The Ford Barn

H. L. Chauvin · 02-22-2016, 04:34 PM

Many times we see recommended Forum lists as to which spare parts to carry in our Model A's while out on the road, & as always, our perfect Model A Forum Owners with perfect Model A's always report that they carry nothing and recommend carrying nothing. (LOL)

Well, I think after recently installing all new wiring in my "perfectly" wired 1930 Town Sedan, (LOL), and deciding to take a late night spin last night, a one (1) in a million failure I never experienced before happened last night.

Opened gas line, turned rebuilt original pop-out switch "ON"; however, as usual, the needle on the ammeter did not budge when switched "ON" like it always did before; but lights worked.

Without even hitting starter, opened hood to look ..... goodness ..... in plain view the wire from the junction box to the driver's side of the coil was disconnected, broken, and separated about 1-1/2" from the coil.

Wire appeared broken immediately adjacent to the factory soldered wire terminal flag connected to the bottom of the coil.

Got out my 10X magnifying visor only to see that the fine wires at the soldered connection were mashed and cut at the end of the insulation.

Appears when the wire was soldered to the metal flag terminal, someone unknowingly firmly held the wire with the cutting edges of electrical wire strippers and cut most of these fine wires.

Anyway, removed the former new soldered flag connector from the coil, stripped edge of wire, applied Kop-R-Cote, installed new flag connector and connected to coil and engine started right up.

Started thinking what would have happened if the wire would have broken while out on the road at night.

Got a small medicine bottle and placed every type of wire connectors in same to add to my small collection of spare parts.

Finally, went out for a late night spin anyway with no problems .... what the heck.

I'm sure there are many similar stories where not having a fifty (50) cents item could cause one to spend the night on an abandoned country road.

Just one (1) lucky, unexpected experience in a Model A garage prior to takin a late night spin.

apbright · 02-22-2016, 05:25 PM

I once had the wire between the starter switch and the junction box go open-circuit on me while driving on I-680 out of Fremont, CA in heavy Friday afternoon traffic. After pushing her onto the shoulder, a patch cable with alligator clips on each end in my trunk got me all the way from there to Lake Tahoe and back. IMHO, nature favours the prepared over the hopeful.

Synchro909 · 02-22-2016, 05:25 PM

Noticed the ammeter didn't move when you turned the ignition on! Well spotted.
On our last outback trip in the '29 Tourer, I left with a fan belt that wasn't going to last very long - I knew that so I had all I needed to replace it close at hand. About 2,500 miles later, it wet. I knew exactly what it was when we heard the commotion under the bonnet so I turned off the engine and coasted to a stop, grabbed the new belt and a single spanner. Within 5 minutes, we were rolling again. That night, at a camp, the driver of a modern 4WD and I were chatting and he asked whether we have any trouble with the car. Naturally, I gave him an indignant NO but I told him about the fan belt. He wasn't happy about the 5 minutes because a broken belt on his car had just cost him 3 days. By the time the car was towed into the next town, checked out by a mechanic at the dealership, the belt ordered and it arrived from who knows where, and it was fitted, 3 days had gone by. I held up an adjustable spanner and said "This is all I needed to do it too!"

Mitch//pa · 02-22-2016, 05:37 PM

If the points are open the ammeter would not move when the key is switched on...just sayin.

Terry, NJ · 02-22-2016, 05:47 PM

Along the same lines, Today I finished putting a heater/bored out Mod A intake manifolds on my coupe. So's I went to start it and that lil devil wouldn't start. Not gas, it's shorted ignition. I went over it with the Ohm meter, points were open and the meter is buzzing at me, (I think I heard a faint Ha Ha besides) The part I can't get over is that it was running when I parked it in the garage. But I did sorta have to apply a little force to the cover of the heater to get it on. I noted the bottom of the condenser was very close but not touching the heater cover. Could I have bent the condenser or something and caused a closed circuit. Some place, I have a dist. plate with modern points and condenser, would it pay me to switch it?
Terry

denis4x4 · 02-22-2016, 06:10 PM

Sponsored Links (Register now to hide all advertisements)

There's a hard and fast rule that the part you left on the bench or forgot to pack will be the part that fails on the road!

