1932 BB Dump

[totto]

I have a 1937 1 1/2 dump truck with PTO and hydraulic made by Garwood. Truck has 39,000miles . So if you need further "info", let me know. Was owned by a Bank in NYC and used on their property about 75 miles North of NYC. Was only used to haul garbage and yard waste to dump.

Henry

[Redpond2]

Originally Posted by tomcarman

I've been following this with much interest watching what real mechanics can do. I'm very impressed with the knowledge and progress both you and Chris, aka Sugar maker have done to keep these not only preserved but back in service. I applaud you. On a side note in my area an insurance company last year put a 32,33,34? I don't know anything about it other than I saw them setting it up for display as I was going into town. It appears to be a duelly and when they were getting it ready for their advertising display they built a flatbed with flower boxes on the bed. At the risk of hijacking this thread if you are interested in seeing pictures of it I'd be happy to stop and get some. From the road it looks like a rust bucket but I've not been close to it and I am curious just what year it actually is. With your permission I'll get some pics and post them in this thread.
Tom

I am no master in the shop, I’m a simple parts swapper. Lucky enough to have some pros around that will take my money when I get too deep into something! Go ahead and post some pics. If it has a fuel cab just below the windshield it’s an AA. If not and If it’s firewall is bolted then it is a 32, riveted it’s newer. Also the rear of the cab looks different between 32/33. Also 33 there is a brace in your door panel close to the lower door hinge. 32’s do not have that. I believe in 33 they went back to a foot start button rather than the pull cable. The firewall and rear of cab was the easiest way I was able to tell my year at a glance. There are many many other difference but I’m still a novice in the hobby. There’s a few guys on here who could tell you if you have the correct cotter pins or not.

Post pics for some inspiration though!

Totto- thank you, I believe that from 32-37 there was a ton of changes. Not sure how similar the two trucks would be. I’ll let you know if I find myself in a pickle. Thanks

[DavidG]

Nate,

In your photo of your water pump housing, please note the worn area to the left of the front of the housing. This is the result of the fan pulley moving rearward and wearing against the pump housing. The root cause is at the very back of the water pump impeller where it seats into a pocket in the casting of the cylinder head. Normally there should be a big fiber washer between the back of the impeller that interfaces with the pocket in the cylinder head to prevent metal-to-metal contact. Over time the fiber washer is worn to oblivion, the face of the pocket in the cylinder is worn, and the bearing surface on the back of the impeller is worn or all three and then the impeller starts to move back and forth when the engine is running, which speeds up the wear and eventually the fan pulley will wear right through the front of the water pump housing or worse with the castle nut on the front end of the pump shaft intermittently taking chunks out of the back of the radiator.

When you rebuild the water pump and assemble it to the cylinder head, there must be no free play fore and aft of the pump shaft. (Yes, the big brass bushing is pressed into the cast iron pump housing.)

I normally dissolve dried up old gasoline residue with lacquer thinner and then soak the entire fuel gauge tank unit in metal prep, followed by a thorough drying to ensure that all of the internal passages are free as the gauge works on differential air pressure built up by varying amounts of fuel in the tank.

[sugarmaker]

Nate,
Good progress on your "Red Truck". The engine does not surprise me, its 90 ish years old!
Was the Babbit and thrust good on your engine? Good luck with the engine evaluation.

I did several bandaid fixes on my waterpump rebuild/refurb. Items from Renners and Snyder's, got it back working but still not as Henery made it.

I will try to work on the seat frame for you. Keep after me! I believe I saved enough Ash lumber for that drivers side spring seat frame.

Keep hitting at it, and tell your grandfather and grandmother Hi from us!
Regards,
Chris

[Redpond2]

Thanks David- yes I did know to watch out for wear on that front grease channel. It does have some but nothing inhibitive of its function. My rear “cup” on the head looks pretty good. Chris looked at it while he was in town and was surprised. I do not know how much aft play it has as I did not check it. Still waiting to get to grandpas press, as time permits, so may put it back together with original parts and check. May go ahead and rebuild and assess once all new parts are in. I will let you guys know.

