The Ford Barn

1Tudoor · 03-07-2016, 12:20 PM

I have a chance to buy a 1930 A motor w/ attached transmission out of the frame which I have not yet looked at ,(only a poor pic) but will later this week .
All I know right now it does not turn over & is missing the starter , water pump , fan , etc . If I find visible block cracks it will probably be a no go .
I realize price is very conditional till inspected but I'm not really aware what a hi & low price might be as the seller wants me to look at it & make an offer .
Thks for any input
Bob

700rpm · 03-07-2016, 12:25 PM

I would not pay over $100, if I bought it at all. Too many unknowns.

bikejunk · 03-07-2016, 12:26 PM

lots of missing Ifo based on what you say 150 $ or less or more- stuck - engine and tranny. You might have to see it without the head to check for cracks.

SeaSlugs · 03-07-2016, 12:29 PM

Well the way i handle sellers that dont have an idea of price is to shoot an offer i feel comforitable with, if its too low or they get offended by your offer well they should of had a number in mind to haggle with to begin with. If hes a hot rodder trying to ditch it will probably let it go cheap to get it out of his way, if hes a stock model a guy he may want top dollar. id start at $50-100 depending on condition and see what happens.

Anyways, bring a wrench to open up spark plugs and a strong flashlight, if you have a bore light or very narrow LED on a flexable arm to shine down the holes to look at the cyl walls and such (mainly lookign for mouse nests) would be highly beneficial.

bring a mirror to shine in the starter hole and check for nests or 30 pounds of hickory nuts. - not a deal killer but kiss the flywheel and anything in the clutch housing goodbye if anything besides oil and spiders are present.

trans wise see if he will let you take the top of the trans off (6 bolts) then you can look at the gears, shafts, shifter forks, etc. if its coated in oil everything is probably good besides wear items which you can visually see if gear teeth are shot or pitted etc, a few trans ive looked at usually they will still shift gears which means theres oil inside still and promising good internals.

either way you buy it for $100 and turns out its junk theres probably still $100 worth of parts present to get your money back if you part it out.

if its a ball of rust but dont see any cracks id shoot $25-$50 and see what happens - after all he didnt set a price.

Mitch//pa · 03-07-2016, 01:23 PM

Assume it needs a complete overhaul and has a cracked block

ronn · 03-07-2016, 01:36 PM

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I wouldnt buy it if it is locked.
Just look for a decent motor-not worth your time.

transmissions are cheap.......... and sit around and are good for anchors...........!

Tom Wesenberg · 03-07-2016, 02:41 PM

Since the starter is off you could bring along one of those pry bars shaped like a very large screwdriver with a bend near the end. Use the flywheel cover as a fulcrum and pry on the flywheel teeth to see if it will move either direction. Of course if it does move, the price will likely go up.

I would ask why it was removed from the car. It could be a good engine from a hot rod build, and may only be very lightly stuck. I passed the information about such an engine to a friend, instead of buying it for myself. Turns out the $100 engine was a fresh rebuild, and only very lightly stuck from setting.

Look for cracks. I like to see an engine that is oily and looks like a recent removal for a hot rod build.

Mikeinnj · 03-07-2016, 02:53 PM

Sounds like it will need a total rebuild if the block is not cracked.You would be better off buying a good core from a reputable engine re-builder and have him build a short block for you. I have traveled the road you are looking down and have ended up with several boat anchors.

Flathead Dave · 03-07-2016, 02:57 PM

I wouldn't go over $50 after you see it and find no visible cracks. No telling what is in the inside of the block.

brito36 · 03-07-2016, 03:09 PM

If it's locked up, it will need a total rebuilding. As one person stated, 'Too many unknowns' (cracked block etc...) I would probably take a pass unless I got it really cheap.

