Permanent Vlnyl Top

[dlfrisch]

Had to remove the existing top. The 90 degree sections are touted out. HOW do they disassemble? It is a challenge, just removing the massive tact’s and staples. Maybe I can make the 90’s (pressure treated) then attach them to the stock cross lengths and the up - down lengths. Any ideas or procedures?
Dave

[rotorwrench]

I'm not sure what you mean by 90 degree sections. If you mean the bows, you might be able to do wood repairs or fabricate your own. There are reproductions available. The four braces all use screws of one type or another to hold them to the wood.


They didn't originally use staples. The tacks used weren't all that big either. If someone put anew top on and the wood was soft, they likely had to use something that would stay better.

[dlfrisch]

rotorwench - Thanks for your reply. It’s somewhat strange how the existing 90 degree corners are installed. I may have to pry the bad 90’s apart from the up wood in and fastened to the metal section of the door post. They also, have some kind of sealer (glue) and filler, like wood paddy on the end sections, fastening and filling in the voids. I have looked through Model A sections on my computer for information or suggested procedures regarding permanent- non retractable top care and replacement. Can’t find any published help. Seems like I am the only one with this project. Anyone with info ?
Dave

[Benson]

From question I am not sure if this is a Sport Coupe.

Fordwood dot com drawings will help you to ID parts in order to ask questions.

https://fordwood.com/

1. click on diagrams, get part number for the part in question and then

2. Click on parts list to better ID parts of body.


Photos would help.

[dlfrisch]

Benson: It is a Sport Coupe - the ID picture. I did check Fordwood. Looks like the top cross pieces are connected to the 90 degree corners and separate there. I’ll investigate it again today, and see what it may be. The lengths are OK - the 90’s are mostly rotten. I wonder if a wood filler (not plastic wood) is available on the market. Something that you can staple in.

[Bruce of MN]

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How about this: https://www.homedepot.com/p/3M-Bondo...0081/206680651

[rotorwrench]

Instructions come with the top kits but I would suggest you get volume 5 of the MAFCA "How to Restore Your Model A" series of books. It has a lot of information about the 28/29 and the 30/31 Sport Coupe models which are very similar in design. These are available from MAFCA or restoration parts sources.

Your center top bow ties into the roof rails above the doors with the metal brackets which give the bow its strength there. The rear bow is mostly all wood with the tie in at the quarter lock pillar (B pillar) at the triangle shaped gusset on the belt rail plus the two braces that connect it to the top bow and the other two that connect it to the belt rail wood. If your wood is soft or rotten then you will either need to fabricate new bows or purchase a sport coupe wood kit. The wood kit will still need some fitting but it's already fabricated so it saves a lot of work making them like Ford did. If your old wood is good for patterns then you can fabricate your own from them. These have to be solid enough to hold the top up and hard enough to hold the nails, screws, & tacks that hold the top in place with minimal movement. Rotten bows will sag and move around when you try to install the top.

[dlfrisch]

Thanks peoples - I’ll look at it tomorrow and make a decision. Bruce of MN the wood filler item looks pretty interesting.

[BRENT in 10-uh-C]

Originally Posted by dlfrisch

Had to remove the existing top. The 90 degree sections are touted out. HOW do they disassemble? It is a challenge, just removing the massive tact’s and staples. Maybe I can make the 90’s (pressure treated) then attach them to the stock cross lengths and the up - down lengths. Any ideas or procedures?
Dave

Dave, I still am not sure exactly what you are saying by "touted out" nor do I understand what you are saying by the 90s. If you are speaking of the A-52230-A and the A-52231-A Bows as for the pieces that are damaged/rotten, these are all one piece. Maybe yours are incorrect. None the less, I definitely would NOT make them out of pressure treated wood! I'm sure you also realize that putty does not have any structural strength, so I definitely would not use that either. Find you a good hardwood such as Ashe, Maple, or White Oak to make them out of.

FWIW, the commercially available bows are not correct in shape however in your case it may not matter. Below are some pictures that show what your top wood and interior panels are supposed to look like. If you have any other questions, ask away and I will try to answer them.

.
.

[dlfrisch]

Brent - I did’t notice.....I meant rotten. Your picture # 1 is the piece I’m working with. The section that goes over the front seat and is connected to the down wood in back of the doors. If, I can remove the existing pieces I can cut new ones - I have some good hard wood.
Dave

[Jack Shaft]

Originally Posted by dlfrisch

rotorwench - Thanks for your reply. It’s somewhat strange how the existing 90 degree corners are installed. I may have to pry the bad 90’s apart from the up wood in and fastened to the metal section of the door post. They also, have some kind of sealer (glue) and filler, like wood paddy on the end sections, fastening and filling in the voids. I have looked through Model A sections on my computer for information or suggested procedures regarding permanent- non retractable top care and replacement. Can’t find any published help. Seems like I am the only one with this project. Anyone with info ?
Dave

You are not alone,well only in the proprietary way the top patterns are held by vendors,you cant blame them for that..Ive got more detailed top bow and structure pictures if you need it,also a really nice set of pictures where a tinsmith fitted a sheet galvanized roof on one..

[Jack Shaft]

[Jack Shaft]

Brent,what are the padding pieces made out of? those are views I've been looking for,want to try and make my own padding..

[rotorwrench]

The cardboard or panel board pieces with the headlining material attached are available with the kits. There is one less maker of these kits now since Lebaron Bonney went away but I think there are still two suppliers left. A person can fabricate their own but it would take forms to mold the panel board and some experience doing stuff like that. There is also a heavy gauge wire that helps support the top edge of the panel board pieces to the bows & header. The support straps do the rest. All of this stuff is usually covered with the headlining on the inside.

[Jack Shaft]

Agreed,it does look like formed felt with a cardboard backing,probably formed with a mold.catching the correct roll in brents #5 picture is the desire,they look terrible with fabric just stretched over the bows in my opinion.

[Jack Shaft]

I have the heavy wire,just missing the canvass strap and the padding..might just buy a padding kit and explore my options,the neighbor sews canvas boat covers,has skill and the equipment..sunbrella come in a variety of colors

[rotorwrench]

Haartz Stayfast 3-ply material has been a standard for a long time but they also have vinyl materials for tops. Most of the old Sport Coupes has a rubberised cloth in a brown & tan color that looks light brown from a distance. They started using pyroxylin coated cloth that resembled leather as an option in later production.

Sunbrella is just a canvas material that is mostly used in boat manufacturing due to the constant exposure to sun light. It really doesn't make a very good automobile top.

[CHuDWah]

Originally Posted by rotorwrench

Haartz Stayfast 3-ply material has been a standard for a long time but they also have vinyl materials for tops. Most of the old Sport Coupes has a rubberised cloth in a brown & tan color that looks light brown from a distance. They started using pyroxylin coated cloth that resembled leather as an option in later production.

Sunbrella is just a canvas material that is mostly used in boat manufacturing due to the constant exposure to sun light. It really doesn't make a very good automobile top.

There's some top material info on Marco's old site:

https://web.archive.org/web/20130514...hop/diag-1.htm

AFAIK, original materials are not reproduced.

[rotorwrench]

Yeah, none of the old materials are reproduced since the materials are completely obsolete in the modern era. The tan whipcord was what they started out with and then they went to the seal brown artificial leathers with the pyroxylin material and even real leather if a person special ordered it. I've never seen any that was recognizable but I've seen photos of preserved materials. The old materials didn't last long in harsh environments. The stuff that Lebaron Bonney had was likely Stayfast if you ordered cloth and vinyl topping if you ordered faux leather.