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Old 05-26-2020, 12:19 AM   #21
Brian
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Default Re: Eagle 4" 8BA Crank?

I dunno; I built a stroker with a genuine Merc crankshaft that was definitely made of steel. Apparent when drilling the counterweights during the balancing process; iron does not have swarf that comes off in long continuous strips.
I always use steel forged cams in all my builds. They are readily apparent to the eye as they are fully machined, however, I have noticed that if you suspend one and tap it with a metallic object, it'll ring, clear as a bell. The later cast cams won't; just a dull 'thud'.
Pretty hard to 'suspend' any flathead crank whilst giving it a 'ring' test, but I'm pretty sure the acoustics will differ from a cast crank.
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Old 05-26-2020, 02:03 AM   #22
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Default Re: Eagle 4" 8BA Crank?

I'm a aircraft machinist, that had my own machine shop (still have it but, I'm retired now), up until the time I retired, in 2007, I new the Mil Specs for that time period.

You do not, weld any thing that goes on a aircraft, unless it's had FAA approvals, heat treat and a lengthy inspection that includes X-ray, that went with it. Extremely costly! And you sure didn't use dissimilar metals in the weld, as I would assume you would have to do with a cast iron crank (high nickle). You can weld cast by heating the whole crank, block or head to it's critical temp, weld it with cast rod and anneal it after, also expensive, if you can find someone that will do it.

Then after you do all that, you will have to have it ground. The cheapest I found that was $250.

I'm NO fan of China, for sure but, I would buy a Eagle crank first, for over a 4 1/8 stroke.
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Old 05-26-2020, 09:13 AM   #23
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Default Re: Eagle 4" 8BA Crank?

Oh yes, the old mythical STEEL Merc cranks. I have never seen one. More folklore. If they were made they did not follow the original Ford material specifications. All the 1 CM cranks had the torque converter counterbore and that is the only difference.
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Old 05-26-2020, 11:30 AM   #24
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Default Re: Eagle 4" 8BA Crank?

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Oh yes, the old mythical STEEL Merc cranks. I have never seen one. More folklore. If they were made they did not follow the original Ford material specifications. All the 1 CM cranks had the torque converter counterbore and that is the only difference.
Ah yes, the "guru" has spoken. We all realize, John, that if you didn't see it, it never happened.....LOL
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Old 05-26-2020, 01:34 PM   #25
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Default Re: Eagle 4" 8BA Crank?

"Pete" - I see you are in Washington state. The only other person who has seen one is "Brian", from New Zealand. Perhaps these are Canadian made?
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Old 05-26-2020, 02:10 PM   #26
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Default Re: Eagle 4" 8BA Crank?

Donīt think itīs location related...itīs more time related...
All iīve seen is late with the big rear bore to take the automatic transmission.
And they are cast in the same process as the Y-block cranks so thinking in the transition period to Y-block they where made.
We all know ford did reuse and use what was available..
I have a NOS EAB crank here that is steel...in the ford box!
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Old 05-26-2020, 02:33 PM   #27
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Default Re: Eagle 4" 8BA Crank?

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Donīt think itīs location related...itīs more time related..........

I have a NOS EAB crank here that is steel...in the ford box!
Now that I have never heard of. Where was that crank made? Since you're in Sweden, maybe it is "location related".
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Old 05-26-2020, 02:36 PM   #28
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Default Re: Eagle 4" 8BA Crank?

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"Pete" - I see you are in Washington state. The only other person who has seen one is "Brian", from New Zealand. Perhaps these are Canadian made?
I have heard from several people that they might be but don't have any info on that.

I had 4 of them over the years. In the 50's I had a friend that worked in the tear down area of the local authorized Ford rebuild plant. He would check all cranks that came through the shop and save me any steel ones. He went through hundreds. There were not many.

Another way to tell if it is steel is when you weld on them. I used to turn the OD of the crank down .750 and then weld plates on the counterweight sides to balance them. It made a VERY noticeable difference in how quick the engine would spool up.
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Old 05-26-2020, 02:39 PM   #29
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Default Re: Eagle 4" 8BA Crank?

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Now that I have never heard of. Where was that crank made? Since you're in Sweden, maybe it is "location related".

Hey! Maybe he picked it up in Minnesota, ya?
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Old 05-26-2020, 03:44 PM   #30
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Default Re: Eagle 4" 8BA Crank?

Or Canada, eh?
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Old 05-26-2020, 04:17 PM   #31
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Default Re: Eagle 4" 8BA Crank?

I have no idee what plant that crank came originally from...but sold here in sweden as a replacement back in the days.
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Old 05-26-2020, 04:30 PM   #32
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Default Re: Eagle 4" 8BA Crank?

These Chinese sourced cranks are used extensively in small/big block Fords, Chevys, Dodges, etc. The come in cast as well as Forged alloys. They, as well as the connecting rods have proven themselves. They've been around since the 90's, and people are making big horsepower with them. I have a 4340 SCAT crank for my 363 (302) Ford that will make around 600 hp off the bottle, with another 200+ added with nitrous, and close to 8k rpm.

