The Ford Barn

Slickwilly · 03-09-2013, 03:04 PM

When my car is running the waterpump leaks. The water runs right out of it. There's a gold colored nut that it runs out of. When I tighten the nut the water stops but the waterpump won't turn. The belt slips on the pulley. I'm afraid to keep cranking on the nut because it's all chewed up and I have to grab it with a vise grip. I tried putting some grease in the little cup on it but it only helped for a little while and then it locked up again.

Jack Innes · 03-09-2013, 03:16 PM

Slickwilly, the easy solution is to replace the water pump with the water inlet & hose that Ford built the car with - no leak, no maintenance & the car will run fine if the cooling system is clean.

You might check inside the water outlet to see if someone has installed a restriction or thermostat to keep the pump from overheating the engine - if so remove that as well.

Steve Jelf · 03-09-2013, 03:49 PM

As Jack's answer implies, the presence of a water pump is often a symptom of a poor cooling system. There are two likely reasons. One is that the radiator and all the passages need a good cleaning out. The other is that the radiator is shot. Start with the cleaning. Here are some videos:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=RnOZ2...FCA6w&index=18

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=TJ3nk...FCA6w&index=17

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=XSLn4...FCA6w&index=16

If the vehicle overheats after a thorough cleaning, it's time to spend some dough. After ninety years of vibration the cooling fins have come loose from the tubes in many of these old radiators. Both solutions to that cost money. One is to have a good radiator shop install a new core. The other is to buy a new radiator. I recently had a 1915 radiator recored because that was $200 less expensive than buying a new one, and because I like the original tank better than the new ones.

T27owner · 03-09-2013, 04:40 PM

I have a waterpump on my car, my dad loved water pumps he put this on on the car 30 yrs ago. This summer it locked up, the water pump packing gave way and the pack bush tightened up locking the pump. The motor has never really ran hot, never ran much above 150. So i pulled the pump off an am going to run it as it was made this year. May try a thermostat the car has always ran cool. You can see in picture the water pump pulley spun off.

Farmallcub49 · 03-09-2013, 05:23 PM

Slickwilly,

Steve hit the nail on the head. A waterpump was added usually because the radiator was plugged and couldn't do the job, so the pump was added to force the water through. One of the best investments for a Model T that is to be driven is a new radiator. Not cheap, but better than cooking your engine, especially if you just spent several thousand rebuilding it. Just curious if I can send you the club newsletter, you may want to join. Next Saturday, we are having a work meeting in Brainerd, possibly not far from you depending on which casino you are close to. Email me at [email protected] and I'll forward some info to you.

Andy

redmodelt · 03-09-2013, 05:57 PM

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You need to back the nut off and put some more packing in. Chances are that the shaft has got rust pits and is worn and no matter how much packing you put in you will never get it to seal. At this point you could try as suggested above and put the correct parts on if you have them and see how she runs or rebuild the pump with new bushings and a stainless steel shaft. Most the bushings and shafts are standard on the shelf sizes.

yachtsmanbill · 03-09-2013, 08:32 PM

I had a 26 coupe that came with a pump, and after the rebuild I just put it back on not thinking. It leaked and even after repacking it, it was a problem. I shouldve pulled it off but clamped a small pair of rusty vise grips on the nut so that they rested on the hood shelf just at the right spot between leaking and not turning. Those VGs have moved from Chicago to Indiana, to Alabama and as far as I know they are still on there! Never leaked a drop either.
BTW... that aluminum pulley is NFG. Thats for a furnace fan. Get a cast iron or steel pulley that you can tighten down really good on the set screw. ws

Kohnke Rebabbitting · 03-09-2013, 10:23 PM

Water pumps are no different then Motors when they get wore out, they should be rebuilt. If packing don't stop a leak, you have to rebuild it. It will do no good doing the same thing expecting a different result. I have rebuild over 200 pumps I know in the last 47 years, and none of them leaked.

