Flywheel Shim Question

[BashawT]

http://www.snydersantiqueauto.com/1435

The shim placed between the flywheel housing and the block at the top. .015" thick. U.S.A.

Hello everyone

When I took apart my engine it did not have these shims in place between the flywheel housing and engine block.I am just wonder what their importance is. I went to several machine shops in town and they were unable to help me. I am just trying to avoid ordering a .95 cent part. Of course if they have great importance I will order and wait to assemble.

Thanks in advanced.

- Travis

[Mitch//pa]

they make up for the thickness of the gasket on the back of the motor at the two top bolts.
put them in

[Cape Codder]

I have read that it helps to align the shaft coming from the transmission going into the pilot bearing on the flywheel. I actually just came in from the garage after installing them in my car.
Sorry I can't quote where I have seen the info.
Joe Grobleski
Cape Codder

[BashawT]

The engine was rebuilt in the 80's so I am just assuming that shimming was not done to the flywheel housing.

[markyb]

http://www.antiqueenginerebuilding.c...nFlywheel.html

Here's some help

[Tom Endy]

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My understanding is that the thickness of the shims is .010. Bratton lists them in their catalog as .010. I have several and they measure .010. Whenever I put an engine and drive train together I make sure the gasket that goes between the engine block and the clutch housing is in the neighborhood of .015. My theory is that the gasket materiel will crush down to a nominal .010. Often the gaskets that come in a kit are all over the map, I have seen some only a few thousands thick.

It is important that the flywheel housing be perpendicular to the engine block or it will throw the transmission input shaft out of line and it can lead to a number of problems including premature clutch failure. The Ford service bulletins indicates a dial indicator measurement should be within .006. This is only necessary across the top 180 Degrees of the clutch housing as the bottom 180 is pulled into alignment by the bell housing. You can grab the lower 180 of the clutch housing with your hand before the bell housing is installed and move it back and forth some amount.

It is important that the alignment check be made as it is often found that the clutch housing has been warped out of alignment and should not be used.

It is also important that the top two bolts where the accelerator linkage installs be torqued to the same value as the four bolts at the center of the housing. Often this is neglected as the bolts are longer to accommodate the linkage and are usually left off until the engine is installed in the car.

I have a pair of shorter bolts I use for this purpose. these are left in place until the engine is installed in the car to prevent the shims from dropping out. When replacing the bolts ensure the shims stay in place.

Tom Endy

[Patrick L.]

Don't want to order $.95 shims and pay the shipping ? Don't blame you, I wouldn't either. So, why not make some ?

[700rpm]

I made mine from a soft drink can. .010.

[BashawT]

Originally Posted by 700rpm

I made mine from a soft drink can. .010.

Just the advice I was looking for!

[James Rogers]

BashawT, use the drink can and make some. If you had let me know I would have sent some main shims to use with the flywheel. I do this all the time and just slip a feeler gauge into the gap to see how many thou I need and put enough in to make it about 1 or 2 thou tight. Simple, huh.

[700rpm]

Originally Posted by BashawT

Just the advice I was looking for!

I laugh when I think that the next person who takes my engine apart (maybe 30 years from now) will see part of a "vintage" soft drink can used to assemble the engine!

[Tom Wesenberg]

I put a little grease on the shims so they don't fall out of place while running the bolts in and out.

[BashawT]

Originally Posted by James Rogers

BashawT, use the drink can and make some. If you had let me know I would have sent some main shims to use with the flywheel. I do this all the time and just slip a feeler gauge into the gap to see how many thou I need and put enough in to make it about 1 or 2 thou tight. Simple, huh.

I didn't realize until after you sent the flywheel otherwise I would have. Thanks though! I used a soda can and made some shims. Whatever does the trick! Mounted up the flywheel and pressure plate today. Exciting seeing it all come back together!

Thanks

[James Rogers]

Fellows, remember, if the shims fall out by themselves, They are too thin. You should be just able to slide them in or maybe have to put a little pressure between the housing and block to get them in. Not tight but like a feeler gauge that just fits.

[Terry, NJ]

Let me get clear on this subject! I'm a ex Tool and Diemaker/machinist and I can't imagine sending out parts that were not finished and capable of assembly without shims.
That being said, I know that the parts must "adjusted". There is a temptation to just have it Blanchard ground to flat and parallel. But assuming I do shim it, do I put an indicator on the flywheel and turn it, getting readings at various points of it's travel and shimming accordingly? Or am I misunderstanding this? I'm almost at this point with my engine.
Terry

[markyb]

Proper aligning of flywheel and housing is of extreme importance as miss alignment can be attributed to many vibration and problems.

