ford 9n and model a motor

[ronn]

has anyone ever installed a model a motor in a 41 9n?


what are the challenges?

[fordwife]

For one thing, there might be interfrence between tne distributor and gas tank. If not you might have to pull the gas tank to get to the distributor. My question is, what would be the advantages of doing this, if it could be done?

[Keith True]

I just don't know what the gain would be.You would have to make an adapter to mate the a to the bellhousing,then make some kind of adapter to hold the front axle to the front of the A engine.Funk made conversions to use both the Ford flathead 6 and 8 cylinder engines in the 8N's.Part of the kit was panels to move the hood both up and forward.The flathead V8 conversions looked really neat,but in the tractor applications the flathead 6 pulled better.

[aermotor]

Don't mess up a good car or engine, that's like putting Ford engine in a Chevrolet or the other way around.

John

[Patrick L.]

I have a friend that insists they are the same. Can't convince him otherwise.

[ronn]

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interesting.......... looking at a dilapidated tractor that I think I can buy for next to nothing. I have a spare A engine here that runs well. why Im asking.


looks like it can be done.

[Keith True]

There have always been stories about the n series tractors using the A engine.Just like there were stories that the Fordson used the T motor.I think the throwout bearing is the same in the A as the N series Ford.The tractor engine was 120 cubic inches,and was actually used in the truck at some point,not the other way around.Has to be one of the poorest ideas Ford ever tried.There is one here in town that a family bought new,it was a couple mile trip to town but they would actually drive 4 or 5 to get there.They had to climb the hills at 10-15 MPH or drive around at 35.

[ronn]

that is funny Keith!


I guess transport is better then walking........of course bicycles are pretty fast nowadays.....

[rotorwrench]

Most car engine conversions with the fuel tank & sheet metal mods also required a structural frame to connect the front end to the transmission due to the fact that the little 9N/8N 119.7 cubic inch engine was designed to be an integral part of the frontal structure. Anyone who has driven an early Ford tractor for a good bit of time can attest to how hard they ride when encountering mud ruts or pot holes. That front end takes a beating and needs all the help it can get.

The 9N & 2N tractors have low compression when compared to the 8N which made about a 4.1 horse power difference between the two. The engines are very much the same design with only a few differences. The model A 200 CID engine with 40 horse power would almost double the horse power but everything else would remain the same. There is no provision for a tachometer on the Model A set up so that would be a needed addition as well. The flywheel & clutch would have to match the tractor and I don't know what would work best for a bell housing. The model B set up may be preferable. The top distributor is definitely a big work around. The Funk conversions used engines that either had front distributor mounting or side mounting so they didn't have the distributor work around problem. They also had better water pumps than the model A.

The governor is also a needed item on a tractor. The PTO RPM has to be maintained to keep loads from killing the engine. The original ball type 9N Novi governors may not be the best type for a conversion since they were gear drive. Funk likely used a belt drive set up that Ford used for industrial engine applications but I'm not sure exactly what it was. It may have been a modified original Novi type set up to run with a belt.

[Patrick L.]

The Funk conversions are desirable, always liked them. Especially the V8.

[Terry, NJ]

Why would anyone want to? Ford made good cars and trucks, but, tractors not so much! I had one, a 1952 8N and that cured me! I'll take a good International H or M over it any day. My cousin farmed 80 acres with his John Deere B from 1936 to 1992. The N model tractors are the most overrated of the bunch. Mine would slip on wet grass!
Terry

[w.michael]

It would be easier, and probably cheaper, to overhaul/ rebuild the tractor engine than to make the conversion, even with a running Model A engine in stock.

W. Michael

[ronn]

points well taken

[Jim Brierley]

It would be difficult but you would get a big gain in torque! I had an IHC model M, great tractor but without power steering my arms were dead after mowing my 2.5 acres and others nearby. I bought a worn out Ford 601 and just love it, oil leaks and all!

[rotorwrench]

I have a 1956 851 and it has plenty of poop with the larger OHV 4 banger. The early 9N & 2N are lighter duty but the later 8N isn't too bad. The later NAA & 600 series were a definite improvement.
My Pop had a 1956 Fordson Major that I learned on and it was a good machine. He traded it for a Ford 5000 and never looked back.

The Sherman transmission was a good Impovement on the older tractors. The Funk conversions give the little tractor more power but it doesn't make it a larger heavier duty machine. The transmission and tire size still limit the design.

[denniskliesen]

Dad had a 8n and I think it was a 501. Could be wrong on that but I remember it would outrun any tractor on the road. Then he traded them off for a Ford 5000 and had a turbo put on it. I remember mom had to go somewhere to pickup the stack from the chrome shop before he brought it home. I spent a lot of hrs behind the wheel of the 8n cultivating sugar beets in my younger years.

[40 Deluxe]

Originally Posted by Patrick L.

I have a friend that insists they are the same. Can't convince him otherwise.

Is your friend able to see a picture? Just show him a picture of a Model A engine along side of a picture of a 9N/2N/8N engine. The differences are obvious!

[40 Deluxe]

Originally Posted by ronn

points well taken

This conversion would not be practical from a dollar and cents perspective, but does it have to make sense? NO! The entire old car/tractor hobby does not make sense from a financial perspective! Nor does it have to! You can't quantify the sense of satisfaction we gain from completing whatever harebrained idea we dreamed up.
So if you have the time, funds and access to an old time machine shop, I say go for it!
As an example, in about 1949 or 50 an uncle of mine built his own tractor from scratch using a Model A engine. He was just over the age of 20 and had just bought a Lincoln A/C welder. He used a AA four speed trans, a 2 speed rear axle from an IH truck and some kind of heavy truck frame. It would pull a 2 bottom plow as good as an H Farmall, B John Deere or 8N Ford. In addition, he topped it off with a '32 Ford grill shell. After a few years he bought a WD Allis Chalmers and built a front end loader for the home built. He's now in his 90's and still has that Model A tractor, which still runs!

[ronn]

good points 40- my fatherinlaw built a tractor from scratch. 8th grade education and lived in Poland. had no $. he figured it out though.........


so after reading all of the comments, the choice will be to get the original engine running,

should I end up getting the tractor. that seems to be the easiest route and most practical. just wondered if the A engine was doable, as there is a nice one sitting out in the garage, that was always backup- but never needed.


thanking everyone for their comments.

[rotorwrench]

Most folks just made their old Model A into a tractor or doodle bug. many were derived from AA trucks with double transmissions to get good gearing.

Unless a person loves a good challenge & has a lot of resources, I'd just find a good motor and fix it. They all had sleeved blocks so a cracked block is usually the only thing that kills them. They were plenty good for what they were made to do. I'll stick with the OHV model since it does exactly what I want it for.