H. L. Chauvin · 02-22-2016, 06:21 PM

Hi Terry,

Same mystery here ........... when I parked my Model A, it was running great after about a two (2) hour, two (2) way drive, i.e., a (4) hour drive; hence, this wire mysteriously broke while parked in my garage.

Reminded me of our 1952 Super 10 Wizard outboard motor we were pre-testing years ago in a 55 gallon drum of water prior to going away on a fishing trip ...... the shear pin must have been badly damaged ...... the shear pin broke while the motor was idling in the barrel ....... friend of mine almost died laughing at shearing an idling outboard motor's shear pin in a 55 gallon barrel of water.

Tom Wesenberg · 02-22-2016, 08:15 PM

H. L. are you sure a rodent didn't chew that wire open?
In the late 90's I parked my junk yard car, an OMNI, beside the garage for a week, and it wouldn't start after that. I opened the hood and every wire under the hood was in at least 3 pieces. The rodents think of wire as spaghetti.

DougT · 02-22-2016, 08:26 PM

[QUOTE=Synchro909;1246344]
.
On our last outback trip in the '29 Tourer, I left with a fan belt that wasn't going to last very long - I knew that so I had all I needed to replace it close at hand. About 2,500 miles later, it wet. I knew exactly what it was when we heard the commotion under the bonnet so I turned off the engine and coasted to a stop, grabbed the new belt and a single spanner. Within 5 minutes, we were rolling again.

My luck, the belt would have wrapped up on the fan and took out the radiator. Some guys have all the luck!!

SeaSlugs · 02-22-2016, 09:25 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by H. L. Chauvin

Started thinking what would have happened if the wire would have broken while out on the road at night.

Got a small medicine bottle and placed every type of wire connectors in same to add to my small collection of spare parts.

in that case could always strip the wire back 3/4" or so with about anything sharp (pocket knife, side cutters, nail clippers, sharp rock or melt it with a lighter) then wrap the wire around the coil post and snug the nut up, should hold long enough to get you somewhere.

yea ive seen that where they use the wrogn size stripper notch and shave half the wire when they strip it. ive done it myself and you only do that a handful of times before you learn patience is key...

Big hammer · 02-22-2016, 09:33 PM

When I bought my A, on the way home,50 mi from the man I bought it from, 50 mi to home, crossed a bumpy rail road crossing, it died :-( I pulled over and turn the key to off. My mom was following me stopped and asked me what the problem? I said I need not know :-( After a time tried it and it started right up :-) Years later it would not start and I jumped the switch, then I replaced the switch. Years before the Ford Barn ( ain't it great ) !

Quigley1930 · 02-22-2016, 10:29 PM

Terry I you have he Autolite heater I found that grinding away a little of the inside edge next to the dist. helped a whole lot when putting on the cover. It will not weaken the cover at all.

Sewall Tyler

JBill · 02-22-2016, 10:56 PM

The metal conduit that goes into the terminal box once jiggled loose and shorted against the post inside the box, blowing the fuse. I'm glad I HAD a fuse. Otherwise, this might have been even more interesting.

H. L. Chauvin · 02-22-2016, 11:57 PM

Hi Tom,

Thanks. I looked closely with my 10X magnified visor. I can see where the Model A parts wire fabricator/manufacturer made a perfect clean 90 degree cut through the wire's outer cloth covering and the inner insulation black material in lieu of seeing gnawing teeth marks.

Then ..... the fine strands of copper wire, (with melted solder between strands), are cut clean at 90 degrees.

Since 1956, i.e., 60 years, we have had two vehicles in this attached garage and never had wires gnawed on or cut by rodents in this rural area. No wires cut on vintage tractors in our barns either.

When I had my 1930 Coupe parked here in this same garage for over 40 years ............ in about 1996 I found where about an eight foot long rattle snake shed his skin on my 1930 Coupe floorboard .......... no doubt he was better than D-Con ...... and furthermore .......... this critter would definitely meet or exceed Al Gore's Environmental Friendly Program to save our Planet.

J Witt · 02-24-2016, 06:05 PM

When I was once long ago working for Honeywell in the heady days of the space programs, the company would only allow thermal strippers for wire ends, no mechanical ones at all. This was of course to prevent nicking the wire strands and also creating FOD inside the system.