Never use a Thermostat with out a pump, it will act like a blockage.

Use a Stainless Steel shaft, as cold role will rust over night, and that will mess up the packing job. That is 99 percent of a pump that leaks.

I use modern seals in the pumps, and while the packing nut has a little packing ahead of it, the Packing nut stays loose, and maybe for a back up.

Slickwilly · 03-10-2013, 01:34 AM

Thanks guys. This car is getting stranger all the time. Every time I read something about it I find something that says the opposite. I'm not sure how much more time I'm going to put into the old wreck. I found a catalog from a company named Macs. I don't know how much parts cost anywhere else but I think parts to repair this thing is out of line for my budget. One thing I need is a starter. I looked one up on ebay. $325 is more than I would pay for one for my small block chevy.

Farmallcub49 · 03-10-2013, 08:31 AM

Mac's tends to be high, they are a HUGE company with a lack of personal service. I rebuild originals for people, but will sell outright without a core. I sell reproduction parts and don't have the huge overhead, so I try to undercut the big guys whenever I can so I can help the little guys. I will sell you a rebuilt starter for $250 with the bendix and waive the fee for no core. There is a lot to rebuilding a starter CORRECTLY and I do them on a good day in about six hours. There are little things that people skip that give them problems later. It all adds up. Like I said call or email and we can visit, hopefully you can come to Brainerd next Saturday.

[email protected] or 320-293-1953

CharlieB · 03-10-2013, 10:42 AM

In the first place there's Lang's and Snyder's. Both are T parts houses and their prices and service are better than Mac's. Both are on line and will send catalogs for free. (Mac's does have the best catalog by far. Also free). Water pump packing is available and probably runs about $2.00. It's worth a try because, frankly, if a pumps there it just might be hiding a cooling problem which you don't need to spend money on. Un screw the cap nut & dig out the old packing with a pick or wire hook. Don't leave the old dried out junk in there. Wind the new packing in the direction the shaft turns and have some sticking out so the nut will compress it. Use plenty of grease unless there's a grease fitting on the pump to lube the packing. It's gonna work or it ain't. But I'll bet it will make a huge difference and you're out a total of a duce and 2 hours work.

T27owner · 03-10-2013, 10:22 PM

[QUOTE

Never use a Thermostat with out a pump, it will act like a blockage

I use modern seals in the pumps, and while the packing nut has a little packing ahead of it, the Packing nut stays loose, and maybe for a back up.[/QUOTE]

Thanks, I have Stainless shaft what type of modern seals, my dad always used packing. Never had a thermostat in it either, seems like a lot of people favor thermo siphon thought about trying it since my car always runs cool.

dumb person · 03-10-2013, 11:35 PM

ì am too cheap for a starter so i use a handle on the front. Hard work on a cold morning.

Steve Jelf · 03-11-2013, 12:02 AM

Yep, if the rest of the car is in reasonably good shape you don't need a starter. A lot of T's, like this one, don't even have a starter.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=zCWnm...FCA6w&index=43

03-09-2013, 03:04 PM	#1
Slickwilly Junior Member Join Date: Jul 2012 Location: Minnesota Posts: 9	Waterpump When my car is running the waterpump leaks. The water runs right out of it. There's a gold colored nut that it runs out of. When I tighten the nut the water stops but the waterpump won't turn. The belt slips on the pulley. I'm afraid to keep cranking on the nut because it's all chewed up and I have to grab it with a vise grip. I tried putting some grease in the little cup on it but it only helped for a little while and then it locked up again.

