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01-04-2022, 12:30 PM | #1 |
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1929 Pickup interior
I am looking at getting judged in the restorers class this year and would like some assistance. I cannot find anywhere a picture of link as to what the interior looked like for my '29 pickup. What pedals, carpet or rubber mat, mirrors, cloth, etc.. Does anyone have a link they can direct me to?
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01-04-2022, 12:59 PM | #2 |
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Re: 1929 Pickup interior
You need the "Restoration Guidelines and Judging Standards"
https://www.mafca.com/pub_standards.html |
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01-04-2022, 05:12 PM | #3 | |
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Re: 1929 Pickup interior
Quote:
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01-04-2022, 06:07 PM | #4 |
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Re: 1929 Pickup interior
I think you are going to have a really hard time getting into judging without that book.
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01-04-2022, 06:21 PM | #5 |
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Re: 1929 Pickup interior
the back rest and seat cushion are the only upholstered items. the kick panels were vinyl covered cardboard. there was no headliner or door coverings. the floor mat was a pattern stamped rubber mat. no carpet.
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1928 "A" Phaeton (mid year with many early features) 1933 "V8" Closed-Cab Pickup Truck (originally a Model B, 4 Cylinder dating to May, 1933)
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01-05-2022, 01:18 AM | #6 | |
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Re: 1929 Pickup interior
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The Judging Standards and Restoration Guidelines includes the requirements for each class and the award structure of both MARC and MAFCA. I highly recommend you purchase the most current version from either club or at the very least get a copy on the secondary market. You will find text information about the interior for your model in this publication as well as a wealth of other information. Pictures may be found in other sources…I don’t know specifically as I’m not an expert on your model… but I know there is someone out there who is an expert. |
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01-05-2022, 11:03 AM | #7 | ||
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Re: 1929 Pickup interior
Quote:
Quote:
Regarding your questions about pedals, rubber mat, mirrors and cloth, -...the pedals had a couple of versions that you will likely need to refer to the RG&JS book, -the rubber floor mat used in the 82A was the same as open cars however the commercially available floor mats will need to be altered and canvas added to be correct, -the only mirror available on the 82A was an exterior mirror (-nothing mounted on the interior), -and the only cloth used was the foundation and the tail on the seat cushions, and the underside of the roof lining. No other cloth used. . Last edited by BRENT in 10-uh-C; 01-05-2022 at 12:49 PM. Reason: (correct typo) |
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01-05-2022, 12:07 PM | #8 | |
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Re: 1929 Pickup interior
Quote:
Dkrahn, Your pickup has a cab which had an interior. You don't indicate which cab you have (82-A closed cab or 76-A open cab). FYI - The cabs used on the A-chassis and on the AA-chassis are one in the same. If your vehicle has the 82-A closed cab, some information/pictures are found at: https://aafords.com/cabs/82-a-closed...ab-details/#tv https://aafords.com/aa-body-types/mats/ https://aafords.com/aa-body-types/mirrors/ The above links are for AAFords.com – but the 82-A information applies to the A-chassis cab as well.
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01-05-2022, 12:58 PM | #9 |
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Re: 1929 Pickup interior
Here is what my 28 cab looks like.
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01-05-2022, 07:50 PM | #10 |
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Re: 1929 Pickup interior
Check with the local clubs in your area. and take a road trip to go look at.
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01-05-2022, 07:52 PM | #11 |
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Re: 1929 Pickup interior
Mafca has a restorers class, that differs from fine point judging. It is for cars that are frequently driven.
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Bill Worden 1929 Roadster 1929 Briggs Town Sedan 1930 Closed Cab pickup Smith Motor Compressor 1951 Ford F1 High Desert Model A's |
01-05-2022, 11:33 PM | #12 |
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Re: 1929 Pickup interior
Oops my bad, Leonard in post #9 above has the pics to tell the story. The doors are covered.
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1928 "A" Phaeton (mid year with many early features) 1933 "V8" Closed-Cab Pickup Truck (originally a Model B, 4 Cylinder dating to May, 1933)
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01-06-2022, 06:38 AM | #13 |
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Re: 1929 Pickup interior
Actually, while Leonard’s truck does look nice, it is incorrect on many levels if being compared to what it looked like originally. The doors should NOT be covered.