John

katy · 02-25-2016, 11:42 AM

Quote:

the metal conduit that goes into the terminal box once jiggled loose and shorted against the post inside the box, blowing the fuse. I'm glad i had a fuse.

This might help

Guide to fuse replacement.jpg

DougVieyra · 02-25-2016, 02:24 PM

Driving my '28 Chevrolet down a main street in San Jose, California - about 1963 or so, I was amazed to see a wheel rolling past me on the sidewalk, which looked just like the Discs wheels on my '28 Chevy -even the same color !

Remarkably, my Chevy kept on driving down the road without any serious mishap, until I was able to pull over, stop, and retrieve the errant run-a-way.

Some things you CAN temporarily fix with a 'band-aid', somethings you can not. Luckily for us, the older the car the easier the 'tape, wire, and pliers' tool kit will work.

1Tudoor · 02-25-2016, 02:45 PM

By hit & miss trying to become a self taught mechanic when about 12 (65 or so yrs ago) w/ my first car ,a model A (given to me by a lady down the road) , I found the hard way not all loose screws need tightening .
Can anyone guess which one ?
I almost wrecked the A ripping around on our rural dirt roads after unknowingly tightening the adjust screw in the steering box . I had removed the coupe body & was using a cinder block for a seat & can remember having my butt up off it trying to get enough leverage to steer the car . It's humorous now to remember but wasn't then .

02-22-2016, 04:34 PM	#1
H. L. Chauvin Senior Member Join Date: May 2010 Posts: 4,179	Inexpensive Unpredictable Model A Failures Many times we see recommended Forum lists as to which spare parts to carry in our Model A's while out on the road, & as always, our perfect Model A Forum Owners with perfect Model A's always report that they carry nothing and recommend carrying nothing. (LOL) Well, I think after recently installing all new wiring in my "perfectly" wired 1930 Town Sedan, (LOL), and deciding to take a late night spin last night, a one (1) in a million failure I never experienced before happened last night. Opened gas line, turned rebuilt original pop-out switch "ON"; however, as usual, the needle on the ammeter did not budge when switched "ON" like it always did before; but lights worked. Without even hitting starter, opened hood to look ..... goodness ..... in plain view the wire from the junction box to the driver's side of the coil was disconnected, broken, and separated about 1-1/2" from the coil. Wire appeared broken immediately adjacent to the factory soldered wire terminal flag connected to the bottom of the coil. Got out my 10X magnifying visor only to see that the fine wires at the soldered connection were mashed and cut at the end of the insulation. Appears when the wire was soldered to the metal flag terminal, someone unknowingly firmly held the wire with the cutting edges of electrical wire strippers and cut most of these fine wires. Anyway, removed the former new soldered flag connector from the coil, stripped edge of wire, applied Kop-R-Cote, installed new flag connector and connected to coil and engine started right up. Started thinking what would have happened if the wire would have broken while out on the road at night. Got a small medicine bottle and placed every type of wire connectors in same to add to my small collection of spare parts. Finally, went out for a late night spin anyway with no problems .... what the heck. I'm sure there are many similar stories where not having a fifty (50) cents item could cause one to spend the night on an abandoned country road. Just one (1) lucky, unexpected experience in a Model A garage prior to takin a late night spin.

02-22-2016, 05:25 PM	#2
apbright Senior Member Join Date: Dec 2012 Location: San Francisco, CA Posts: 169	Re: Inexpensive Unpredictable Model A Failures I once had the wire between the starter switch and the junction box go open-circuit on me while driving on I-680 out of Fremont, CA in heavy Friday afternoon traffic. After pushing her onto the shoulder, a patch cable with alligator clips on each end in my trunk got me all the way from there to Lake Tahoe and back. IMHO, nature favours the prepared over the hopeful.