03-09-2013, 03:16 PM	#2
Jack Innes Senior Member Join Date: May 2010 Location: Brooklin, Ontario Posts: 704	Re: Waterpump Slickwilly, the easy solution is to replace the water pump with the water inlet & hose that Ford built the car with - no leak, no maintenance & the car will run fine if the cooling system is clean. You might check inside the water outlet to see if someone has installed a restriction or thermostat to keep the pump from overheating the engine - if so remove that as well. __________________ Jack Innes, Brooklin, Ontario

03-09-2013, 03:49 PM	#3
Steve Jelf Senior Member Join Date: Apr 2012 Location: Parkerfield KS Posts: 526	Re: Waterpump As Jack's answer implies, the presence of a water pump is often a symptom of a poor cooling system. There are two likely reasons. One is that the radiator and all the passages need a good cleaning out. The other is that the radiator is shot. Start with the cleaning. Here are some videos: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=RnOZ2...FCA6w&index=18 https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=TJ3nk...FCA6w&index=17 https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=XSLn4...FCA6w&index=16 If the vehicle overheats after a thorough cleaning, it's time to spend some dough. After ninety years of vibration the cooling fins have come loose from the tubes in many of these old radiators. Both solutions to that cost money. One is to have a good radiator shop install a new core. The other is to buy a new radiator. I recently had a 1915 radiator recored because that was $200 less expensive than buying a new one, and because I like the original tank better than the new ones.

03-09-2013, 05:23 PM	#5
Farmallcub49 Senior Member Join Date: Jan 2011 Location: St Joseph,MN Posts: 278	Re: Waterpump Slickwilly, Steve hit the nail on the head. A waterpump was added usually because the radiator was plugged and couldn't do the job, so the pump was added to force the water through. One of the best investments for a Model T that is to be driven is a new radiator. Not cheap, but better than cooking your engine, especially if you just spent several thousand rebuilding it. Just curious if I can send you the club newsletter, you may want to join. Next Saturday, we are having a work meeting in Brainerd, possibly not far from you depending on which casino you are close to. Email me at [email protected] and I'll forward some info to you. Andy __________________ 'OSO HANDY RESTORATIONS Specializing in Model T Fords 320-293-1953

03-09-2013, 05:57 PM	#6
redmodelt Senior Member Join Date: May 2010 Location: Portland OR Posts: 6,340	Re: Waterpump Sponsored Links (Register now to hide all advertisements) You need to back the nut off and put some more packing in. Chances are that the shaft has got rust pits and is worn and no matter how much packing you put in you will never get it to seal. At this point you could try as suggested above and put the correct parts on if you have them and see how she runs or rebuild the pump with new bushings and a stainless steel shaft. Most the bushings and shafts are standard on the shelf sizes.

03-09-2013, 08:32 PM	#7
yachtsmanbill Senior Member Join Date: Dec 2011 Location: Two Rivers, Wi. Posts: 1,406	Re: Waterpump I had a 26 coupe that came with a pump, and after the rebuild I just put it back on not thinking. It leaked and even after repacking it, it was a problem. I shouldve pulled it off but clamped a small pair of rusty vise grips on the nut so that they rested on the hood shelf just at the right spot between leaking and not turning. Those VGs have moved from Chicago to Indiana, to Alabama and as far as I know they are still on there! Never leaked a drop either. BTW... that aluminum pulley is NFG. Thats for a furnace fan. Get a cast iron or steel pulley that you can tighten down really good on the set screw. ws __________________ " Warning; the following contains content that the anal retentive may find offensive - please skip on to the next posting!"

03-09-2013, 10:23 PM	#8
Kohnke Rebabbitting Senior Member Join Date: May 2010 Location: 60615,330th Ave.,Clare, Iowa, 50524 Posts: 1,457	Re: Waterpump Water pumps are no different then Motors when they get wore out, they should be rebuilt. If packing don't stop a leak, you have to rebuild it. It will do no good doing the same thing expecting a different result. I have rebuild over 200 pumps I know in the last 47 years, and none of them leaked. Never use a Thermostat with out a pump, it will act like a blockage. Use a Stainless Steel shaft, as cold role will rust over night, and that will mess up the packing job. That is 99 percent of a pump that leaks. I use modern seals in the pumps, and while the packing nut has a little packing ahead of it, the Packing nut stays loose, and maybe for a back up.

