Gear lube

[Pete]

There is the old saying, "the customer is always right" but when you hand him his change if you give him that "you sure are a dipshit" look, he will usually get the point. LOL

[cas3]

in response to 19fordy, #15, i am no engineer, but when a product boasts that it can do both, i am skeptical. and in todays world, nobody at the store knows crap. so, you look at the labels on the gear lube bottles, and some say GL5, and some say GL5 compatible for manual transmissions. how can that be? they are two different purpose oils. so, for me, to keep it simple, i want the bottle to say GL4. also, in jseery's defense, most simple Q's like this are easy to find. for those that do not know, google is the way, not a search here on the barn. simply type in your question with either fordbarn, or hamb ending the sentence, and results will show for many common problems, or questions. usually, after a few links show, another thing in fine print shows up that will say" show only results from fordbarn .com" click on that, and you get more. now, i will agree, i thought jseery, sorta "jumped" a bit on this one, but i can see it from his perspective too, he is a frequent contributor on the barn, and a respected source of info for many things. takes personal emails to sort out photos, and has sent me personal photos and links to sort out issues i have had. so, "jerk", i think does not apply, but gosh jerry, lighten up a bit for the questions that WILL come again. best wishes, skip

[19Fordy]

JSeery: I always read your helpful info so keep posting even if its repetitive. Thanks.

[Pete F]

You know guys I have been in the business for 50 years and things are always changing from day to day so asking frequent questions is not a bad thing because the answers are always changing .
Hot rodders were and are guys that do a lot of experimenting and come up with answers even the engineers haven’t figured out so let’s lighten up with the pompous attitudes and listen to each other’s opinions we may learn something and if we don’t maybe we made a new friend.
This whole thing started because I asked about 600 weight gear lube and some jumped on me.
I use 680 lube in the trannies I rebuild for old Caddy’s and Duesenberg’s so I was just asking if anyone had tried it in old Fords.
If you were to put 80-140 in one of those old trannies you would have leaks and noise so I wondered if anyone had tried it in there Ford, but my God I started a whole discussion on how the group should look things up before asking a question.
This isn’t school it’s a hot rod group.
Let’s try and have some respect for each other.
Thanks


Sent from my iPad using Tapatalk

[JSeery]

"It is a mystery how or why the term "600W" became synonymous with Model A steering-transmission-differential lubrication. The only reference to "600" or "600W" I can find in Model A Ford literature is on page 377 of the Service Bulletin where they are discussing the seven tooth steering system. On page 375 of the Service Bulletins they recommend M-533 lubricant for the transmission and differential whereas on page 216 the recommend simply, "gear lubricant."

"So far, we have been unable to locate information which defines the characteristics of what we commonly call 600W. cone 1919 Model T literature describes it as a "Steam Cylinder Oil." Elsewhere, the 600 is defined as the flash point of a specific steam cylinder oil. I have yet to buy "600 oil" where the container provides any information as to its contents."

"I would prefer using a known viscosity oil rather than an oil about which I know nothing. Rather than buy an unknown, I would recommend a quality high pressure gear lubricant for the Model A steering-transmission-differential such as SAE 250 or SAE 140 in that order. SAE 80W-90 is a little thin for quiet shifting and you will probably hear more transmission and differential noise than with 250 or 140. Some companies are packaging an 85W-140 oil which is a little thin for our purpose. -- Lyle Meek, Technical Director"

Lubricant Viscosity Chart

[Pete F]

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This is the 680 lube I use in the old Caddy and Duesenberg’s

[19Fordy]

PeteF: I used 600W in my 40 Ford transmission and rear for many years with no problems- both winter and summer.
Didn't know it wasn't recommended by Ford but, it seemed to work fine. Then I read about GL4 not having additives that would harm "yellow metals" so I switched to that.