Been looking at my ignition drop assembly. Trying to get it off. Rebuilt kit from renners does not include a replacement for the “pinch bolt” that I can tell and either way it will need to slide off the top or bottom of the shaft. My question is, how do you get this off? Drop the steering box, remove horn rod, remove steering wheel? Or is there supposed to be an easier way? I have not had much luck on the forum or internet or my intuition on how to get this solo for rebuild and I want to avoid drilling unless I have to.

Got the tank primed and painted, did some cleaning on water pump, fuel sending unit, and put an eye on all brake rod pivot points (checked for play with no one at the pedal) they all look good but the test will be putting someone (likely grandpa) to pumping the pedal.

Small moves while engine is away at the model T/A/B block whisperer. Wish I could show you guys the crazy projects he has going on in there. Blew my mind what he could do to a T engine.

Hope as is well and everyone’s keeping cool, we had ~104 actual temp today. Hot by anyones standards!

-Nate

[DavidG]

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Nate,


There's no easy way to remove the steering column support bracket (drop). The light switch rod/horn button assembly needs to be removed and the steering wheel. That pinch bolt at the bottom of the bracket originally had a twist off head and short of having the slick period K.R. Wilson tool designed just for removing what is left of that bolt after the head is twisted off, you need to get creative. Before I had the good fortune to find one of those tools, I would drill three small overlapping holes in a line in the bolt head of sufficient size to permit the insertion of a hefty screwdriver blade. Then with perhaps a little heat and a crescent wrench on the blade of the screwdriver unscrew the remains of the bolt. Michael Driskell can supply a new bolt when it is time to put the bracket back together. You may need to spread the bottom of the bracket a small amount to ease thee bracket off the steering column tube.

If you have no key for the lock and it is the "off" and locked position, that's a different additional exercise on top of removing the 'pinch' bolt at the bottom.


P.S. Since one never knows when and why it may become necessary to work on the steering column down the road, I do not follow Ford's original practice. I do not twist the head off the new pinch bolt. I believe that the thinking with that bolt was that by having what became a headless bolt in that application after the head was twisted off it somehow deterred theft. But given what's left to be dealt with before the truck could be moved if it was locked would take a whale of a lot of time to accomplish

[sugarmaker]

Nate,
I can't help a bit. The completeness of my truck has allowed me to avoid ( at this time) some of the areas your working on.
Has your machine shop given you an indication of possible engine completion? Or still in disassembly/ evaluation phase? Either way your doing the right thing by getting the engine in good shape. You staying with babbit if it checks out ok? Lots of dollars to change to insert bearings as I am doing. But hoping you find good things in the 90 year old engine.
By the way temp is 78 here, with light breeze.
Good night to take the 32 for a spin!
Regards,
Chris

[Redpond2]

Hey guys- not a lot of progress on the truck since the last post, plans have changed somewhat though!

With my engine needing more work than was previously thought, my retired machinist has decided it’s more of a project he wants to tackle at the moment. No problem, I’m extremely appreciative of the expert eye’s inspection and diagnosis. With that knowledge; grandpa and I, mostly I with direction, will be tackling this engine.

Grandpa does have a test stand with auxiliary fuel and it’s own radiator to bench test once we get some work done so that will be helpful before final assembly!

Got the fuel tank primed and painted, new fuel shutoff valve, and the cleaned fuel sending unit installed ready for final assembly. Currently the best looking part of the truck and it’ll be mostly hidden by the seat! Haha

Looking at a “cold front” this weekend (high of 90-ish) then back up next week. Also, the Holley hot rod event is in town this weekend so, time allowing, may head over to it and check out the swap meet. May stumble upon some miscellaneous stuff I am searching for. Worst case, I spend $25 to look at a bunch of “go fast” parts and get to see some cool old cars. I’ve spent far more on lesser things..

Hoping to make some solid progress Saturday on the old truck and I plan on updating you guys then.