03-10-2013, 01:34 AM	#9
Slickwilly Junior Member Join Date: Jul 2012 Location: Minnesota Posts: 9	Re: Waterpump Thanks guys. This car is getting stranger all the time. Every time I read something about it I find something that says the opposite. I'm not sure how much more time I'm going to put into the old wreck. I found a catalog from a company named Macs. I don't know how much parts cost anywhere else but I think parts to repair this thing is out of line for my budget. One thing I need is a starter. I looked one up on ebay. $325 is more than I would pay for one for my small block chevy.

03-10-2013, 08:31 AM	#10
Farmallcub49 Senior Member Join Date: Jan 2011 Location: St Joseph,MN Posts: 278	Re: Waterpump Mac's tends to be high, they are a HUGE company with a lack of personal service. I rebuild originals for people, but will sell outright without a core. I sell reproduction parts and don't have the huge overhead, so I try to undercut the big guys whenever I can so I can help the little guys. I will sell you a rebuilt starter for $250 with the bendix and waive the fee for no core. There is a lot to rebuilding a starter CORRECTLY and I do them on a good day in about six hours. There are little things that people skip that give them problems later. It all adds up. Like I said call or email and we can visit, hopefully you can come to Brainerd next Saturday. [email protected] or 320-293-1953 __________________ 'OSO HANDY RESTORATIONS Specializing in Model T Fords 320-293-1953

03-10-2013, 10:42 AM	#11
CharlieB Senior Member Join Date: Sep 2010 Location: Toms River N.J. Posts: 515	Re: Waterpump In the first place there's Lang's and Snyder's. Both are T parts houses and their prices and service are better than Mac's. Both are on line and will send catalogs for free. (Mac's does have the best catalog by far. Also free). Water pump packing is available and probably runs about $2.00. It's worth a try because, frankly, if a pumps there it just might be hiding a cooling problem which you don't need to spend money on. Un screw the cap nut & dig out the old packing with a pick or wire hook. Don't leave the old dried out junk in there. Wind the new packing in the direction the shaft turns and have some sticking out so the nut will compress it. Use plenty of grease unless there's a grease fitting on the pump to lube the packing. It's gonna work or it ain't. But I'll bet it will make a huge difference and you're out a total of a duce and 2 hours work.

03-10-2013, 10:22 PM	#12
T27owner Junior Member Join Date: Mar 2013 Location: Eastern Nebraska Posts: 5	Re: Waterpump [QUOTE Never use a Thermostat with out a pump, it will act like a blockage I use modern seals in the pumps, and while the packing nut has a little packing ahead of it, the Packing nut stays loose, and maybe for a back up.[/QUOTE] Thanks, I have Stainless shaft what type of modern seals, my dad always used packing. Never had a thermostat in it either, seems like a lot of people favor thermo siphon thought about trying it since my car always runs cool. __________________ My dad always said "there's a fine line between a genius and an idiot"

03-10-2013, 11:35 PM	#13
dumb person Senior Member Join Date: Apr 2011 Location: South pacific island Posts: 1,724	Re: Waterpump ì am too cheap for a starter so i use a handle on the front. Hard work on a cold morning. __________________ <Link> This is how we roll<Link> "I'm Convinced that no one really reads posts anymore; they just fabricate what they think the post says then ramble on about red herrings."--Bob Outcasts rules of old cars #1 Fun is imperative, mainstream is overrated #2 If they think it is impossible, prove them wrong #3 If the science says it impossible you are not being creative enough. #4 No shame in recreating something you never had #5 If it were not for the law & physics you would be unstoppable

03-11-2013, 12:02 AM	#14
Steve Jelf Senior Member Join Date: Apr 2012 Location: Parkerfield KS Posts: 526	Re: Waterpump Yep, if the rest of the car is in reasonably good shape you don't need a starter. A lot of T's, like this one, don't even have a starter. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=zCWnm...FCA6w&index=43