C26Pinelake · 03-07-2016, 03:29 PM

Run don't walk! It is worth scrap metal price per pound. If if was any good it would not be stripped! Wayne

BILL WILLIAMSON · 03-07-2016, 03:31 PM

Twodoor,
Figure in your head what it's REALLY worth to you, & flash 1/2 that amount, IN COLD HARD CASH TO HIM!--------CASH really TALKS!! AND, dress in Yo' POOR BOY CLOTHES & OLD sunglasses, that have been repaired with MASKING TAPE.
Bill Hagler

Gil Sissons · 03-07-2016, 03:49 PM

Bob... I think 700rpm is right on track.
Way too many unknowns.
You may have missed a recent question here about the same subject.
Memory says 80% of the blocks are junked by most builders.
Fyi. Gil. NoCal

Synchro909 · 03-07-2016, 04:06 PM

While the motor is still closed, you can't tell much about what's inside. If he won't let you at least take the head off or if it doesn't come off easily enough to do on the spot, I'd walk. That said, look into the head where the water pump should be and see how it is for rust. Do the same at the water outlet on the side of the block too, if you can.

1Tudoor · 03-07-2016, 04:08 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by BILL WILLIAMSON

Twodoor,
Figure in your head what it's REALLY worth to you, & flash 1/2 that amount, IN COLD HARD CASH TO HIM!--------CASH really TALKS!! AND, dress in Yo' POOR BOY CLOTHES & OLD sunglasses, that have been repaired with MASKING TAPE.
Bill Hagler

Thks Bill , I only have po boy clothes
Also many thks to all of the replys

J Franklin · 03-07-2016, 04:19 PM

Before you make a bid demand that you dismantle the block enough to determine if you want it. Open the trans also. The seller should have no reason not to allow it unless he knows or suspects real trouble to be revealed. If you still want it, figure it for parts only.

H. L. Chauvin · 03-07-2016, 10:06 PM

FWIW: One experience with a "known" engine.

Was offered my Uncle's rebuilt B engine with very low hours for Free.

Engine was sitting out-of-doors for 10 years with one sheet of corrugated galvanize roofing on top, weighted down with chain.

Removed head, removed oil pan, piston no. 3 locked. Soaked in Liquid Wrench for a week .... & would still not move.

Shaped a cypress 4x4, placed on top of piston, "very carefully" hit with hammer, & kept squirting Liquid Wrench. Piston rings in only no. 3 rusted and were stuck to cylinder. Luckily rings finally broke loose with no piston damage.

Rigged up a hone with 0000 steel wool on stones & polished a ring of rust off of cylinder with steel wool and kerosene.

Only bought new rings for engine ... remainder of engine was a recent rebuild by a professional mechanic and was close to perfect.

In Mr. Tudoor's case, nothing wrong with telling the seller the truth ..... with the seller's possibly not knowing the condition of the engine/transmission, it could require lots of time spent on investigating, cleaning, etc., and if the end result is a possible cracked block, and possible worn transmission gears under molasses thick oil, mention that you will have no choice but to bring it to the junk dealer to get how much ........ $XX.00.

If he wants "your" cash for you to take a chance and gamble ..... maybe offer (2) buying prices ..... one for a good block and one for a cracked block ...... if he refuses ..... think ...... what would you care to lose with no complaints?

Capt Quahog · 03-07-2016, 10:51 PM

If the engine is FOR SALE at a price and refuses to TURN looking to be seized then walk away. Forget about it! Should the dead frozen engine be offered for the taking FREE of charge, then depending upon your circumstance, it might be worthy of consideration.

Here in Northeast Pennsylvania, I keep running across model A Ford turning / running engines for sale here n' there for between $100 - $500. A couple of weeks ago I saw a complete rebuilt Model A engine offered in Scranton for $800 OBO.

H. L. Chauvin · 03-08-2016, 12:56 AM

Always wonderful to see so many sincere opinions offered.

Would be interesting to hear "later this week" what Mr. Bob finds after seeing both this engine and this seller "in person".

Somtimes a Model A parts seller is (10) times more interesting than the Model A parts he is selling.

Fred K-OR · 03-14-2016, 11:19 AM

When I started to build my huckster, I had the engine in the old CCPU rebuilt by a local fellow. The pistons were stuck in the block-he had to break them to get them out and mice have lived in the pan for a number of years. He found a small crack in the block that he was able to fix.

