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Old 06-02-2017, 07:51 AM   #1
marty in Ohio
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Default Title Trouble ??

Could this spell trouble?
A friend of one of our members recently bought a '29 tudor out of a museum in Indiana. He bought it sight unseen over the internet and phone and it was delivered to his home this week. He was a Mustang collector and decided to buy an "A" because he "always wanted one." Well, we looked it over and found that it's really a '30 with 21 inch wheels on it. We worked on it all afternoon to get it to run and there is a problem with the clutch/transmission. It was supposed to have been tuned up before the sale and had a rebuilt engine (neither was true.) The title is in the mail so we don't know what the car actually is. Will there be a problem getting an Ohio title for an Indiana car that isn't what it was advertised to be?
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Old 06-02-2017, 08:19 AM   #2
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Default Re: Title Trouble ??

If it's already titled, shouldn't be a problem transferring it. However changing the year on the title could be a real issue. Must have not even had much for pictures to look at if he couldn't even tell the year by them?
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Old 06-02-2017, 08:36 AM   #3
FRANK PKNY
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Default Re: Title Trouble ??

Does he intend to keep the car? Sounds like a case of fraud to me! Did he buy it through e pay ? if so he may have some recourse. If he intends to keep it , first you need to check the serial number to see what year it is. I think the A's all used the engine number, and that may have been changed over the years. I would be curious if he actually purchased it from a museum? I would think they would be reputable. In NY we can register an untitled old vehicle by filling a lost title form, they check to see if's it's reported stolen and if it's clean they issue a new registration transferable. The Registration is your title here, on pre 1970 vehicles. Let's get all the facts here then perhaps we could be of help.
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Old 06-02-2017, 10:05 AM   #4
Franchise_24
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Default Re: Title Trouble ??

From what I had to deal with, he will have to get an out of state car inspection, and basically the "VIN" number on the title will have to match what is on the car. Lots of model A's use the engine number. I have a Couple and the engine number is the vin number on the title. Well I got a car from Michigan and it had a weird vin number on the title that Michigan assigned so they had to sticker the car with that "vin" number before I could take it and get the title switched.
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Old 06-02-2017, 11:34 AM   #5
Jeff/Illinois
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Default Re: Title Trouble ??

I feel badly for your friend, Marty.

The man was wanting to have a nice Model A to drive with and he wound up with these problems.

I would make the museum take this car back, give him his money back, and then you go out with him and start Model A Ford shopping.

You can buy really nice Tudors all day long that are correct and need nothing done, and it won't break the bank there are good deals out there for these cars.

Let us know what happens.
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Old 06-02-2017, 11:39 AM   #6
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Default Re: Title Trouble ??

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Funny things can happen with the provenance of items coming from a museum. Items donated to the museum may have been donated by a person without legal authority to make the transfer and the property can be reclaimed by a person that can prove some ownership to it, i.e., by virtue of inheritance. Museums often generate revenue by selling off excess stuff or items that do not fit the profile of their collection.
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Old 06-02-2017, 11:39 AM   #7
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Default Re: Title Trouble ??

I never buy a car without looking at it. When I bought my Model A I took a good friend along that knows Model A's very well. He pointed out a lot of good and some bad aspects of the car. In the end I got lucky and bought a car very worthy of a restoration for a good price.
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Old 06-02-2017, 12:16 PM   #8
1931 flamingo
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Default Re: Title Trouble ??

Evidently no real homework was done on this purchase. I'd stop worrying UNTIL the title comes. JMO
Paul in CT

Car may be a 30 and engine swapped out for a 29??
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Old 06-02-2017, 02:25 PM   #9
Jeff/Illinois
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Default Re: Title Trouble ??

[QUOTE=ursus;1480594Items donated to the museum may have been donated by a person without legal authority to make the transfer and the property can be reclaimed by a person that can prove some ownership to it, i.e., by virtue of inheritance. Museums often generate revenue by selling off excess stuff or items that do not fit the profile of their collection.[/QUOTE]

You are correct, in that museums often sell off items to generate support, for the museum.

But "..... reclaiming property by virtue of inheritance".... good luck with that, it ain't a gonna work that way. The 'donated item' became the property of the museum when it was given to them. The donator more than likely claimed a deduction against his income tax report for that year. No, that baby is long gone the guy that donated it washed his hands of any claim on the property in this case the Model A.

As a side note, I knew a lady that around 25 years ago, donated her deceased husband's #1 mint condition '66 Shelby back to Ford hoping it would be put on display at The Henry Ford museum. What actually happened was a Ford Executive grabbed the car, drove it a couple years, and then sold it for a lot of money and pocketed the cash. That's how THAT works.

Last edited by Jeff/Illinois; 06-02-2017 at 02:30 PM.
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Old 06-02-2017, 02:57 PM   #10
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Default Re: Title Trouble ??

all good advice and Franchise is correct- you will need an inspection, because the car is from out of state and OH is a bitch.....................

-as flamingo says- wait for the title and go from there. might not be a big deal titling it, but leave it the way it is and dont open up a can of worms.

also stated, you have recourse for a return should all else fail.

good luck!
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Old 06-02-2017, 06:51 PM   #11
H. L. Chauvin
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Default Re: Title Trouble ??

