Rim Flaps! Another $112 + bucks?? come on.

[jim galli]

Are these really necessary for 30X3.5 clincher rims. Why are they so pricey. $28 bucks apiece for a piece of rubber?

Old timers, help me out here. Into tires and tubes $750 bucks, another $100 is killing me. I just can't see $112 worth of material there.

Talk me into them, or talk me out of them, but help me out either way.

I got the new tires and tubes last evening.

[Richard Wilson]

I have made rim flaps by cutting and triming the old inner tubes.

[gz]

You will here both pros and cons about the importance of using flaps. I have driven my 1912 T about 70K miles without flaps and never had a tire problem due to not having flaps. I always wrap the rim with about two layers of good old duct tape which is just the perfect width for a clincher rim and in my opinion, this will give all the protection you need.
I will say that most tire problems are the result of the condition of the rim. If you have rims that are not sharp, are not pitted and have no rough spots on the inside, you will probably be ok without flaps (in my opinion). Under-inflation is another problem-since your tires and tubes are new, they should be kept to about 60 pounds.

[Jack Innes]

I tend to agree that with new tires, tubes & clean, smooth rims you should be ok without flaps. The important factor is to keep the pressure up, 60 psi at least, 70 psi actually follows the old rule of 20 psi per inch of width.

I cannot remember taking a rotten old clincher tire off that was likely installed back when Ts were in real use, that had a flap in it.

An important step that is often missed is to inflate the new tires to hard then let ALL of the air out & re-inflate to the correct pressure. This allows any wrinkles in the tube to flatten out.

[[email protected]]

I was on a tour with a fellow last summer that after about 100 miles had a flat tire on a brand new tire and tube with rims that he claimed he'd cleaned up quite well before mounting them. The tire didn't just go flat it blew with enough force that people 4 cars ahead heard him and we were at a pretty good interval apart. Upon investigation we found he didn't put flaps in any of his brand new tires. The tube went down into the channel in the wheel and the tire rolled on it and it blew. Plain and simple, if you don't want to run flaps go ahead. But also be ready to suffer the consequences. The flaps change the profile of the inside of the tire/wheel combination. It helps form a channel for the tube to set in and protects it. I for one would never consider running without flaps. All tires with tubes have run flaps for a reason since they stopped running on solid rubber wheels. There's a reason for them. That inside profile is important. I say Pay the extra $ and protect yourself farther down the road. Blown out tires have killed people for years.

[FL&WVMIKE]

Sponsored Links (Register now to hide all advertisements)

jim galli .........................
Rim Flaps are, probably, good, but $112.00 is not.
This sure sounds like a rip-off to me !
I've heard of using duct-tape before, like gz stated. Richard Wilson stated how to make your own. Sounds good to me.
MIKE

[gz]

Jack makes another very good point. When I mount a clincher tire, I put the tube in the tire and mount the assembly as one unit. I then inflate to 20 pounds, bounce the wheel around or hit it with a rubber mallet and let the air out. I then inflate to 30 pounds and do the same, 40 pounds, etc etc until I'm at 60 psi. This gets all the wrinkles out and also eliminates the likely hood of the tube being caught in the clincher. Like Jack, I've taken tires off literally over 100 old Model T rims with era tires and rarely, if ever, have found a flap inside.

However, if you are mounting tires on one of the accessory wire wheels (Buffalo, new Mc Larens, Houk, etc) a flap might be in order as the separate laced spokes do tend to flex and can sometimes stick out too much on the tire side of the rim

[jim galli]

Thanks for all of the great reply's, both pro and con. I probably sound like a cheapskate, and I don't mind paying the price for stuff, but I simply can't see $28 bucks for one of these. At first I thought, well, that must be for a set of 4. Nope. $11 would be believable.

OK, guess I am a tightwad. Just a guy making wages.

[Steam Engine Pete]

I just mounted a set of tires recenctly and had the rim flaps. I thought they were pricey also since I thought they just wrapped around the rim like they did on my A. I was wrong. I put the tube in the tire and then these flaps fit inside the tire and kind of wrapped around the inner diameter of the tube so it was completely protected while mounting the tires. They are very heavy so if you happen to have your tire iron slip the tube is protected. I thought they were great and will use them again. Just wish they did not cost so much.

Pete

[stevests]

Be VERY, VERY careful mounting your new tires and tubes using the tire irons - when you pinch your new tube with the iron you will be thinking that the price of the flaps might not have been too high if you consider what your time is worth to demount and patch the tube. Wife & I just drove through Tonopah a couple months ago for the first time - interesting part of the country.

[redmodelt]

30 inch tires in the old days came together in the center, that's why you had to cut a groove for the valve stem. The new tires leave a gap. The liner bridges the gap keeping the tube in the tire. Unless the liners get messed up they should last through several sets of tires.

[blkdrgn71]

4 layers of good duct tape. My 2 cents has worked for me many of times.

[tmodelman]

Have always replaced that duct tape in rims, within a short time that tape disintegrates ( ever see any left outside for a while?) and chafes the tube.

Unless your rims are pristine, like new, flaps are the way to go for safe and trouble-free touring.