So I had him rebuild the engine-which he did. It works great and runs like a new one.

But this engine had the same engine number that the frame has-thus the original engine in the old CCPU. So in my case it made sense to go ahead and rebuild the engine.

Thus to answer your question about the engine you are looking at. It would seem like it would depend on how bad you need that engine. Like others said above, it you have other choices that are better, pass on this one. But if that is the only one you can find and you need it, then look it over and make your decision and offer a price based on your needs. Good luck

1Tudoor · 03-14-2016, 04:18 PM

Well guys , I never did go look at the motor as he told me via ph he wanted $200 for it & I told him I thought it was a bit much .
Thks again for the responses as they gave me some basic buying knowledge I was looking for . The motor , after tinkering would have been a backup for my 31 (not that I need another project)

03-07-2016, 12:20 PM	#1
1Tudoor Senior Member Join Date: Jan 2016 Location: Upstate in NY's beautifull hills Posts: 173	Purchase question I have a chance to buy a 1930 A motor w/ attached transmission out of the frame which I have not yet looked at ,(only a poor pic) but will later this week . All I know right now it does not turn over & is missing the starter , water pump , fan , etc . If I find visible block cracks it will probably be a no go . I realize price is very conditional till inspected but I'm not really aware what a hi & low price might be as the seller wants me to look at it & make an offer . Thks for any input Bob

03-07-2016, 12:25 PM	#2
700rpm Senior Member Join Date: May 2010 Location: Portland, Oregon Posts: 5,903	Re: Purchase question I would not pay over $100, if I bought it at all. Too many unknowns. __________________ Ray Horton, Portland, OR As you go through life, keep your eye on the donut, not the hole.

03-07-2016, 12:26 PM	#3
bikejunk Senior Member Join Date: Oct 2012 Location: beautiful down town Passaic NJ Posts: 293	Re: Purchase question lots of missing Ifo based on what you say 150 $ or less or more- stuck - engine and tranny. You might have to see it without the head to check for cracks.

03-07-2016, 12:29 PM	#4
SeaSlugs Senior Member Join Date: May 2010 Location: Central, IL Posts: 3,968	Re: Purchase question Well the way i handle sellers that dont have an idea of price is to shoot an offer i feel comforitable with, if its too low or they get offended by your offer well they should of had a number in mind to haggle with to begin with. If hes a hot rodder trying to ditch it will probably let it go cheap to get it out of his way, if hes a stock model a guy he may want top dollar. id start at $50-100 depending on condition and see what happens. Anyways, bring a wrench to open up spark plugs and a strong flashlight, if you have a bore light or very narrow LED on a flexable arm to shine down the holes to look at the cyl walls and such (mainly lookign for mouse nests) would be highly beneficial. bring a mirror to shine in the starter hole and check for nests or 30 pounds of hickory nuts. - not a deal killer but kiss the flywheel and anything in the clutch housing goodbye if anything besides oil and spiders are present. trans wise see if he will let you take the top of the trans off (6 bolts) then you can look at the gears, shafts, shifter forks, etc. if its coated in oil everything is probably good besides wear items which you can visually see if gear teeth are shot or pitted etc, a few trans ive looked at usually they will still shift gears which means theres oil inside still and promising good internals. either way you buy it for $100 and turns out its junk theres probably still $100 worth of parts present to get your money back if you part it out. if its a ball of rust but dont see any cracks id shoot $25-$50 and see what happens - after all he didnt set a price. __________________ 1929 Model AA - Need long splash aprons!

03-07-2016, 01:23 PM	#5
Mitch//pa BANNED Join Date: May 2010 Location: Bucks County, PA Posts: 11,454	Re: Purchase question Assume it needs a complete overhaul and has a cracked block

03-07-2016, 01:36 PM	#6
ronn Senior Member Join Date: Feb 2011 Location: NNNNNNNNJJJJJJJJJJ Posts: 6,787	Re: Purchase question Sponsored Links (Register now to hide all advertisements) I wouldnt buy it if it is locked. Just look for a decent motor-not worth your time. transmissions are cheap.......... and sit around and are good for anchors...........!

