Second version of the throttle assembly

[wrndln]

When the 2011 version of the judging guideline came out, there was an added throttle control assembly (from 6 versions and now 7) - page 1-17 (see picture below). I have a roadster made in September 28. The car falls into the range where the "added" throttle assembly was added to the JG's - June 1928 through September 1928. The new JG's addition is very similar to the next version (style 3) except the second version has stiffening ribs on it. I was at Hershey this year and I must have looked through over 200 throttle assemblies and never found one like the second style. I am wondering it the second style is a "phantom" assembly. If anyone has a car with the second version, would you please post a response to this post, so I know they really exist. I have friends that have never seen one either. Also, if anyone knows anything about the second version, I would like to know about it. I have seen a number (not a lot, however) of the first version (and have had 4 of them) that also has stiffening ribs on it and plenty of the third through seventh versions, but zip for the second style. I know any throttle assembly would work OK, but I am trying to restore my cars to near fine points so I would like to use the correct parts on them. Any information would be appreciated.
Rusty Nelson

[Tom Wesenberg]

I also have never seen the second version.
I have the first version, but will have to look at it again, because I don't remember it havlng the ribs either.
My Sept 1928 Phaeton has the original engine and it has the third one shown in your pictures.

Correction, my 28 Phaeton has the one I pictured in post 22, which as sphanna says isn't pictured in the J/S.

[Rowdy]

I do not have the current JS yet so this is news to me. I will look through my throttle assemblies and see if I have one of these. It has been quite some time since I have looked at them. Rod

[d.j. moordigian]

My mid August 28 also has the 2rd. style which "holds no water" since the
engine and transmission were changed out long before I purchased it in 1965.

I suspect it is a fabricated assembly, similar to the 1st style, and not a forging
like the 3rd thru 7th styles.....but that's just a guess, I never have seen one
also.

I would (Rusty, I'm sure) like too see photos of this "phantom" critter?

[SteveB31]

Rusty,

I looked thru about 150 throttle assemblies we have, to try to find one for you,and their were none of that style. Had several of the early ones and numerous of all the others, but I too have never seen one. When you sent me a request to look for one, I too realized that I have never seen one of that type either.

Steve Becker
Berts Model A Center

[wrndln]

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Steve,
Thanks for looking, I appreciate it. I am starting to think the second version is a "ghost" part. It wasn't in the JG's until the 2011 revision. I know they were supposedly used for only 3 or 4 months, but still it would seem that a few would show up at Hershey (I must have looked at over 200 throttle assemblies and none found) or in your cache of throttle assemblies at Bert's. According to Steve Plucker's engine production chart, about 300,000 engines (cars??), were made from June 28 through September 28. That is a fair amount of throttle assemblies used. I will let you know if I find one, but I am not banking on finding one any time soon, if ever.
Rusty Nelson

[160B]

I think this item was made out of a hard to find material from the 20’s referred to as “un-obtainium”

[d.j. moordigian]

Well...between Rusty, Steve and my self, we looked at about 500 assemblies. Interesting, too say the least!

I have found a way too circumvent the problem on my car. The "60 day rule"!
My car's engine is 60 work days from the last day in May...neat....I can use the
First style Throttle assembly!

Now for the next question on the "60 day rule"......do we have to count weekends?

[160B]

Originally Posted by d.j. moordigian

Well...between Rusty, Steve and my self, we looked at about 500 assemblies. Interesting, too say the least!

I have found a way too circumvent the problem on my car. The "60 day rule"!
My car's engine is 60 work days from the last day in May...neat....I can use the
First style Throttle assembly!

Now for the next question on the "60 day rule"......do we have to count weekends?

Per the judging standards page 7 (Rev 2011) paragraph "Definition of dates and Body styles" it is 2 months. But in Area 1 Engine Compartment, page 1-2 (Rev 2011) upper rh column the engine can vary as much as 3 months and 4 months in 1931, so if the throttle assembly was shipped on the engine than it could fall into the 3 month window.