-Nate

[sugarmaker]

Nate,
As we spoke, that is a slight change of direction on the engine work. But on a positive note you will learn an lot and understand your engine much better. I built the side adaptor for my B engine yesterday. Maybe your Grandfather has one for doing A type engines? So far after one half of a rev I like it. That may make your work on the engine much easier.
I will put up some pictures in my ragged ol truck thread.
Mark the components, bag and tag fastners, evaluate, measure, view, clean, and correct any issues, and start putting it back. Sounds easy. Remember its just nuts and bolts!
Thanks for sending some of that heat our way too. NOT!





Next year maybe you can take your truck to the Hot Rod show??

Regards,
Chris

[Redpond2]

Originally Posted by sugarmaker

Nate,
As we spoke, that is a slight change of direction on the engine work. But on a positive note you will learn an lot and understand your engine much better. I built the side adaptor for my B engine yesterday. Maybe your Grandfather has one for doing A type engines? So far after one half of a rev I like it. That may make your work on the engine much easier.
I will put up some pictures in my ragged ol truck thread.
Mark the components, bag and tag fastners, evaluate, measure, view, clean, and correct any issues, and start putting it back. Sounds easy. Remember its just nuts and bolts!
Thanks for sending some of that heat our way too. NOT!





Next year maybe you can take your truck to the Hot Rod show??

Regards,
Chris

Thanks Chris for some progress pics- I’ve never been a good picture taker; years of grandma and cousin needing 80 pictures each for every gathering has slowly soured me to getting my phone out. Need to get better! Don’t worry, we’re keeping most of the heat down our way!

Some good news and some bad news- I have most of tomorrow spotted for truck work. Been needing some time in the garage! In prepping I was able to get the steering column out of the truck, letting the steering wheel soak tonight to try and remove tomorrow so I can the ignition drop assembly off and start rebuilding it. The bad news… someone’s tried this before. Got a bent, and slightly kinked, horn rod. Searching the barn I see few threads on repairing these and they don’t look promising. Any tips, anyone, on trying to straighten one or a lead on a good one if this is a poor endeavor? I have a couple ideas but not sure on efficacy of even trying.

Have all my seals together for the brakes and plenty rebuild kits waiting their turn. Trying not to get too many “mini projects” going at the same time so as not to get confused. A good chunk of my friends think I’m crazy for taking on a project of this size for it not to even “go fast” I’m making a list for when they ask for rides, we’ll see who has the last laugh!

On a side note: bought a new excavator this week, these new bobcats are pretty sweet!

[sugarmaker]

Nate,
Congrats on the excavator! Not sure how that will be used on the 32? But I am sure it could be handy?
Your in lots of truck areas where I have no clue how to help other than point you back to here on the barn with others that may have worked on the steering wheel rod issue.
Is it just bent? Maybe gently bend it back??
Thanks for the update on the Big Red truck!
Regards,
Chris

[DavidG]

Chris,


Worth a try, but usually once one of those rods is bent, it is time to look for a replacement. The thin wall thickness does not lend itself to straightening.

[cmbrucew]

Long bed lathe and a little heat on the bends SLOWLY.


Bruce

[Redpond2]

Ford Barner's- some updates and more questions.

Engine has been moved to grandpas shop, cordially known as "the old farts garage"

Got some progress done on the engine disassembly, we're about down to the bare block.

what is the best method of getting the guides out? I assume they are to be driven out upward from the bottom of the engine and I assume there is a fair amount of patience and lubrication needed. is heat recommended?

-I got a nice side mount engine stand bracket from the retired machinist at a fair price and that has proven to be invaluable thus far.

-got the pinch bolt for the column ignition assembly out with an extractor bit but the steering wheel is proving to be a PITA even with a model A wheel puller tool. I've worked it to a point where some threads are boogered (nothing a quick thread file won't fix but I gotta get the thing off first!) can heat be applied here or will the bentonite material fall apart?

-worked on the head studs some today. was patient enough on the first 2 and the third one snapped flush with the block; and it wasn't even the one that looked the worst. cursed across the shop and decided to let them soak another day or two with penetrant and give them a few more heat cycles.