03-07-2016, 02:41 PM	#7
Tom Wesenberg Senior Member Join Date: May 2010 Location: Mpls, MN Posts: 27,582	Re: Purchase question Since the starter is off you could bring along one of those pry bars shaped like a very large screwdriver with a bend near the end. Use the flywheel cover as a fulcrum and pry on the flywheel teeth to see if it will move either direction. Of course if it does move, the price will likely go up. I would ask why it was removed from the car. It could be a good engine from a hot rod build, and may only be very lightly stuck. I passed the information about such an engine to a friend, instead of buying it for myself. Turns out the $100 engine was a fresh rebuild, and only very lightly stuck from setting. Look for cracks. I like to see an engine that is oily and looks like a recent removal for a hot rod build.

03-07-2016, 02:53 PM	#8
Mikeinnj Senior Member Join Date: May 2010 Location: Northern New Jersey Posts: 1,262	Re: Purchase question Sounds like it will need a total rebuild if the block is not cracked.You would be better off buying a good core from a reputable engine re-builder and have him build a short block for you. I have traveled the road you are looking down and have ended up with several boat anchors.

03-07-2016, 02:57 PM	#9
Flathead Dave Senior Member Join Date: Dec 2012 Location: SOCAL Posts: 557	Re: Purchase question I wouldn't go over $50 after you see it and find no visible cracks. No telling what is in the inside of the block. __________________ "Some people are like slinkys. They're not really good for anything but they sure bring a smile to your face when they're pushed down the stairs"....

03-07-2016, 03:09 PM	#10
brito36 Senior Member Join Date: May 2010 Location: Marengo. Illinois Posts: 262	Re: Purchase question If it's locked up, it will need a total rebuilding. As one person stated, 'Too many unknowns' (cracked block etc...) I would probably take a pass unless I got it really cheap.

03-07-2016, 03:29 PM	#11
C26Pinelake BANNED Join Date: May 2010 Location: Michigan / Ontario border, Sarnia, Ontario. 50 miles from Detroit and 150 from Toronto. Posts: 5,800	Re: Purchase question Run don't walk! It is worth scrap metal price per pound. If if was any good it would not be stripped! Wayne

03-07-2016, 03:31 PM	#12
BILL WILLIAMSON Senior Member Join Date: Dec 2010 Location: FRESNO, CA Posts: 12,560	Re: Purchase question Twodoor, Figure in your head what it's REALLY worth to you, & flash 1/2 that amount, IN COLD HARD CASH TO HIM!--------CASH really TALKS!! AND, dress in Yo' POOR BOY CLOTHES & OLD sunglasses, that have been repaired with MASKING TAPE. Bill Hagler __________________ "THE ASSISTANT GURU OF STUFF"

03-07-2016, 03:49 PM	#13
Gil Sissons Senior Member Join Date: Dec 2013 Location: No Cal Posts: 224	Re: Purchase question Bob... I think 700rpm is right on track. Way too many unknowns. You may have missed a recent question here about the same subject. Memory says 80% of the blocks are junked by most builders. Fyi. Gil. NoCal

03-07-2016, 04:06 PM	#14
Synchro909 Senior Member Join Date: Jun 2014 Location: Melbourne, Australia Posts: 7,496	Re: Purchase question While the motor is still closed, you can't tell much about what's inside. If he won't let you at least take the head off or if it doesn't come off easily enough to do on the spot, I'd walk. That said, look into the head where the water pump should be and see how it is for rust. Do the same at the water outlet on the side of the block too, if you can. __________________ I'm part of the only ever generation with an analogue childhood and a digital adulthood.

03-07-2016, 04:19 PM	#16
J Franklin Senior Member Join Date: May 2010 Location: Oregon Posts: 5,962	Re: Purchase question Before you make a bid demand that you dismantle the block enough to determine if you want it. Open the trans also. The seller should have no reason not to allow it unless he knows or suspects real trouble to be revealed. If you still want it, figure it for parts only.