Flaps may add to the price of tires and tubes for antique cars with high pressure clincher rims of long ago: but that is the nature of the hobby.

Be sure the clincher edge of the rim is full and not rusted thin and sharp. The only way the clincher tire is held on is by that smooth rolled rim locked in the clincher rubber bead, and pressure of 65psi in the tube.

Today's heavy flaps protect tube on tire mounting, and protect the tube from the clincher tire opening as the beads are in the rim, exposing the sharp tire edges and rusted or sharp rim to the delicate rubber tube under high pressure.

[[email protected]]

Great explanation tmodelman. A lot of people get it in their heads that duct tape is the answer to everything. They all remind me of Red Green. The difference between them and Red Green is, Red knows he's not serious. I know so many conscientious model t owners who purposely do things the right way. And I also know a lot of model t owners who think baling wire and duct tape are genuine Ford products. I'm trying right now to correct a couple cars owned by the latter and their fixes have done a lot of needless damage. And the corrections are becoming expensive.

[jim galli]

Thanks to all. I'll probably settle down and just buy them in a month or 2 after the pain of tire and motor costs subsides a bit

[fordman67]

Just think of it as insurance on the tubes and tires that cost SO much!

[Wick]

just placed a order for tires tubes and flaps for the rear of the TT....flaps what the heck,I could spend that much on my lady friend on a saturday night,have you checked the price of condoms lately!!!

[yachtsmanbill]

Theyre probably vietnamese too! ws

[jim galli]

Originally Posted by Wick

......have you checked the price of condoms lately!!!

mmmmmm........no.

[Richard Wilson]

" And I also know a lot of model t owners who think baling wire and duct tape are genuine Ford products." GarrisonM89

That goes double for Model A guys. I have told others before that a man could make a fortune if he could make some Ford script duct tape and coat hangers (to cheap to buy bailing wire).

[[email protected]]

Originally Posted by Wick

just placed a order for tires tubes and flaps for the rear of the TT....flaps what the heck,I could spend that much on my lady friend on a saturday night,have you checked the price of condoms lately!!!

I hear ya Wick. I mean it's bad enough a guy has to pay them to be a friend for a night and then to have to pay that kind of money for condoms is ridiculous.

[oldmotorsguy]

Great philosophical discussion, this tube flap flap.

On the one hand, you have the worry worts: do it just like the book says, and make sure you disinfect the rim with denatured alcohol, then take the surface down a micron or two with some 480 grit sandpaper, and make sure to cover every single square millimeter, lest disaster result. And to ensure maximum reliability, melt some gold into all the uneven surfaces of the rim (only 24 karat gold, that cheapie stuff will fail, trust me...). If you really want to be safe, then melt pure platinum into all the crevices, this will ensure maxium reliability. That, or buy flaps....but these worry worts tend to go with the platinum...

Then comes my crowd: duct tape. The physics involved here are simply friction creating a pinch point against a plyable tube. Minimize it, and allow the tube to do what it's designed to do. Duct tape will indeed do this with virtually minimum chance of failure, assuming you cover all areas where the tube will want to erroneously wander.

Jim, your concern is well founded. Flaps were not original equipment on Model T's, these were invented by tire companies, who know that worry warts are a great market.

Duct tape at Home Depot: $1.99 a role, on sale. Your best bet.

[yachtsmanbill]

Hey OMG That kinda talk across the hall would get you a time out in the corner kneeling on an asphalt shingle! Dont you know that the gold CANNOT be electroplated but hand burnished from gold leaf! The judges can tell, you know? A twelve year old told me that! LOL ws

[[email protected]]

Originally Posted by oldmotorsguy

Great philosophical discussion, this tube flap flap.

On the one hand, you have the worry worts: do it just like the book says, and make sure you disinfect the rim with denatured alcohol, then take the surface down a micron or two with some 480 grit sandpaper, and make sure to cover every single square millimeter, lest disaster result. And to ensure maximum reliability, melt some gold into all the uneven surfaces of the rim (only 24 karat gold, that cheapie stuff will fail, trust me...). If you really want to be safe, then melt pure platinum into all the crevices, this will ensure maxium reliability. That, or buy flaps....but these worry worts tend to go with the platinum...

Then comes my crowd: duct tape. The physics involved here are simply friction creating a pinch point against a plyable tube. Minimize it, and allow the tube to do what it's designed to do. Duct tape will indeed do this with virtually minimum chance of failure, assuming you cover all areas where the tube will want to erroneously wander.

Jim, your concern is well founded. Flaps were not original equipment on Model T's, these were invented by tire companies, who know that worry warts are a great market.

Duct tape at Home Depot: $1.99 a role, on sale. Your best bet.

Wow. You actually believe duct tape was invented to take the place of tire flaps. Apparently you've never seen a blow out that was caused by not having a flap in the tire. I have. Your over-emphasis of what you call worry "worts" (whatever the hell that is) by going off the deep end with the whole disinfecting, gold-plating, platinum filling bullshit only shows your insecurity with your ability to provide a valid argument. Genius experts like you get people killed. So keep using your duct tape and baling wire fixes but you really should stop making dangerous suggestions to people. It's crap like you spread that gives the lawyers in this country fodder to stay in business and become politicians. Maybe the millions of truck drivers on our nations highways should pull the flaps out of their tires too. I'm certain the duct tape manufacturers would like that. Until they were also named in another bullshit lawsuit brought on by people who use your kind of logic.