While there was able to help grandpa some on his old model T; he cleaned the carb up and I ran some fuel line he couldn't get to. happy to pay my rent for the workspace in installments.

some discoveries on this old engine with new pistons... It likely wouldn't have ran with them in it. I don't have a dial indicator but with some quick math and a micrometer we found the cylinder walls to be ~.030 out of spec and found some weird wear on the STD size pistons. likely from piston slap when it was cranked over. there is one ridge that catches a nail on cylinder 3 very low on the wall.

So this will most likely need some boring done to it and I will order the proper fitting pistons and rings then. I have a bunch of seals, valve kit, head studs/nuts on the way, camshaft gear and socket for it (my cam gear nut looks to have never seen a chisel), and single lock tappets coming. should be here tomorrow.

Grandpa said it well "engine won't win any beauty contests but she'll run!" finding pretty solid babbitt's and an overall good core engine. she was in need of a good rebuild though! these guides concern me as they're pretty crusty and we will just have to see how many head studs I break.

Some pictures of the engine disassembly process:

[Bob C]

The valve guides come out through the bottom. https://www.snydersantiqueauto.com/p...8797&cat=41753

[DavidG]

Nate,

The valve guides insert into the block from the bottom up so they are removed downward, not upward. Snyder's have a replica of one of the effective original tools to remove the guides.


Judging from your photos, you won the lottery as that's a counterbalanced crankshaft. With everything else up to snuff, your engine will idle all the way down to about 200 RPM without a hiccup and will be smoother running over its entire operating range.


I note that Bob C beat me to it regarding the value guide removal tool at Snyder's and even provided a photo from their catalog. Thanks, Bob.

[sugarmaker]

Nate,
Good update on the big red truck! Good that it has the better crank! I think your on your way! I have a guide tool if you need it. Sounds like you have most of the parts you need. Check thrust and the rear oil passage back into pan. Small pipe on rear main.
Hope the babbit us good enough to run as is.
Regards,
Chris

[Redpond2]

Originally Posted by Bob C

The valve guides come out through the bottom. https://www.snydersantiqueauto.com/p...8797&cat=41753

Originally Posted by DavidG

Nate,

The valve guides insert into the block from the bottom up so they are removed downward, not upward. Snyder's have a replica of one of the effective original tools to remove the guides.


Judging from your photos, you won the lottery as that's a counterbalanced crankshaft. With everything else up to snuff, your engine will idle all the way down to about 200 RPM without a hiccup and will be smoother running over its entire operating range.


I note that Bob C beat me to it regarding the value guide removal tool at Snyder's and even provided a photo from their catalog.

Thanks Bob and David, this leads to a question then.. and just thinking this out before I get there. the valves are mushroomed at the bottom, does this mean at the uppermost travel limit of the valve the guides slip in and tool to install?

When driving them that will effectively be closing the valve, I assume there’s enough room to get the guides out and have room for a punch before valve closes too much. I guess I’ll find out pretty quick when I get there

EDIT- upon further inspection of the tool I can just hit the top of valves, all questions answered haha. A little look goes a long way!

[Redpond2]

Originally Posted by sugarmaker

Nate,
Good update on the big red truck! Good that it has the better crank! I think your on your way! I have a guide tool if you need it. Sounds like you have most of the parts you need. Check thrust and the rear oil passage back into pan. Small pipe on rear main.
Hope the babbit us good enough to run as is.
Regards,
Chris

Chris- yes I left out those details! There’s no thrust movement and babbitts looks more than good enough to run. I’ll check the rear oil passage. Like I said a real good core engine. Solid foundation to build on.

Hope all is well up in your neck of the woods. I appreciate you looking for some wheels for me, I MAY have a lead on some. Waiting on a FB message back, we will see!

Thanks-

[sugarmaker]

Nate,
All good here! Just working on a old B engine like you! Have you deccided to regrind your valves and seats and use the current valves? That would be good from a cost savings also. Your doing good! You got the tool figured out quick. Yep smak the top of the valve after the removal tool is in place. Surprised you grandfather doesnt have one of these tools?
Seat frame, just popped into my head too! Have to plane the boards. Maybe a diversion project for me, but still 32 related.
Regards,
Chris