03-07-2016, 10:06 PM	#17
H. L. Chauvin Senior Member Join Date: May 2010 Posts: 4,179	Re: Purchase question FWIW: One experience with a "known" engine. Was offered my Uncle's rebuilt B engine with very low hours for Free. Engine was sitting out-of-doors for 10 years with one sheet of corrugated galvanize roofing on top, weighted down with chain. Removed head, removed oil pan, piston no. 3 locked. Soaked in Liquid Wrench for a week .... & would still not move. Shaped a cypress 4x4, placed on top of piston, "very carefully" hit with hammer, & kept squirting Liquid Wrench. Piston rings in only no. 3 rusted and were stuck to cylinder. Luckily rings finally broke loose with no piston damage. Rigged up a hone with 0000 steel wool on stones & polished a ring of rust off of cylinder with steel wool and kerosene. Only bought new rings for engine ... remainder of engine was a recent rebuild by a professional mechanic and was close to perfect. In Mr. Tudoor's case, nothing wrong with telling the seller the truth ..... with the seller's possibly not knowing the condition of the engine/transmission, it could require lots of time spent on investigating, cleaning, etc., and if the end result is a possible cracked block, and possible worn transmission gears under molasses thick oil, mention that you will have no choice but to bring it to the junk dealer to get how much ........ $XX.00. If he wants "your" cash for you to take a chance and gamble ..... maybe offer (2) buying prices ..... one for a good block and one for a cracked block ...... if he refuses ..... think ...... what would you care to lose with no complaints?

03-07-2016, 10:51 PM	#18
Capt Quahog Senior Member Join Date: Jan 2016 Location: Barren windswept mountain somewhere in bleak Northeastern Pennsylvania Posts: 294	Re: Purchase question If the engine is FOR SALE at a price and refuses to TURN looking to be seized then walk away. Forget about it! Should the dead frozen engine be offered for the taking FREE of charge, then depending upon your circumstance, it might be worthy of consideration. Here in Northeast Pennsylvania, I keep running across model A Ford turning / running engines for sale here n' there for between $100 - $500. A couple of weeks ago I saw a complete rebuilt Model A engine offered in Scranton for $800 OBO.

03-08-2016, 12:56 AM	#19
H. L. Chauvin Senior Member Join Date: May 2010 Posts: 4,179	Re: Purchase question Always wonderful to see so many sincere opinions offered. Would be interesting to hear "later this week" what Mr. Bob finds after seeing both this engine and this seller "in person". Somtimes a Model A parts seller is (10) times more interesting than the Model A parts he is selling.

03-14-2016, 11:19 AM	#20
Fred K-OR Senior Member Join Date: May 2010 Location: Stayton, Oregon Posts: 3,806	Re: Purchase question When I started to build my huckster, I had the engine in the old CCPU rebuilt by a local fellow. The pistons were stuck in the block-he had to break them to get them out and mice have lived in the pan for a number of years. He found a small crack in the block that he was able to fix. So I had him rebuild the engine-which he did. It works great and runs like a new one. But this engine had the same engine number that the frame has-thus the original engine in the old CCPU. So in my case it made sense to go ahead and rebuild the engine. Thus to answer your question about the engine you are looking at. It would seem like it would depend on how bad you need that engine. Like others said above, it you have other choices that are better, pass on this one. But if that is the only one you can find and you need it, then look it over and make your decision and offer a price based on your needs. Good luck __________________ Fred Kroon 1929 Std Coupe 1929 Huckster

03-14-2016, 04:18 PM	#21
1Tudoor Senior Member Join Date: Jan 2016 Location: Upstate in NY's beautifull hills Posts: 173	Re: Purchase question Well guys , I never did go look at the motor as he told me via ph he wanted $200 for it & I told him I thought it was a bit much . Thks again for the responses as they gave me some basic buying knowledge I was looking for . The motor , after tinkering would have been a backup for my 31 (not that I need another project)