|
Sponsored Links (Register now to hide all advertisements) |
|
|
Thread Tools | Display Modes |
11-30-2014, 10:15 PM | #1 |
Junior Member
Join Date: May 2010
Location: Sacramento Ca.
Posts: 27
|
Wax plug for the condensor
I am building a show distributor and I need to know if there is a vendor that sells the Wax plug for the condenser. I have never seen one so I don't even know what it is made of.
Any help would be Appreciated Joe |
11-30-2014, 11:25 PM | #2 |
Senior Member
Join Date: Aug 2010
Location: Port Orchard, WA
Posts: 1,498
|
Re: Wax plug for the condensor
Hope this helps
RG&JS page 2-11 Revised 2011 Original distributor showing sealant "plug" covering the condenser to bus bar screw. RG&JS page 2-12 Revised 2011 "The condenser was connected to the lower plate bus bar with a round head, cadmium plated screw through early 1930 and copper plated thereafter. The bus bar screw was hidden from view with the application of a water tight sealant. The sealant or "sealing wax" was applied at the hole in the casting forming a blackish "plug". "
__________________
1931 160B & 1931 68B If you don't have time to do it right the 1st time, how do you have time to do it the 2nd time? Last edited by 160B; 11-30-2014 at 11:33 PM. |
Sponsored Links (Register now to hide all advertisements) |
|
11-30-2014, 11:30 PM | #3 |
Senior Member
Join Date: Jun 2010
Posts: 1,854
|
Re: Wax plug for the condensor
Would a rubber plug from a hardware store work? I had a 110 john deere that I restored, anti had a later motor in it. The earlier one had a generator and a light on the dash showing if it was charging. When I put the new motor in I got a rubber plug for the hole, the dash was black so it matched pretty closely, maybe something like that would work
John |
12-01-2014, 01:12 AM | #4 |
Senior Member
Join Date: May 2010
Location: Mpls, MN
Posts: 27,582
|
Re: Wax plug for the condensor
I also wish I knew what it is made from. I can tell you it isn't sealing wax such as used on envelopes.
|
12-01-2014, 09:09 AM | #5 |
Senior Member
Join Date: Jun 2010
Posts: 1,854
|
Re: Wax plug for the condensor
|
12-01-2014, 11:27 AM | #6 | |
Senior Member
Join Date: May 2010
Location: Fresno, Ca.
Posts: 3,636
|
Re: Wax plug for the condensor
Sponsored Links (Register now to hide all advertisements)
Quote:
Did it pass fine point...color? Thanks, Dudley |
|
12-01-2014, 12:54 PM | #7 |
Senior Member
Join Date: May 2010
Location: Windy City
Posts: 2,919
|
Re: Wax plug for the condensor
I believe the original plug was Chatterton's compound, a mix of gutta percha, stockholm tar, and rosin. The gutta percha content prevented the material from becoming too rigid, crystalline, and cracking out.
The average Chatterton's flow temperature was about 260F. Many lead-acid batteries had the cell posts sealed into the top hard rubber cap with this stuff, not the straight tar used for setting the entire cell assembly in the case. The thick molten material was likely poured into the condenser holes, backed by the fiber washer therein, with the dizzy body sub-assemblies on their sides and moving along an assembly line. That would account for the dome-like appearance seen on some original dizzys. Other originals appear to have had the material pressed or sealed with a cold iron, leaving a flatter plug appearance with indication of the cold tool having a chamfered edge. Chatterton's was in common use for electrical work in the 20's. Chatterton's and sheets of gutta percha were used to seal splices in generating plants and underground feed tunnels. An old trick when sealing leads out of an iron frame motor was to work the Chatterton's with a well-tinned hot iron, which the compound would not stick to. Side note: In french speaking nations common electrical tape is referred to as "chatterton's" LINK despite the fact that it is not the material of old |
12-01-2014, 02:36 PM | #8 |
Senior Member
Join Date: Jul 2010
Location: Pennsylvania
Posts: 1,100
|
Re: Wax plug for the condensor
Aside from fine point judging requirements- does this plug serve any real functional purpose?
|
12-01-2014, 02:45 PM | #9 |
Senior Member
Join Date: Jun 2010
Posts: 1,854
|
Re: Wax plug for the condensor
|
12-01-2014, 02:55 PM | #10 | |
Senior Member
Join Date: May 2010
Location: Young Harris, GA
Posts: 1,821
|
Re: Wax plug for the condensor
Quote:
Henry did not spend money on anything that was not needed.