[d.j. moordigian]

Originally Posted by 160B

so if the throttle assembly was shipped on the engine

You reply got me thinking about how complete the engine(s) were for
shipping?

It would have had a flywheel housing, flywheel and a throttle ass. too
test run the engine. Also the clutch and pressure plate assemble and maybe
starter?

Now...back too the " Second version of the throttle assembly",...who
has photos?

[sphanna]

I have a throttle control assy. that is different from all the 7 pictured in the above posts. I will try to post a picture. Any information about this one? It came off an engine numbered A2162368.
As you can see, the bottom goes straight to the edge at the left of the picture. It looks mostly like the top picture except there is the curved extention to the upper right top. Also I am wondering if any or all will work for any year if not for show.

[wrndln]

Steve,
I see what you mean. It looks very close to the third version, except for the lack of a curved up area in the lower left side. Maybe there were several venders that made the assemblies and they took a little liberty with the design. I will check my 5 or 6 version three assemblies and see if any look like the one in your picture. I suppose the people that wrote the JG's will add one more assembly to the guidelines - ha ha. The plot thickens!!

I was hoping some Fordbarner that had a car made between June 28 and Sept 28 that was not molested would respond on what throttle assembly was on their car.
Rusty Nelson

[160B]

Originally Posted by wrndln

Steve,
I see what you mean. It looks very close to the third version, except for the lack of a curved up area in the lower left side. Maybe there were several venders that made the assemblies and they took a little liberty with the design. I will check my 5 or 6 version three assemblies and see if any look like the one in your picture. I suppose the people that wrote the JG's will add one more assembly to the guidelines - ha ha. The plot thickens!!

I was hoping some Fordbarner that had a car made between June 28 and Sept 28 that was not molested would respond on what throttle assembly was on their car.
Rusty Nelson

The lower left side looks more like the first version.

2162368 would be an August 19,1929 engine

I always wondered how hard the pattern maker worked to revise the old patterns to the new version.

Looks like the pattern maker got the update correct for the curve on the RH side but did not change the pattern on the LH side to add the radius corner.

If you look at the first version of the pivot arm with a spacer below it is exactly like the one in the photo you posted.

[Rowdy]

Looked at the 23 I have and the second style does not exist in my parts pile. Thinking this may exist in drawing form only. Rod

[wrndln]

160B,
I looked though my 12 to 14 throttle assemblies and for the style 3 assemblies. I found 5 that are like the one you posted a picture of and 2 that are like the JG's. Go figure. I posted a picture of the two assembles below. It is kind of wield that out of 7 assemblies of the third type, 5 are different from the JG'S and 2 are the same.
Rusty Nelson

[Bob C]

Rusty, I wonder if the one in the lower picture came after the one in the top picture as
it eliminates the spacer under the bell crank saving Henry money.

Bob

[160B]

Originally Posted by wrndln

160B,
I looked though my 12 to 14 throttle assemblies and for the style 3 assemblies. I found 5 that are like the one you posted a picture of and 2 that are like the JG's. Go figure. I posted a picture of the two assembles below. It is kind of wield that out of 7 assemblies of the third type, 5 are different from the JG'S and 2 are the same.
Rusty Nelson

The photo was posted by SPHANA.

It makes you think that there might be something that was missed when the JS's were revised.

It is interesting that no one has a throttle assembly similar to style 2, but in the small number of Fordbarners on this post they have produced 6 of a design that is not in the JS???

[wrndln]

Sorry 160B,
My mistake. I should have check a little more. If that were my only mistake, I would be a happy man!
Rusty Nelson

[160B]

Originally Posted by wrndln

Sorry 160B,
My mistake. I should have check a little more. If that were only mistake, I would be a happy man!
Rusty Nelson

No apolgy necessary!!
I was trying to make sure that individual who posted the photo was noted correctly.

[Rowdy]

Since so far none of the second style have been postes as found it would be nice if someone from the Js committee would come forward and show us what research prompted the change. Rod