Also read that GL 5 (although it has additives that can harm yellow metals at high temperatures) can be harmful to transmission synchronizers (over time) but not to rear ends as they have no yellow metals in them. Also read posts by folks saying that GL5 is "safe" to use in both transmissions and rear ends as temperatures don't reach harmful levels. Truth is, there are many opinions on this subject. In the end, one has to independently make a decision.

I wonder what kind of "lube oil or gear oil" was used in gas stations in the 50's and 60's when all the mechanic had to due was pull down the hose and "fill'er up"? All cars got the same gear oil from that hose connected to a pressurized drum of gear oil.
Here's an article well worth reading. Explains GL4 and GL5 attributes and negatives. Very interesting. http://www.widman.biz/uploads/Transaxle_oil.pdf

[glennpm]

JSeery,

Please keep providing your thoughtful and informative posts here!

Glenn

[JM 35 Sedan]

Originally Posted by Pete F

You know guys I have been in the business for 50 years and things are always changing from day to day so asking frequent questions is not a bad thing because the answers are always changing .
Hot rodders were and are guys that do a lot of experimenting and come up with answers even the engineers haven’t figured out so let’s lighten up with the pompous attitudes and listen to each other’s opinions we may learn something and if we don’t maybe we made a new friend.
This whole thing started because I asked about 600 weight gear lube and some jumped on me.
I use 680 lube in the trannies I rebuild for old Caddy’s and Duesenberg’s so I was just asking if anyone had tried it in old Fords.
If you were to put 80-140 in one of those old trannies you would have leaks and noise so I wondered if anyone had tried it in there Ford, but my God I started a whole discussion on how the group should look things up before asking a question.
This isn’t school it’s a hot rod group.
Let’s try and have some respect for each other.
Thanks


Sent from my iPad using Tapatalk

I agree.....Relax guys, and help each other out whenever possible.

[Henry Hopper]

If I need to know something I will usually try searching first, but I find question posts helpful in a browsing kind of way...if I'm on here I trawl down the list of topics and click on to read...many times it's not because it is relevant to me at that particular moment but interesting non the same.If people get frightened from posting for fear of ridicule the site will suffer.Everyone take a chill pill and think of it as all stood at the bar shooting the breeze about old Fords.

[Yoyodyne]

Originally Posted by 19Fordy

I wonder what kind of "lube oil or gear oil" was used in gas stations in the 50's and 60's when all the mechanic had to due was pull down the hose and "fille'er up"? All cars got the same gear oil from that hose connected to a pressurized drum of gear oil.

Mostly plain SAE 90 gear oil. I saw it in the barrels at service stations and dealerships and I used it in everything up through the 70s until my 5 gallon pails were all used up, in truck and tractor transmissions and rears too then started using 90/140 and 85/90 when it became available. I never saw a GL designation on any of the pails, I can't say when that started. I learned about 600W when I got a Model T in the late 60s and needed some for the rear.

Some truckers tried using the good old 600W in newer transmissions and had failures because of closer bearing clearances etc. until they learned. I recently had to buy a new pail of 600W and learned a few things. 600W steam cylinder oil is still sold by Mobil, but now it's available in 460 and 680 iso viscosity. Regular 600W is still the go-to lube for worm gears in much industrial machinery, I use it in the gearbox of a horizontal bandsaw that has a bronze worm wheel. It's properties are perfect for the shearing action in a worm gear and is doesn't hurt the bronze. Amazon and Zoro.com are online sources of Mobil 600w, if you can handle 5 gallons.

600W is WAY thicker than 140 regardless of what the viscosity charts say, at least at room temperature. I can hardly get it to travel up the tube of a suction gun. If you don't have it in a pump it's a lot of work to get it into a transmission.

BTW, the synchronizers on my 36 didn't work very well so I tried SAE250 and it didn't make a bit of difference from SAE 90.

[steve-cook]

I used the advance search and found this very helpful, thank you.

[Kahuna]

Thank you, J.
Always appreciated. Keep it coming
Jim

[TagMan]

Damn kids - get OFF my grass !!!