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01-06-2022, 07:04 AM | #14 |
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Re: 1929 Pickup interior
https://www.ecklers.com/media/catalo...4/64-51740.jpg
Macs and others Might be good, lots of volume, never seen it in person |
01-06-2022, 10:09 AM | #15 |
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Re: 1929 Pickup interior
That looks very similar to the interior of my 28ccpu. I've wondered how original it all is.....or, rather true to original. The restoration was done by a previous owner.
eog |
01-06-2022, 10:16 AM | #16 |
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Re: 1929 Pickup interior
My restoration was also done by a previous owner. I’ve owned it since 2009 and I like the interior whether it’s correct or not. I’m not a car show guy, so correctness of the interior isn’t important.
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01-06-2022, 10:27 AM | #17 | |
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Re: 1929 Pickup interior
Quote:
eog |
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01-06-2022, 01:57 PM | #18 | |
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Re: 1929 Pickup interior
Quote:
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01-06-2022, 02:19 PM | #19 | |
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Re: 1929 Pickup interior
Quote:
eog |
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01-06-2022, 02:21 PM | #20 |
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Re: 1929 Pickup interior
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01-06-2022, 03:17 PM | #21 |
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Re: 1929 Pickup interior
Here's a Hemmings article about a purportedly unrestored '29 mail truck that includes a shot of the interior with uncovered doors.
https://www.hemmings.com/stories/202...r-leaving-town |
01-06-2022, 04:05 PM | #22 |
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Re: 1929 Pickup interior
Here is what the MARC / MAFCA Restoration Guidelines show for the interior of a 1928 to mid 1930 A Pickup.
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01-06-2022, 04:11 PM | #23 |
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Re: 1929 Pickup interior
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01-06-2022, 04:16 PM | #24 |
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Re: 1929 Pickup interior
That would be extremely helpful to this post. I know Lebaron Bonney kits had slightly padded door panels. It would be great to see one as it is supposed to be. Brent, I would think you would have done a CC pickup?
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01-06-2022, 04:20 PM | #25 |
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Re: 1929 Pickup interior
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01-06-2022, 04:23 PM | #26 | |
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Re: 1929 Pickup interior
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01-06-2022, 07:15 PM | #27 |
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Re: 1929 Pickup interior
As a mail truck it would have nothing in common with the body of a pickup.Also,as a mail truck I would guess it's had a dozen different seats over the years.The local mail carriers here get about 10 months out of a seat cover.Plus the bolsters break down,and a couple of the side coils always seem to be broken.That truck was kept running as needed,not restored.It's going to have lots of replaced parts on it.
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01-07-2022, 12:11 AM | #28 | |
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Re: 1929 Pickup interior
Quote:
Yes I do, and I will reach out to the OP. |
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01-07-2022, 09:09 AM | #29 |
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Re: 1929 Pickup interior
Hey fellas... Lets not argue. If there is a copyright problem, the owner of said copyright can contact me.
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01-07-2022, 09:27 AM | #30 |
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Re: 1929 Pickup interior
Yes I do, and I will reach out to the OP.[/QUOTE]
Brent, If you would want to PM me with the pictures as well, that would be awesome! I am refurbishing a 28 CC pickup and I would love to see how the original type cardboards look vs. my old L&B kit. Thanks |
01-07-2022, 09:33 AM | #31 |
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Re: 1929 Pickup interior
Some photos of original upholstery panels are shown at https://aafords.com/cabs/82-a-closed...cab-details/#u.
The cardboard panels are not available today (as far as I know). The kit vendors simulate the panels by covering plain cardboard with seat material.
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01-07-2022, 10:18 AM | #32 |
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Re: 1929 Pickup interior
Ford used a lot of embossed paper based materials is the more utilitarian applications of the products they made. Some folks just label it as card board but that would only be similar in nature. The embossed material used is similar to some forms of chip board or panel board to make it more resistant to moisture and it also had some color to it which would suggest that it was treated with resins and colorants during the manufacture of it.
