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Old 01-08-2015, 09:53 AM   #1
flatheadfan
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Default Master cylinder conversion

Guys-

I am in the process of converting a '36 to hydraulic brakes. I have been using floaters on the brakes for some time but it seems like they have a constant demand for being adjusted which is no long "fun."

While searching the archives I came across an excellent response to a question that "Mart" made in regards to a dual chamber m/c set-up:

"If a supplier were to arrange a 1-1/16" dual cylinder with built in residual valves, nice easy to access reservoir and a three bolt fixing like the original, then kit it out with outlets so a 1/4 pipe would screw straight in, plus a port for the brake light switch then they would sell like hot cakes to the early ford squad." (7-28-14)

Anyone ever find something close or possibly a "workable" 1-1/16" m/c like Mart suggested?

Thanks

Tom
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Old 01-08-2015, 10:07 AM   #2
TJ
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Default Re: Master cylinder conversion

I'm not sure you can find a dual MC with the 1 1/16 bore. They do make an adapter that goes from 3 bolt to 2 bolt for the 39 pedal assemble ,so you can use the dual MC. It moves the MC back about 3/4". There are adapters that will screw into the MC that will allow the 1/4" lines. Some dual cylinders have residual valves and some do not. It would take some research and a parts house with some knowledgeable people willing to help to find a cylinder with the correct specifications to use with the adapter.
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Old 01-08-2015, 10:55 AM   #3
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Default Re: Master cylinder conversion

Hi all; I ran across a old Ford with a dual master cyl and the big 5/16' tubing ports. It was a drum/drum early '60s Cadillac. We found a new/ rebuilt one in the NAPA catalog, and it all worked great. Newc
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Old 01-08-2015, 11:05 AM   #4
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Default Re: Master cylinder conversion

Newc - like this one? 1962-66 Cadillac Master Cylinder

http://www.rockauto.com/catalog/more...564&cc=1320297

https://www.opgi.com/cadillac/CE10703/

http://www.summitracing.com/parts/dh.../make/cadillac

Last edited by Tinker; 01-08-2015 at 11:12 AM.
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Old 01-08-2015, 11:15 AM   #5
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Default Re: Master cylinder conversion

Tom,
I recently went through this. The only 1 1/16" mc I found was from Wilwood. Unfortunately, it just didn't move enough fluid to work correctly and I ended up using a 1 1/8" one from Summit.

When I say 'correctly', I spent a lot of time studying how a mc works and what is SUPPOSED to happen if one circuit fails. So, while the 1 1/6" mc worked OK under normal circumstances, it would NOT work in the event of a failure of either front or rear brakes. There was just not enough pedal travel in my '36.

IMO, I think the 1 1/8" one works great. The pedal effort/travel is fine for me.

But Mart is correct. Plumbing is a nightmare all to itself. I spent a lot of time on the Net and at the local parts houses trying to get all the fittings I needed. It was not fun.

Heard
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Old 01-08-2015, 02:33 PM   #6
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Default Re: Master cylinder conversion

Drum/drum Mustang works for me. It's not an easy 10 second swap, and requires some adapters for the 1/4" lines, but it works very well.
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Old 01-08-2015, 04:30 PM   #7
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Default Re: Master cylinder conversion

Quote:
Originally Posted by Heard View Post
Tom,
I recently went through this. The only 1 1/16" mc I found was from Wilwood. Unfortunately, it just didn't move enough fluid to work correctly and I ended up using a 1 1/8" one from Summit.

When I say 'correctly', I spent a lot of time studying how a mc works and what is SUPPOSED to happen if one circuit fails. So, while the 1 1/6" mc worked OK under normal circumstances, it would NOT work in the event of a failure of either front or rear brakes. There was just not enough pedal travel in my '36.

IMO, I think the 1 1/8" one works great. The pedal effort/travel is fine for me.

But Mart is correct. Plumbing is a nightmare all to itself. I spent a lot of time on the Net and at the local parts houses trying to get all the fittings I needed. It was not fun.

Heard
HEY TOM: Your going the wrong way ... the bigger bore MC. "softer peddle" and much less pressure at the wheel cylinder and "not better stopping" ...I assume not what you want ?? ..so you need to move more fluid ?? need to adjust the breaks CLOSER to the drum ?? .... some years ago I went through this with a VW dunn buggie, much bigger engine and tires and class body... could not stop it, running hard out in the sand.... was told by the big engine builders to go to a smaller MC.... use one off a VW transpotter ?? it was smaller buy ?? MM ?? and boy did it work....I could lock up big tires on the street ?? woo hoo , could not believe it.
So when you get it all built ie " smaller MC. adapter plate, and pluming fittings made " please send all info with drawings in detail, and all parts numbers..ect...... thanks ..........OLD...........BILL
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Old 01-08-2015, 06:34 PM   #8
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Default Re: Master cylinder conversion

Plus 1 for Mustang MC. Drum Drum and built in residual pressure valves.

http://www.summitracing.com/parts/DH...n/?prefilter=1
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Old 01-08-2015, 08:15 PM   #9
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Default Re: Master cylinder conversion

John-

Thanks for the reply. Looking over the Summit web site you referred to brings up a question. The ports appear to be on what would be the inboard side. Is there a model that has the posts on the other side? If not, how did you hook-up the brake tubing? In my situation the brake lines will be on the outboard side (frame side) of the car.