1. Mount flywheel housing to block with gasket and or thin bead of RTV. Install four 7/16-14 x 1 1/16 cross drilled hex bolts and safety wire. Note if any flywheel housing bolt holes in block are open into crankcase it is suggested to use a small amount of RTV on threads of bolt. This will reduce oil leakage into flywheel housing.

2. Place two .010 shims, I under each of the two mounting lugs on top of flywheel housing and install bolts and tighten.

3. Mount indicator on rear of crankshaft and measure around diameter of flywheel housing. Adjust by adding or subtracting shims. Recheck measurement. Less than .010 is desired not always obtainable left to right.

4. Mount flywheel to crankshaft with four 7/16-20x 13/16 cross drilled hex bolts and dowel pin retainer. Using too long of bolts can cause severe damage to engine. Tighten bolts do not install safety wire or pilot bearing.

5. Mount indicator on flywheel housing and measure run out near outer edge of clutch surface. Adjust by loosing flywheel bolts and pry flywheel from crankshaft. Install shim between crankshaft and flywheel where necessary. Tighten bolts and recheck measurement. This should be less then .005

6. Install safety wire and pilot bearing.

7. Reference FORD Service bulletins page 218

How To Restore Your Model A Volume 4 page 10-15

Model A Ford Mechanics Handbook Volume 1 1-146

[James Rogers]

I have found that, most if not all original flywheel housings are warped and will not adjust properly. I grind the face that bolts to the engine on my flywheel grinder to get it flat and square to the transmission mounting face. Once this is done the top ears should not need any more shims than the compressed thickness of the flywheel housing gasket. Terry, the need for shims is because of just this, when the housing is ground flat and the rear of the motor is ground flat (and both should be) you will need to shim for the thickness of the compressed gasket.

[Terry, NJ]

James and Mark, thanks for the info. Terry

[Charlie Stephens]

Sometimes the answer can be had by studying engineering and sometimes by studying accounting. If Ford engineers did not think the shims were necessary they wouldn't have spent the money to put them there in the first place. Follow the dollars and put the shims in.

Carlie Stephens

[Kohnke Rebabbitting]

All Flywheel housings are warped, just from taking them off an engine, and leaving them set, even if they were on level at the time.

All adjusting is done with the two top bolts.

The two .010 thousandths shims are worthless as an adjustment. It is like using a door shim to adjust a connecting Rod.

You never know how many shims it will take, from Zero on up. It all depends on the housing, and the motor.

The important thing after any adjustment, you have to leave it 24 hours, as it can, and or will change, and need futher adjustment.

The worst one I have ever hav wasn't +, or - over .002-50, it is all in shiming the top two bolts, and the shim packs are normally different thickness.

As far as shiming the flywheel, the rear of the flange should have been ground straight when the crank was in the crank grinder, and the flywheel ground straight.

Shimming there is Not a good idea!

The sides of the Housing, 9:00, and 3:00 should be made to read the same, or close first, and then top and bottom.

By doing that, you will have 4 points that all read the same, or with in .002 thousandths.

[Tom Wesenberg]

I like to dial in the flywheel housing while the engine is out and mounted in the engine stand with the front pointing down. If you are dialing in the flywheel cover with the engine in the car, as I did yesterday, then be sure the crankshaft is always pushed forward for all the readings, or pushed rearward for all the readings. Otherwise you have the crankshaft end play which can mess up the readings on the dial indicator. Yesterday I was reading my indicator while another guy hand cranked the engine while pushing hard IN on the crank. Luckily the readings were perfect, but the pressure plate and disc were bad.

[RockHillWill]

Here are some archive photos that might be of some interest. I have had a series of good fortune by having the flywheel housing Blanchard ground (make sure that they shim under the base before making the first cut) then buying two flywheel/block shims. They are much thicker than the originals and the .010" shims will be useless. Use one for the housing and cut two 'shims' from the the other. The mounting bolts are all the same size bolts, so even tightening will result in even compressed thickness.

I have included these photos to show what was originally provided.

If you prefer to use the original upper shims, you may find a lower gasket that looks and compresses like an original, by scouting around for a grocery store paper bag. They are not all the same thickness, but the thin ones are not hard to find.

Note that the original shims were made from the bottom layer of a surplus head gasket, and were .009" thick, making me assume that the paper gasket compressed to that thickness.



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