According to "The Ford Model A, As Henry Built It" Spanish brown colonial grain panel board was used in the 1928 Commercials. In January of 1929 the color was changed to black Arabian grain panel board with brown only remaining in the Panel Delivery type models. In 1930 & 31 a change was made to black cobra cross grain panel board. They may have sewn on fabric borders to the edges as indicated in the photos from the link but the edge looks to be only around a quarter inch of overlap if that material is in fact original. My old walking foot machine can easily sew through most types of panel board. The use in basic open cabs was limited to the door, cowl, and quarter areas. In 1928/29 closed cabs it is listed as door, cowl, quarter, windshield header, and lock pillar. In 1930/31 the roof side rail covering is added. There is only mention of roof covering in the larger panel delivery models and it's listed as masonite along with the covering for the rear door or doors. The book also mentions a cardboard covering that was reinforced with galvanized steel mesh and was referred to as steel craft but its use seems to be confined to the Deluxe Delivery model, according to the book, which resembles the Tudor Sedan. This stuff may have also been used in other panel delivery type models for rear quarter coverings but I don't know that with any certainty. Masonite may have also been used. A person would have to research stuff like this further at the Henry Ford to have any certainty. Ford Commercial vehicles were pretty spartan in nature due to their use as utility vehicles. They only made a few fancy models such as the Town Car Delivery and a person had to pay a lot more for them. I'm all for folks fixing there vehicles up the way they want them but fine point judging generally catches any non-authentic items. Last edited by rotorwrench; 01-07-2022 at 10:28 AM. |
01-07-2022, 12:49 PM | #33 | |
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Re: 1929 Pickup interior
Quote:
As far as the material used. I have not found that Masonite was used on the 82A cabs. I have some samples of the original material. It is definitely a layered group of thicker-type Black paper sheets with a color sheet printed for the exterior ...and all the sheets glued together. It was then embossed (-possible when initially glued together(??). I have been experimenting using regular water-resistant panel board, wetting the outside layers and then embossing using a leather press with dies used to make wallets. I have also used the same dies to emboss it dry. It seems to be working well holding its shape with either however I have not tried to manufacture the dies with small grained embossing that would be necessary for the kick panels. I have attached 3 photos showing my experiment results. FWIW, I would likely never make the financial investment in a die to do the doors on a closed-cab pick-up as the expense for the kick panels alone will be huge. My plan is to draw the reverse image of the grain in CAD, and then use a CNC Router to carve the grain pattern into a billet of 6061 alloy. Then build a mechanical press to emboss the material and leave it under pressure while it dries. Again, attached below is a few pix of what I have embossed into scrap cardboard panel board. This has just been an experiment to see what is possible and noting the smaller graining in the horse's mane. The next three pix show an original kick panel with a portion of the top layer torn away revealing the black paper, and then the next two clearly showing the pattern. . . |
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01-07-2022, 02:57 PM | #34 | |
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Re: 1929 Pickup interior
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It truly takes away from the volunteer efforts of so many dedicated people. Maybe that is why people like Marco stay away from this site. You all lose in the end when those with the “real” knowledge and skill leave. Moderator, just ban me if you think this is sooooo inflammatory. |
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01-07-2022, 03:03 PM | #35 | |
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Re: 1929 Pickup interior
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Brent certainly does it the right way, by quoting or putting the information in his own words and crediting the source! Of course this takes more time and effort than snapping a picture. Good for you Brent!!! |
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01-07-2022, 03:12 PM | #36 | |
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Re: 1929 Pickup interior
Quote:
Honest question - what's the point of arguing over this? I feel like I must be missing something. And if I am, I'm 100% open to hearing about it... not at all interested in arguing like a politician on twitter though... Gonna send an email to MAFCA right now and see what they think... To me, it should be their call... |
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01-07-2022, 03:20 PM | #37 | |
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Re: 1929 Pickup interior
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Isn't this forum pretty much the same as a bunch of guys discussing model A's at a club meeting? It's hard for me to say, but once the content of published works is committed to memory, then it can be discussed openly elsewhere.....but, when it's quoted, then the source should be accredited..? eog |
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01-07-2022, 03:31 PM | #38 | |
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Re: 1929 Pickup interior
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It’s akin to pirating music or photocopying liturature and passing it out for free. Someone spent the time and effort to produce the work and it likely wasn’t YOU. It takes away from the effort of others and takes income away from MARC/MAFCA! |
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01-07-2022, 03:37 PM | #39 | |
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Re: 1929 Pickup interior
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Regardless, I've sent them an email... I think that's probably a better way to handle it than to argue... |
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01-07-2022, 03:41 PM | #40 |
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Re: 1929 Pickup interior
If both MARC and MAFCA don’t care then I will stand down despite my own opinions.