Again, thanks for the quick reply.

Tom
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Old 01-08-2015, 08:18 PM   #10
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Default Re: Master cylinder conversion

I used the Mustang Drum Drum on 2 of my projects, my 30Model coupe and my dragster, just make sure the leverage linkage that moves the rod to MC is short, If you have to long a linkage you'll have to push the pedal harder. Walt
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Old 01-08-2015, 08:31 PM   #11
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Default Re: Master cylinder conversion

Quote:
Originally Posted by flatheadfan View Post
John-

Thanks for the reply. Looking over the Summit web site you referred to brings up a question. The ports appear to be on what would be the inboard side. Is there a model that has the posts on the other side? If not, how did you hook-up the brake tubing? In my situation the brake lines will be on the outboard side (frame side) of the car.

Again, thanks for the quick reply.

Tom
Just loop them over or under the MC.
(not my car, just some random pictures)
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Old 01-09-2015, 12:29 AM   #12
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Default Re: Master cylinder conversion

Use a 1967 Mustang cyl. drum drum.
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Old 01-09-2015, 08:46 AM   #13
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Default Re: Master cylinder conversion

That's what I use, the 67 Mustang. Need to watch, they come both drum/drum and disc/drum.
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Old 01-09-2015, 08:58 AM   #14
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Default Re: Master cylinder conversion

Quote:
Originally Posted by JSeery View Post
Just loop them over or under the MC.
(not my car, just some random pictures)
There are a couple of problems with the first picture. One, the lines should be always be routed out of harms way, and in this case either along side (even with) the master or at least as close as possible running under. Second, there looks to be copious amounts of Teflon sealer or tape , both totally unnecessary or needed with the inverted flare fittings shown. This is one case of how not to plumb a master cylinder.
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Old 01-09-2015, 09:05 AM   #15
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Default Re: Master cylinder conversion

Quote:
Originally Posted by V8 Bob View Post
There are a couple of problems with the first picture. One, the lines should be always be routed out of harms way, and in this case either along side (even with) the master or at least as close as possible running under. Second, there looks to be copious amounts of Teflon sealer or tape , both totally unnecessary or needed with the inverted flare fittings shown. This is one case of how not to plumb a master cylinder.
Good catch! Just a photo I grabbed quickly, should have looked it over better!!! Anyway, forgetting the photo, you can run the lines around or under the MC.

Using tape or sealant on brake lines is a big No, No. The flare should do the sealing and if it doesn't then it needs to be corrected.

Again, Good catch V8 Bob.
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Old 01-09-2015, 01:02 PM   #16
john in illinois
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Default Re: Master cylinder conversion

Tom, I don't think they make Mustang cylinders with ports on oposite side. You can route to other side as mentioned. Also the front brakes are connected to the port nearest the pushrod. The ports have different sizes. I went to autozone and got inverted flare fittings to fit each hole for 1/4 inch line.

I used MT Car Bendix brakes on the front and Ford brakes on the rear.
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Old 01-09-2015, 03:00 PM   #17
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Default Re: Master cylinder conversion

10-1373 is a 1" bore drum/drum master similar to the Mustang; but with the ports on the opposite side.

Should use 1/4" lines too; not the 3/16" lines that are in the picture.
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Old 01-09-2015, 03:07 PM   #18
JSeery
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Default Re: Master cylinder conversion

Quote:
Originally Posted by rich b View Post
10-1373 is a 1" bore drum/drum master similar to the Mustang; but with the ports on the opposite side.

Should use 1/4" lines too; not the 3/16" lines that are in the picture.
Why would you want to use 1/4" lines?
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Old 01-09-2015, 03:07 PM   #19
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Default Re: Master cylinder conversion

Good info rich! The only thing to possibly be careful of with a 1" bore in this case is the fact that it's going to require a longer pedal stroke to displace an equal volume of fluid as that displaced by a 1-1/16" bore, especially if one side of the cylinder ever fails. That can be a problem with the pedal geometry in these old Fords. Just sayin'! DD
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Old 01-09-2015, 03:12 PM   #20
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Default Re: Master cylinder conversion

I just helped a friend change out the brakes and master cylinder on his 45 pickup. He now has F-100 brakes all around. We used a 1" bore dual cylinder. I hope it will work. He is installing the fronts today.
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