Mike Garrison

[[email protected]]

Originally Posted by yachtsmanbill

Hey OMG That kinda talk across the hall would get you a time out in the corner kneeling on an asphalt shingle! Dont you know that the gold CANNOT be electroplated but hand burnished from gold leaf! The judges can tell, you know? A twelve year old told me that! LOL ws

And you spout more bullshit than oldmotorsguy. You goofy old fart.

[jim galli]

Sponsored Links (Register now to hide all advertisements)

Com si com sa. I'm taking a little offense to being made to feel like I'm a bailing wire hack just for asking the question. Appreciate all the answers. Wisdom on everything from birth control to world domination.

[yachtsmanbill]

TODAY MINNESOTA... TOMORROW, Za VORLT. Holy cow Mike! That VA doctor mustve been a sourpuss female Colonel and said nothing was wrong and you should just go home and tell yerself its all in yer head!
Ive got a ping pong paddle with your name on it you old cranky so and so or Zo und Zo.
Now I hafta go start the T in the closed garage and have a seat behind the wheel for a few hours! Sure glad it runs on three bangers! ws

[[email protected]]

Naw, your not a baling wire hack. I just typed a long post to tell how much I actually know about tire flaps and all like that because when it comes right down to it I don't know squat. But my computer lost the websit and I'm typing this on my telephone. The 3G network always comes through when my provider can't. But I just love creating adversarial situations and stirring the pot On most forums I'm considered a "troll". But because of the politeness of the old farts on this site they'd rather present me with valid arguments then tell me I'm full of crap. There's no way after my last post that I can imagine I haven't pissed oldmotorsguy and yachtsmanbill off and it was my intent to get someone heated up and see where it takes me. 2 of my favorite posts in this forum include tire flaps and whether to use detergent or nondetergent motor oil. Because it can really turn into a good debate. Oldmotors guy probably said it best when he said tire flaps were invented by tire companies to bilk millions of dollars out of unsuspecting automobile owners. But there's no way in he_l I'm going to let him think I agree with him afterall where's the fun in that. Duct tape probably works just fine. I really don't know. The best way to find out is to try it and find out. You know your curious anyway so now if you'll excuse me my work here is finished. I'm going to finish my Windsor and go lay by my dish.

[[email protected]]

Oh, and for the record; if you ever get a chance to look under my '26 sedan look at the exhaust hanger. It's baling wire.

[B-nut]

You guys are great entertainment! Thanks!

[CharlieB]

Jim: save your nickles & dimes and do as you say you'll do. Buy the flaps when you can. I know that some guys use duct tape but it's the falsest of false economies. Personal experience: Had a re-done '27 Tudor bought cheap from an estate sale. Everything on the car was done. paint, interior, the works. After 2 years or so I thought the tires looked lousy. (cracks, ect.). Ordered new tires, tubes & flaps. I pulled the old ones off and was surprised to find the remains of duct tape "flaps" wound on the rims. The tape had deteriorated to the point that it was basically dust. All 4 tubes had markings and wear at the joint of the split rims. It was just a matter of time.

[John Danuser]

Its not the cost of the flap and tubes but Fedex and UPS getting them to you that makes them so high, as a dealer I know

[28Ca8149]

I bought a c1915 model t camper ,has 4 wheels . I am restoring it now .The wheels were a problem getting the tires off .There was no liners and the tubes were red .Because the wheels are a little rusty I will have to use liners .The fellow I bought this from for $10,He told me he went 800 miles to Vancouver and back behind his 8cylinder car. in the 30s. He had put Timkin bearings in the wheels

[redmodelt]

And yes I have removed tires from back in the day that had flaps in them, they are not a new thing. See my post why tires today should have flaps, it's back on the first page.

[dumb person]

Originally Posted by 28Ca8149

I bought a c1915 model t camper ,has 4 wheels . I am restoring it now .The wheels were a problem getting the tires off .There was no liners and the tubes were red .Because the wheels are a little rusty I will have to use liners .The fellow I bought this from for $10,He told me he went 800 miles to Vancouver and back behind his 8cylinder car. in the 30s. He had put Timkin bearings in the wheels

Best tube ever. Modern red ones are not the same.

[tinman080]

Originally Posted by Wick

just placed a order for tires tubes and flaps for the rear of the TT....flaps what the heck,I could spend that much on my lady friend on a saturday night,have you checked the price of condoms lately!!!

I guess it depends on how ''heavy duty'' your brand is....hahahaha

[Royce P]

Ford never put a flap in any Model T. Neither have I. Flaps are to keep the inexperienced from puncturing a tube while installing it. For some, they are mandatory. I wear tires completely out, never have had a flat that could have been prevented by a flap. Learn how to install clincher tires properly and you won't ever need one either.

Here's how to do it:
https://modeltfordfix.com/time-to-re...lincher-tires/