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01-07-2022, 03:50 PM | #41 |
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Re: 1929 Pickup interior
Here is a picture of a 1931 AA truck original interior. I know that it is not a 28-29 but many of the pieces would be similar.
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01-07-2022, 03:58 PM | #42 |
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Re: 1929 Pickup interior
Note that the seat cushion has a panel which wraps down the front/sides and has darts. All vendor kits that I have seen are not upholstered like original.
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01-07-2022, 04:01 PM | #43 | |
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Re: 1929 Pickup interior
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Kick panel.....is that the proper term? eog |
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01-07-2022, 04:17 PM | #44 |
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Re: 1929 Pickup interior
Do you think they are darts, or just places where the vinyl has come off the backing? Maybe that’s where the upholstery creases when you sit on the seat.
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01-07-2022, 04:51 PM | #45 | |
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Re: 1929 Pickup interior
Quote:
EOG, The right-side cowl panel has a map-pocket. That was standard for the 82-B closed cab (sold by vendors now). The 82-A closed cab had map-pockets on each side at the quarter panels. See attached (look close to see the pocket).
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01-07-2022, 05:05 PM | #46 | |
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Re: 1929 Pickup interior
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LeonardS, Actually, those are darts. The panel must have darts to allow it to wrap the edges. Attached is an original 82-A seat cushion (well worn).
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01-07-2022, 05:06 PM | #47 |
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Re: 1929 Pickup interior
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01-07-2022, 05:06 PM | #48 |
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Re: 1929 Pickup interior
Here is an 82A seat, you can see the darts in the back and bottom cushion.
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01-07-2022, 06:00 PM | #49 | |
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Re: 1929 Pickup interior
Quote:
Yes, I have those two map pockets you show in the pic. Pardon me for being dumb, but what does 82-A, and 82-B indicate? eog |
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01-07-2022, 06:52 PM | #50 |
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Re: 1929 Pickup interior
82-A is the early,28-mid 30 closed cab.Around here we call them square cabs.Other parts of the country they were called phone booth cabs.82-B is the mid 30 on,the more rounded cab.
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01-08-2022, 10:50 AM | #51 |
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Re: 1929 Pickup interior
I'm not sure what is being referred to as "Darts". Vinyl did not exist in the materials that Ford used at the time. The Faux leather or leatherette was a pyroxylin coated fabric with different grains embossed on it to give it a look of leather. When leather was used on deluxe models it was many times only located on the seating surfaces of the upper and lower cushions.