If anyone looks under "Search" above, there may be thousands of printed Forum "Title" replies, Forum printed "Title" answers, and Forum printed "Title" opinions, most of which are definitely "directly" related to your first very basic question, e.g.:

"Could this spell trouble?" My response. "Maybe!"

Next, in reading what was received by the buyer thus far,

1. We looked it over and found that it's really a '30 with 21 inch wheels on it; and,

2. We worked on it all afternoon to get it to run and there is a problem with the clutch/transmission. It was supposed to have been tuned up before the sale and had a rebuilt engine (neither was true.) Hmmmmmmmm?

3. The title is in the mail, (hmmmmmmmm, really?), so we don't know what the car actually is.

4. Will there be a problem getting an Ohio title for an Indiana car that isn't what it was advertised to be?" My response, "Maybe!"

Also, in my opinion, 1. and 2. above appears to spell trouble, and if these were inaccurate, why does 3. above, "Title in the Mail" sound like a possible problem solver, that is "if" it is in the mail.

As far as 4., prior to doing "anything", try waiting the above suggested few days for the "Title in the mail", and "if" it comes in, please report back on this Forum what it includes.

Finally:

A. Don't ever act quickly and try to jump to conclusions and please don't try to second guess just "any" Government employee at DMV; and,

B. Please be extremely careful and "ASSUME" absolutely nothing when trying to negotiate with just "any" Government employee at DMV ... many are wonderful, some appear to look for title problems for any vehicle.

C. Appears free and quick advice from anyone on how to obtain a difficult Model A title is very cheap and so plentiful ..... (LOL) ..... especially when this most adamant advice comes from someone who will not be the final potential owner of this problem Model A.

Last edited by H. L. Chauvin; 06-02-2017 at 06:54 PM. Reason: typo
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Old 06-02-2017, 10:35 PM   #12
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Default Re: Title Trouble ??

There is a reason for the saying ,Check it 7 ways to Sunday, and it has been my experience, that when you have that done, check it many more times and assume nothing and you will not be disappointed in the end.
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Old 06-02-2017, 11:00 PM   #13
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Default Re: Title Trouble ??

I'll say a prayer for your friend.
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Old 06-03-2017, 02:27 PM   #14
marty in Ohio
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Default Re: Title Trouble ??

Thanks, guys, for all the advice. When this new owner called the seller in Illinois (sorry, i thought the car was from Indiana) he was told that they hadn't sent the title yet, but would put it in the mail soon. He has parked the car in the garage and hasn't touched it since. I'll let you all know when there is a solution to this mess.
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Old 06-03-2017, 03:18 PM   #15
H. L. Chauvin
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Default Re: Title Trouble ??

Hi Marty,

As a third party and non-owner of this questionable Model A, you can probably go to DMV, ask questions, investigate, and with caution, most importantly, possibly find a DMV person willing to help you secure a title for your friend.

I have dealt with all types of Local, State, and Federal Government agencies for close to 56 years. Every agency usually has at least one compassionate individual willing to assist and at least one non-compassionate person trying to assure that your life is as miserable as their lives.

Not much different from anyone trying to deal with a marriage contract ..... the other individual you are dealing with is 100% important ..... just proceed cautiously with eyes wide open.

And, thanks for sharing your trying to help your Model A friend.
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Old 06-04-2017, 10:33 AM   #16
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Default Re: Title Trouble ??

Like Franchise 24 posted, we need an out of state inspection to get a title for a vehicle from out of state. However, this doesn't necessarily mean a trip to the BMV inspection site. In our area, at least one new car dealership will perform the out of state inspection and fill out the form. This may be an option in your area too, Marty. Sometimes who you know can play a big part in how easy this could be.
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Old 06-04-2017, 11:08 AM   #17
H. L. Chauvin
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Default Re: Title Trouble ??

Hi Marty,

If acquiring a title for your friend ever appears a bit impossible, don't forget that this World is full of problem solving people who are slicker than a boiled okra perched on top of a wad of Model A axle grease; e.g., don't ever overlook the possibility of asking someone like a slick looking "Senior-Used-Car-Salesman" about how he would obtain a very "complicated & difficult" vintage "used" car title.
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Old 06-04-2017, 11:22 AM   #18
Charlie Stephens
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Default Re: Title Trouble ??

Marty,

Check to see if it is illegal to sell a car without a valid title in Indiana. If it is, and I assume it is, that should give you some leverage. It sounds like there are many problems beyond the title, I would push to send it back. I almost hate to ask, but how much did he pay for it?

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Old 06-04-2017, 09:13 PM   #19
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Default Re: Title Trouble ??

ford sold a1929 as a 1930 if it was in stock after jan 1930 check #'s could be correct
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Old 06-05-2017, 07:37 AM   #20
marty in Ohio
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Default Re: Title Trouble ??

Still waiting to hear if the title has arrived.
Charlie, I didn't want to ask outright what he paid for this car, but I knew he would tell after a while. He finally asked "do you think I did OK paying $10,000 for this car?" I told him we will have to wait until we can get it running to answer that question.

H.L. I appreciate all of your good words and your philosophy. You know a lot about Model A's and a lot about life in general. Keep up the good work and words.
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