02-22-2016, 05:25 PM	#3
Synchro909 Senior Member Join Date: Jun 2014 Location: Melbourne, Australia Posts: 7,496	Re: Inexpensive Unpredictable Model A Failures Noticed the ammeter didn't move when you turned the ignition on! Well spotted. On our last outback trip in the '29 Tourer, I left with a fan belt that wasn't going to last very long - I knew that so I had all I needed to replace it close at hand. About 2,500 miles later, it wet. I knew exactly what it was when we heard the commotion under the bonnet so I turned off the engine and coasted to a stop, grabbed the new belt and a single spanner. Within 5 minutes, we were rolling again. That night, at a camp, the driver of a modern 4WD and I were chatting and he asked whether we have any trouble with the car. Naturally, I gave him an indignant NO but I told him about the fan belt. He wasn't happy about the 5 minutes because a broken belt on his car had just cost him 3 days. By the time the car was towed into the next town, checked out by a mechanic at the dealership, the belt ordered and it arrived from who knows where, and it was fitted, 3 days had gone by. I held up an adjustable spanner and said "This is all I needed to do it too!" __________________ I'm part of the only ever generation with an analogue childhood and a digital adulthood.

02-22-2016, 05:37 PM	#4
Mitch//pa BANNED Join Date: May 2010 Location: Bucks County, PA Posts: 11,454	Re: Inexpensive Unpredictable Model A Failures If the points are open the ammeter would not move when the key is switched on...just sayin.

02-22-2016, 05:47 PM	#5
Terry, NJ Senior Member Join Date: May 2010 Location: Bucks Co, Pa Posts: 3,740	Re: Inexpensive Unpredictable Model A Failures Along the same lines, Today I finished putting a heater/bored out Mod A intake manifolds on my coupe. So's I went to start it and that lil devil wouldn't start. Not gas, it's shorted ignition. I went over it with the Ohm meter, points were open and the meter is buzzing at me, (I think I heard a faint Ha Ha besides) The part I can't get over is that it was running when I parked it in the garage. But I did sorta have to apply a little force to the cover of the heater to get it on. I noted the bottom of the condenser was very close but not touching the heater cover. Could I have bent the condenser or something and caused a closed circuit. Some place, I have a dist. plate with modern points and condenser, would it pay me to switch it? Terry

02-22-2016, 06:10 PM	#6
denis4x4 Senior Member Join Date: May 2010 Location: Durango CO Posts: 1,309	Re: Inexpensive Unpredictable Model A Failures Sponsored Links (Register now to hide all advertisements) There's a hard and fast rule that the part you left on the bench or forgot to pack will be the part that fails on the road! __________________ No restorable Model A's were harmed in the building of this truck!

02-22-2016, 06:21 PM	#7
H. L. Chauvin Senior Member Join Date: May 2010 Posts: 4,179	Re: Inexpensive Unpredictable Model A Failures Hi Terry, Same mystery here ........... when I parked my Model A, it was running great after about a two (2) hour, two (2) way drive, i.e., a (4) hour drive; hence, this wire mysteriously broke while parked in my garage. Reminded me of our 1952 Super 10 Wizard outboard motor we were pre-testing years ago in a 55 gallon drum of water prior to going away on a fishing trip ...... the shear pin must have been badly damaged ...... the shear pin broke while the motor was idling in the barrel ....... friend of mine almost died laughing at shearing an idling outboard motor's shear pin in a 55 gallon barrel of water.

02-22-2016, 08:15 PM	#8
Tom Wesenberg Senior Member Join Date: May 2010 Location: Mpls, MN Posts: 27,582	Re: Inexpensive Unpredictable Model A Failures H. L. are you sure a rodent didn't chew that wire open? In the late 90's I parked my junk yard car, an OMNI, beside the garage for a week, and it wouldn't start after that. I opened the hood and every wire under the hood was in at least 3 pieces. The rodents think of wire as spaghetti.

02-22-2016, 08:26 PM	#9
DougT Member Join Date: Dec 2014 Posts: 53	Re: Inexpensive Unpredictable Model A Failures [QUOTE=Synchro909;1246344] . On our last outback trip in the '29 Tourer, I left with a fan belt that wasn't going to last very long - I knew that so I had all I needed to replace it close at hand. About 2,500 miles later, it wet. I knew exactly what it was when we heard the commotion under the bonnet so I turned off the engine and coasted to a stop, grabbed the new belt and a single spanner. Within 5 minutes, we were rolling again. My luck, the belt would have wrapped up on the fan and took out the radiator. Some guys have all the luck!!