I can see the seating surface material and the lower valance portion separated by the piping between the two on the lower cushion in posts numbered 46 & 48, On the upper cushion of post 48, the seating surface is a normal material and the part that surrounds the spring box appears to be a cloth material on the sides and a seating material over the top with piping only on the top where it all can be seen while installed in the cab. I don't know it Ford originally did it this way but I wouldn't be surprised if they did. These vehicles were very much for utility and the accommodations for seating were too. I wouldn't be surprised if the two authors of the book I referenced in post #32 were not complete as to other panel board types or grain patterns. They didn't make any reference to the difference between the early square cab and the late Budd closed cab either. The one Brent shows in post #33 looks similar to some "Dash" or "Chicken Foot" patterns that Ford used. I figure that Ford had a corner over at the old Highland Park plant where they made the panel board materials or they farmed it out and purchased in rolls or bales. They likely used rollers to press together layers & emboss larger sheets of the board stock that could be cut with pattern dies into all the shapes they needed with minimal waste of materials. Most lower cowl areas and the rumble seat side areas were covered with panel boards such as these as well a Commercial vehicle interior coverings. This was an inexpensive way to add a pleasing look to otherwise ugly spots on their products. Ford and other manufacturers used similar products for pickups and trucks well up into the 50s or maybe even later till vinyl products replaced them. Last edited by rotorwrench; 01-08-2022 at 10:58 AM. |
01-08-2022, 11:02 AM | #52 | |
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Re: 1929 Pickup interior
Quote:
Ford assigned Type identifiers to all A and AA bodies. From aafords.com: Note – The Indianapolis Service Letter of 5/16/30 announced the assignment of “Body Model Numbers” (referenced as “Types” soon afterwards). Body Model Numbers (Types) were assigned to both current and past A and AA bodies. The types corresponded with a body part number grouping (example – platform type 88-A was for body parts number group 88000-88999). Refer to RGJS page 8 and page E-3 for Type listings. Example: A 1929 pickup consisted of a cab and cargo body. The cab was a 76-A open cab or 82-A closed cab. The cargo body was a 78-A. Without knowing the Type ids, it is much harder to use Ford body and/or chassis parts lists.
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01-08-2022, 11:54 AM | #53 |
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Re: 1929 Pickup interior
This is what I call a dart and I think that is what Neil was referring to.
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01-08-2022, 03:22 PM | #54 | ||
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Re: 1929 Pickup interior
Quote:
Quote:
eog |
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01-08-2022, 04:43 PM | #55 | |
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Re: 1929 Pickup interior
Quote:
The Model A community probably has one of the most comprehensive restoration tools available, through research and studying original cars. When someone gives incorrect information, I feel it is acceptable to correct the wrong information and provide the source. I guess, my own opinion as well. |
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01-08-2022, 08:49 PM | #56 | |
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Re: 1929 Pickup interior
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I knew a fellow back in my old home town that made seat covers mostly for truck and bus seats. He did several for my Pop over the years. There are less original model As now than there were back in the day. A few of the old timers that initially came up with information for MAFCA and MARC actually worked for Ford back in the day. Between them and the Ford archives, that's a good bit on what we have to go by in the modern era. When stuff is no longer available, a person has a hard time finding fault for those that use the next best thing available and especially for driver cars. |
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01-10-2022, 10:43 AM | #57 |
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Re: 1929 Pickup interior
Back to the top, so Ryan can let us know what MAFCA says.
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01-10-2022, 02:49 PM | #58 |
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Re: 1929 Pickup interior
I shouldn't but I'm going to,,,,,,. Information that was obtained through hard work and put into a book to be purchased so as to obtain the information needs to be protected BUT,,,. With the internet and clubs and friends the information is spread so that it's almost available to everyone. If I had worked and found information and had books to sell I would not want it to be as easy for other people, I worked hard to obtain and compile it. I know a guy who was in the business of printing and selling forms for banks, technology put him out of business. Patents only last so long, I would think it's similar to copywrite but don't assume that. I do think authors should atleast get the credit when quoted. I guess it really depends on the individual because I see it both ways.
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01-10-2022, 09:16 PM | #59 |
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Re: 1929 Pickup interior
FYI - The RGJS is maintained/updated by the two national club's Judging Standards Committees. I provided the 123 page AA Supplement information/photos and then helped the JSC to edit and change text as was desired.
Hundreds of hours was spent getting the last RGJS revision ready. The JSC and anyone helping them got zero $'s for their time. The only $'s spent was for an editor hired to make the new revision ready for the printer and the cost of the printing/selling/distribution. In my opinion, it would be best for the hobby to have this document in electronic form for everyone (at no cost). Most of the information in the AA Supplement is on my AAFords.com site. Anyone can use/copy/distribute information/photos from my site. Just my opinion - copy and use it all.
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01-10-2022, 10:13 PM | #60 | |
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Re: 1929 Pickup interior
Quote:
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01-11-2022, 11:24 AM | #61 |
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Re: 1929 Pickup interior
The FAA had to go all electronic on their Aviation Inspectors Handbook due to the constant updating of it. It was just too expensive to keep up with paper books that end up in the file 13 every other month or so. Patent and copyright laws were intended to protect those who apply for them so that others won't try to profit from their work. If profit isn't in the mix then no rules are violated.
