller, these engines can take a lot of cam (especially in a light car). You can always swap cams down the road - depending on what lifter type you will be running. I love roller lifters and lots of duration - they just get a bit expensive is all.
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Old 04-03-2019, 07:20 PM   #16
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Default Re: Interesting observation with a 59L block- Still pretty thick @ 3 3/8ths bore

I have Ford script 4 ring pistions in my 30 A that has a 29 engine and if I remember right they are 108 thousands over size but that was way back in 1965 I think when I bought rings for it. I know a Model A engine is different than a Flat Head 8 cyl
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Old 04-03-2019, 08:04 PM   #17
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Default Re: Interesting observation with a 59L block- Still pretty thick @ 3 3/8ths bore

Thank to all; especially to Ronnie. Hopefully we'll hear from the machine shop soon. I have no doubt that Ronnie will screw together one heck of flathead motor. Now I'm getting concerned the rest of the drive train won't be up to the task!

B&S: Remember that story I told you of the $100 Crowler rollers lifters and drill guide I pass on at a yard sale? Yeah, I'm still kicking myself and they would come in handy if we go with a BIG cam.

Cam wise, I guess Ronnie has other ideas. Haha.

Carbs: I'm really interested in those new big cfm 97's. They have the look and deliver the flow, so I may have to buck up. I don't know why and this is just my issue, but I don't like the look of Holleys. I know, silly right?

https://www.stromberg-97.com/carburetion/big97.asp 250 CFM from the BIG 97's.

Thanks, Tom. I appreciate the good vibes.

Last edited by Tim Ayers; 04-03-2019 at 08:17 PM.
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Old 04-04-2019, 12:30 PM   #18
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Default Re: Interesting observation with a 59L block- Still pretty thick @ 3 3/8ths bore

Just got off the phone with Crane. Still grind flathead cams and have the lobes for the
R-450. It would be $225 on my core.

Now, I would need Pete to do the lifters.
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Old 04-04-2019, 09:50 PM   #19
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Default Re: Interesting observation with a 59L block- Still pretty thick @ 3 3/8ths bore

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Just got off the phone with Crane. Still grind flathead cams and have the lobes for the
R-450. It would be $225 on my core.

Now, I would need Pete to do the lifters.



Tim guess who already has lifters and a cam
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Old 04-04-2019, 10:10 PM   #20
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Default Re: Interesting observation with a 59L block- Still pretty thick @ 3 3/8ths bore

Shocking Ronnie . . . shocking! I can't imagine you having some great stuff all ready to go! LOL Tim is in great hands! I hope to see you and Laura again soon - has been far too long.
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