02-22-2016, 09:33 PM	#11
Big hammer Senior Member Join Date: Jun 2014 Location: Land of Lincoln Posts: 3,127	Re: Inexpensive Unpredictable Model A Failures When I bought my A, on the way home,50 mi from the man I bought it from, 50 mi to home, crossed a bumpy rail road crossing, it died :-( I pulled over and turn the key to off. My mom was following me stopped and asked me what the problem? I said I need not know :-( After a time tried it and it started right up :-) Years later it would not start and I jumped the switch, then I replaced the switch. Years before the Ford Barn ( ain't it great ) !

02-22-2016, 10:29 PM	#12
Quigley1930 Senior Member Join Date: Jun 2010 Location: Middleburg, Virginia Posts: 421	Re: Inexpensive Unpredictable Model A Failures Terry I you have he Autolite heater I found that grinding away a little of the inside edge next to the dist. helped a whole lot when putting on the cover. It will not weaken the cover at all. Sewall Tyler

02-22-2016, 10:56 PM	#13
JBill Senior Member Join Date: May 2010 Posts: 702	Re: Inexpensive Unpredictable Model A Failures The metal conduit that goes into the terminal box once jiggled loose and shorted against the post inside the box, blowing the fuse. I'm glad I HAD a fuse. Otherwise, this might have been even more interesting.

02-22-2016, 11:57 PM	#14
H. L. Chauvin Senior Member Join Date: May 2010 Posts: 4,179	Re: Inexpensive Unpredictable Model A Failures Hi Tom, Thanks. I looked closely with my 10X magnified visor. I can see where the Model A parts wire fabricator/manufacturer made a perfect clean 90 degree cut through the wire's outer cloth covering and the inner insulation black material in lieu of seeing gnawing teeth marks. Then ..... the fine strands of copper wire, (with melted solder between strands), are cut clean at 90 degrees. Since 1956, i.e., 60 years, we have had two vehicles in this attached garage and never had wires gnawed on or cut by rodents in this rural area. No wires cut on vintage tractors in our barns either. When I had my 1930 Coupe parked here in this same garage for over 40 years ............ in about 1996 I found where about an eight foot long rattle snake shed his skin on my 1930 Coupe floorboard .......... no doubt he was better than D-Con ...... and furthermore .......... this critter would definitely meet or exceed Al Gore's Environmental Friendly Program to save our Planet.

02-24-2016, 06:05 PM	#15
J Witt Senior Member Join Date: Mar 2015 Location: Acworth GA Posts: 534	Re: Inexpensive Unpredictable Model A Failures When I was once long ago working for Honeywell in the heady days of the space programs, the company would only allow thermal strippers for wire ends, no mechanical ones at all. This was of course to prevent nicking the wire strands and also creating FOD inside the system. John __________________ Houston, Tranquility base here. The Eagle has landed.

02-25-2016, 02:24 PM	#17
DougVieyra Senior Member Join Date: Sep 2012 Location: Eureka, California Posts: 1,716	Re: Inexpensive Unpredictable Model A Failures Driving my '28 Chevrolet down a main street in San Jose, California - about 1963 or so, I was amazed to see a wheel rolling past me on the sidewalk, which looked just like the Discs wheels on my '28 Chevy -even the same color ! Remarkably, my Chevy kept on driving down the road without any serious mishap, until I was able to pull over, stop, and retrieve the errant run-a-way. Some things you CAN temporarily fix with a 'band-aid', somethings you can not. Luckily for us, the older the car the easier the 'tape, wire, and pliers' tool kit will work.

02-25-2016, 02:45 PM	#18
1Tudoor Senior Member Join Date: Jan 2016 Location: Upstate in NY's beautifull hills Posts: 173	Re: Inexpensive Unpredictable Model A Failures By hit & miss trying to become a self taught mechanic when about 12 (65 or so yrs ago) w/ my first car ,a model A (given to me by a lady down the road) , I found the hard way not all loose screws need tightening . Can anyone guess which one ? I almost wrecked the A ripping around on our rural dirt roads after unknowingly tightening the adjust screw in the steering box . I had removed the coupe body & was using a cinder block for a seat & can remember having my butt up off it trying to get enough leverage to steer the car . It's humorous now to remember but wasn't then .