Most car clubs gain operating funds by publications that they offer members and the general public. I don't mind donating to their cause but then I'm a member of a few of them so I pay my dues as well. Folks that get heavily involved in restorations generally purchase some of these publications unless they inherit them from senior family members that share the same interest. It's not easy to perform major repairs without more than just a little bit of guidance. |
01-11-2022, 11:37 AM | #62 | |
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Join Date: May 2010
Location: Eastern Tennessee
Posts: 11,486
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Re: 1929 Pickup interior
Quote:
Now bringing this closer to home, ...I think it is no secret that Ryan receives a dividend by providing this platform. Before him was Shelley & Peter, and before them was Gus. If the financial dividend that Ryan receives from this forum were to cease, then what is the likelihood that Ryan would be interested in continue to provide all of the funding and/or the labor associated with making sure Fordbarn is there for us to share information?? That same mindset can be applied to the national clubs and their publications that continue to provide funding for them. The same for MAFFI. I realize that not everyone enjoys "judging" however that was the catalyst that has made the Model-A as popular as it is today. Most people have never taken the time to understand just how instrumental George DeAngelis and other forefathers were at collecting information, -and the information was utilized which when used to restore, created more questions and the need for more answers. This is how the research (-and subsequent adjudication) propels the hobby to be stronger. So much good has come from this research even with mechanical components that we often overlook how we got here. If the research had not come about, then would we still be using JC Whitney and Western Auto cheaply made replacement parts? If original type fabrics had not been researched and reproduced, what would the interiors of most Model-As look like?? We have all seen Model-As that have incorrect upholstery, paint, and other components on them, ...and look at the diminished value of those vehicles when compared to one that is aesthetically correct. I feel that value is a direct correlation to the publications from the national clubs research. Therefore shouldn't we be respectful to the ones who have provided this information for us -and maybe not take the stance that we now should be entitled to it?? Maybe not, ...but I know I have invested a tremendous amount of time & effort in to the knowledge I have regarding Model-As, ...and the knowledge I have is extremely pale by comparison to many of the ones before me. |
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01-11-2022, 11:47 AM | #63 | |
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Join Date: May 2010
Location: Jamestown, ND
Posts: 651
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Re: 1929 Pickup interior
Quote:
You are preaching to the choir here. I have all of these books and paid full price, not on the secondary market. I still feel that sharing a correct pinstripe placement or correct upholstery grain shouldn’t require a member to buy all the books to answer their one question. Most of us are happy if our cars are fun and enjoyable, not worried about complete correctness. I will always error on the side of helping someone vs telling them “go buy your own”. Maybe we were just brought up differently. Last edited by LeonardS; 01-11-2022 at 12:55 PM. |
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01-11-2022, 12:52 PM | #64 |
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Join Date: Apr 2010
Location: Austin, TX
Posts: 670
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Re: 1929 Pickup interior
Ok... update from the MARC/MAFCA...
I got a super nice reply from Joe Fox who also talked to Jay McCord. They are absolutely fine with you guys quoting their materials. They do, however, ask that you don't just shoot an image of the book and post that... Perfectly logical from their standpoint. |
01-11-2022, 12:53 PM | #65 |
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Join Date: May 2010
Location: Jamestown, ND
Posts: 651
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Re: 1929 Pickup interior
Thanks Ryan! Now we know what they approve.
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01-12-2022, 09:17 AM | #66 |
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Location: Thorndale, Texas
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Re: 1929 Pickup interior
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Thank you |
01-12-2022, 09:20 AM | #67 |
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Join Date: Mar 2018
Location: Thorndale, Texas
Posts: 88
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Re: 1929 Pickup interior
Thank you much for the info.. I did order the book
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01-12-2022, 09:23 AM | #68 | |
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Join Date: Mar 2018
Location: Thorndale, Texas
Posts: 88
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Re: 1929 Pickup interior
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01-23-2022, 07:34 PM | #69 |
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Location: Thorndale, Texas
Posts: 88
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Re: 1929 Pickup interior
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