__________________
Jim Cannon Former MAFCA Technical Director "Have a Model A day!" |
|
12-01-2014, 04:24 PM | #11 | ||
Senior Member
Join Date: May 2010
Location: Eastern Tennessee
Posts: 11,516
|
Re: Wax plug for the condensor
Quote:
I believe the J/S calls for the plug to be wax, ...and rubber, silicone, or urethane really would not be, -nor look authentic. Wax coating a silicone plug might pass as long as it did not flake off. BTW, look closely at the wax's texture in the photo. Quote:
I never could find a print for it on the Assembly Drawing nor could Ron. I'm not saying it doesn't exist, ...I'm just saying we couldn't find it. Now with that said, I have tried to replicate this with both casting wax and Beeswax (since I cannot find the M-Specs on it either) and in both instances, all I have been able to do is melt it out after about 20 miles of driving. Therefore it is my opinion this was never meant to be a permanent sealer. So what was the true purpose? Again, my theory is this was meant to seal the distributor from the time it left the manufacturer until it arrived at the Ford Branch for installation into an engine. Maybe to keep out moisture --or more likely to keep foreign debris out. I do concur with Jim that Henry would not have utilized this unless they had found out it was a necessity (likely due to an prior issue somewhere). |
||
12-01-2014, 05:18 PM | #12 | |
Senior Member
Join Date: Aug 2010
Location: Port Orchard, WA
Posts: 1,498
|
Re: Wax plug for the condensor
Quote:
So if we are judging the vehicle to the condition it was when it came down the assembly line how much can we get from this photo? IMHO - I can say that the photo substantiates that the wax plug existed and the photo shows the condition of a wax plug after an extended period of use.
__________________
1931 160B & 1931 68B If you don't have time to do it right the 1st time, how do you have time to do it the 2nd time? |
|
12-01-2014, 05:52 PM | #13 |
Senior Member
Join Date: May 2010
Location: Jacksonville, FL
Posts: 292
|
Re: Wax plug for the condensor
When I did Fine Point on my Tudor, I rolled black dum dum into a ball slightly larger than the hole in the distributor, found a tube the same inside diameter as the hole, and with luck found a dowel the same size as the inside diameter of the tube. I took the ball of dum dum, stuffed it into the tube, then with the dowel, I plunged it through the tube into the distributor hole. The result was it looked like that archive picture, a black button, of course it took a couple of tries to get it to my liking but passed judging just fine. Since that time I have done on two other Fine Point cars. I use it this way in all of my driving cars because it keeps the water and dirt out of the distributor and is heat resistant. I just roll dum dum into a ball slightly larger than the hole and push it in with my thumb. You have to get creative.
|
12-01-2014, 05:56 PM | #14 |
Junior Member
Join Date: May 2010
Location: Sacramento Ca.
Posts: 27
|
Re: Wax plug for the condensor
Thanks for all the help.
This seems to be mystery compound with no definitive ingredients so I guess I will try the WardAz solution and see how it looks. Joe |
12-01-2014, 06:04 PM | #15 |
Senior Member
Join Date: May 2010
Location: Fresno, Ca.
Posts: 3,636
|
Re: Wax plug for the condensor
Brent,
It look PD good to me.... |
12-01-2014, 06:27 PM | #16 |
Senior Member
Join Date: May 2010
Location: Glendale, AZ
Posts: 2,952
|
Re: Wax plug for the condensor
Maybe they are for real
There is a listing on Ebay right now for 1932-1936 http://www.ebay.com/itm/like/321595982830?lpid=82 Hope link works 18-12138 is in the 1932 Parts book No mention of that plug or number in Model A parts book (at least not in the one I have) Last edited by Joop; 12-01-2014 at 06:40 PM. |
12-01-2014, 07:13 PM | #17 |
Senior Member
Join Date: May 2010
Posts: 914
|
Re: Wax plug for the condensor
Maffi.org shows a12138 as 'distributor base to condenser insulation'
|
12-01-2014, 07:18 PM | #18 |
Senior Member
Join Date: May 2010
Posts: 1,987
|
Re: Wax plug for the condensor
18-12138 as Joop refers to above is rubber and too big for the hole in the A distributor...fwiw
|
12-01-2014, 09:32 PM | #19 |
Senior Member
|
Re: Wax plug for the condensor
BUT if you look at the image it can be made smaller with some work and it is ORIGINAL......