What you run into with the foreign cranks is not strength. Issues that generally need addressed, are balance and journal sizing. Journals can run on the large side, and not provide enough bearing clearance in some cranks. Another issue is balance. Balance is more prevalent in the cheaper cast cranks. Some can take a little extra work on the balance machine.

But, as for the core crank, they are generally pretty good stuff. On most, the journals will be just fine. Most will also have no issues on the balance machine. It's just something that needs checked.

Connecting rods tend to be plenty strong, but need to have their big ends checked by a machine shop before use... which should be the case with any connecting rod. Many will not be within spec.

NOTHING wrong with the Chinese cranks/rods... but use your due diligence, and double check the machine work. It sometimes needs a little attention.

Good Luck
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Old 05-26-2020, 06:25 PM   #33
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Default Re: Eagle 4" 8BA Crank?

"Pete" - I see you are in Washington state. The only other person who has seen one is "Brian", from New Zealand. Perhaps these are Canadian made?



The one I used I bought off of eBay. I no longer have the sellers spiel, but it was something along the lines of he was a racer and this crank was one of two built by some legendary flathead guru. It was a beautiful [if you can call a crankshaft beautiful] thing. Had a bluish tinge to it...I think it had been nitrided. It had been installed in an 8BA block, because I got the steel main bearing caps with it. This crankshaft now resides in my mates [kiwitony] 284 powered 37 pickup. But that crankshaft is definitely steel. About the only other detail I can recall about it is that it had a big recess in the flywheel end, dunno if all Merc cranks have that.
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Old 05-26-2020, 06:32 PM   #34
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Default Re: Eagle 4" 8BA Crank?

The 1CM crank was the one made for automatic transmission use. It likely carried through to the end of production of flathead parts. Ford may have outsourced some in the years following 1953 for replacement parts. Canadian Mercury's had the Y-block in 54 but they may have produced some cranks. It likely would have had a C on it somewhere though.
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Old 05-26-2020, 07:35 PM   #35
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Default Re: Eagle 4" 8BA Crank?

Most of the "Y" block cranks were Shelll molded. Some of the Ford 53 cranks were also shell molded. The look like a forged crank and are made from Marninsite iron with Magnesium and cast iron. Thes cranks don't have the brakaway area like the cast crank which as a group of four.A sad note the Ford industral rebuilding plant on Patterson NY didn't rebuld Mecury engines and when a 4" crank was found in a block it was scraped. The did the rebuilding for Sears and others. Boy that waz along time ago
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Old 05-26-2020, 10:52 PM   #36
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Default Re: Eagle 4" 8BA Crank?

I also built a French flathead with a steel crank. It was however, 3 3/4 stroke. Are the French 4" stroke cranks steel?
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Old 05-27-2020, 05:53 AM   #37
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Default Re: Eagle 4" 8BA Crank?

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I also built a French flathead with a steel crank. It was however, 3 3/4 stroke. Are the French 4" stroke cranks steel?
You have me wondering now if they are. It’s in the garage so I’ll check
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Old 05-27-2020, 10:13 AM   #38
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Default Re: Eagle 4" 8BA Crank?

I would just as soon run the stock 8BA crank. Never could understand why anyone stroked a flathead anyway, when they lacked RPM, not torque. Nice 8BA cranks are all over the place too. I must have at least 6 of them and all std. Usually the blocks were cracked and scrapped and cranks saved. I ran an 8CM crank in one of them and never noticed any difference in power.
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Old 05-27-2020, 01:01 PM   #39
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Default Re: Eagle 4" 8BA Crank?

All other things equal, cubic inches, create more HP and torque. That's why Ford went from 221 to 239 to 255. That's why the V8 60 didn't last long, either. Only the Midgets kept that engine in the public eye.

If you put a 4" crank, in a 239 engine, you should have a noticeable power increase if a good valve job goes with it. Other wise there is some other issue with the engine.
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Old 05-27-2020, 05:48 PM   #40
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Default Re: Eagle 4" 8BA Crank?

Airflow is what dictates maximum potential horsepower. You could bore/stroke a flathead out to 500ci, and it wouldn't turn over 1200 rpm before it was maxed out in the breathing department. Only thing it would be good for is a tractor. Horsepower requires airflow. Once the airflow path is maxed out, it's simply maxed out.

We'll ignore the 500ci reference, as it was only to make a point. When an engine has limited airflow, adding more displacement doesn't make that much more peak horsepower. It's main effect is lowering the rpm where peak horsepower is made. It also tends to add torque.

If you have an airflow limited engine making 200 hp at 5000 rpm, and then add stroke... It will likely still make 200 hp, but do so at let's say 4500 rpm, while adding more average power below that peak.
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