__________________
Mark Maron Ill., Region MARC & MAFCA MARC JSC Member MAFFI Trustee National Facebook Admin. https://www.facebook.com/groups/MARC.group/ A7191-Sport Coupe 29 Roadster 29-Town Sedan 29-Original Special Coupe |
12-01-2014, 09:48 PM | #20 |
Senior Member
Join Date: May 2010
Location: St Charles , Missouri
Posts: 1,998
|
Re: Wax plug for the condensor
Mark,
I have lots of those as I do V8 Distributors.... the plug at the larger mushroom end is .630 and the distributor hole diameter is about .520. It could possibly work and does look close... but if they do the touch test would know it's rubber. Might not get detected.... contour looks about right Larry |
12-02-2014, 08:30 AM | #21 |
Senior Member
Join Date: Jul 2010
Location: Pennsylvania
Posts: 1,100
|
Re: Wax plug for the condensor
I'm thinking that perhaps back in the days of dusty roads, the idea was to keep dirt and dust out of the distributer. But it seems that if any moisture were to work its way into the distributer, that it would get trapped in there without the venting that the hole provides. Honestly, this is the first I've ever heard of this plug, and I've been running my As for years without any plug without any problems. It may be authentic, but I'm not so sure it is needed. Henry put a lot unnecessary or over engineered parts into the A that he later deleted or changed. For example, the radiator shroud, the three piece brake shaft, forged fender brackets....
|
12-02-2014, 10:24 AM | #22 |
BANNED
Join Date: May 2010
Location: Bucks County, PA
Posts: 11,454
|
Re: Wax plug for the condensor
i am thinking that the plug was dual purpose
a barrier for moisture / water etc to keep it dry inside as mentioned..... i also think it could relate to the anti theft system in conjunction with the popout. without the plug in place one could just hot the condensor screw and run the other end to the igniton coil red wire to start the car.... just thinking out loud |
Sponsored Links (Register now to hide all advertisements) |
|
12-02-2014, 11:00 AM | #23 | |
Senior Member
Join Date: May 2010
Location: Windy City
Posts: 2,919
|
Re: Wax plug for the condensor
Quote:
|
|
12-02-2014, 11:12 AM | #24 |
Senior Member
Join Date: May 2010
Location: California
Posts: 979
|
Re: Wax plug for the condensor
The Ebay listing states the following;
The plugs have a protective wax or oil that easily cleans off...if desired. Is it possible that the Model A plug is made of the same material and also has a wax coat? Bob |
12-02-2014, 11:41 AM | #25 |
BANNED
Join Date: May 2010
Location: Bucks County, PA
Posts: 11,454
|
Re: Wax plug for the condensor
Mike K
thanks for that info and correction i forgot that it grounded also inside. |
12-02-2014, 11:49 AM | #26 | |
Senior Member
Join Date: May 2010
Location: Eastern Tennessee
Posts: 11,516
|
Re: Wax plug for the condensor
Sponsored Links (Register now to hide all advertisements)
Quote:
I will look at the part number that MAFFI has the next time I am up at the Archives to see if it is there (thanks for the # Jim). Maybe the print will also have the M-spec?? |
|
12-02-2014, 12:20 PM | #27 |
BANNED
Join Date: May 2010
Location: Bucks County, PA
Posts: 11,454
|
Re: Wax plug for the condensor
here is an older thread on the subject but no new info
https://www.fordbarn.com/forum/showthread.php?t=38606 |
12-02-2014, 12:29 PM | #28 |
Senior Member
Join Date: May 2010
Location: So Cal
Posts: 8,753
|
Re: Wax plug for the condensor
The MAFFI site shows other numbers also. DISTRIBUTOR BASE TO CONDENSER INSULATION
BOSCH #IS-78054, AUTO-LITE #IGF-36 |
12-02-2014, 08:46 PM | #29 |
BANNED
Join Date: May 2010
Location: Walla Walla, Washington USA
Posts: 6,066
|
Re: Wax plug for the condensor
I wonder if there was a patent number associated with the plug?????
Pluck |
12-02-2014, 09:56 PM | #30 |
Senior Member
Join Date: May 2010
Posts: 914
|
Re: Wax plug for the condensor
I lean toward something with gutta percha. The chatterton's sounds roght to me. I have some pure gutta percha and it looks right but isn't easy to work with....
|
|
|
Sponsored Links (Register now to hide all advertisements) |
|