Go Back   The Ford Barn > General Discussion > Model A (1928-31)

Sponsored Links (Register now to hide all advertisements)

Reply
 
Thread Tools Display Modes
Old 02-24-2022, 10:29 PM   #501
Terry Burtz, Calif
Senior Member
 
Join Date: May 2010
Location: Campbell,CA, USA
Posts: 313
Default Re: The Terry Burtz 5 main bearing engine blocks are back on track.

The "Builders Guide" found at www.modelaengine.com has been updated.

The latest revision is dated 23 February 2022. Please use the latest guide when building an engine.

Facebook group https://www.facebook.com/groups/1123377268114692 has a lot of information, videos, and hints from people building engines. There are a lot of videos showing deburring, dial indicator readings, and checking balance.

I have the design and working model of a modulating oil pressure relief valve. It has a slow leak through the clearance between the piston and housing and when the set pressure is reached, the leakage is through 3 orifices. As pumped volume increases, the orifices open larger to maintain the set pressure. The working model has been tested to 100 PSI and at 2500 RPM oil pump shaft speed which is equivalent to 5000 crankshaft RPM and it was able to maintain the set pressure. The working model was machined on a lathe and Bridgeport mill. Next week, I will talk to a CNC shop about production. This will be a huge improvement over the brass valves with a ball and spring that are either closed or open.
Terry Burtz, Calif is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 02-25-2022, 01:28 AM   #502
Russ/40
Senior Member
 
Russ/40's Avatar
 
Join Date: May 2010
Location: Santee, California
Posts: 3,505
Default Re: The Terry Burtz 5 main bearing engine blocks are back on track.

Terry, would you please describe attachment details for those of us who have already installed the first version (brass valve ) you suggested on our pumps. This would let us know if we can make adjustment to our existing pump plans.
Russ/40 is offline   Reply With Quote
Sponsored Links (Register now to hide all advertisements)
Old 02-26-2022, 09:08 AM   #503
GSleater
Junior Member
 
GSleater's Avatar
 
Join Date: Oct 2021
Location: Burbank Washington
Posts: 14
Default Re: The Terry Burtz 5 main bearing engine blocks are back on track.

Terry, looking forward towards your pressure relief valve. Just finished the modification to my oil pump and was just getting ready to order the specified relief valve.
GSleater is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 03-04-2022, 10:28 PM   #504
4bangerbob
Member
 
Join Date: Jun 2013
Location: Alberta Canada
Posts: 36
Default Re: The Terry Burtz 5 main bearing engine blocks are back on track.

Info from facebook recently posted on oil pump

To all:
I finally am able to price the oil pump. My target was $400 or less, but inflation and the issues around the world have driven the retail price up to $410. If you are interested, please email me at [email protected]. I am compiling a list of those interested. Their is absolutely no obligation to purchase.
4bangerbob is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 03-05-2022, 06:50 AM   #505
Dave in MN
Senior Member
 
Dave in MN's Avatar
 
Join Date: May 2010
Location: Jordan, MN
Posts: 1,410
Default Oil pump operation question

Quote:
Originally Posted by 4bangerbob View Post
Info from facebook recently posted on oil pump

To all:
I finally am able to price the oil pump. My target was $400 or less, but inflation and the issues around the world have driven the retail price up to $410. If you are interested, please email me at [email protected]. I am compiling a list of those interested. Their is absolutely no obligation to purchase.

I am following your oil pump project with interest in using them in upcoming builds. Is the relief system adjustable as to delivered pressure? If so, what is the range of adjustment?
Thanks for your efforts.
Good Day!
Dave in MN is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 03-05-2022, 07:27 PM   #506
4bangerbob
Member
 
Join Date: Jun 2013
Location: Alberta Canada
Posts: 36
Default Re: Oil pump operation question

Sponsored Links (Register now to hide all advertisements)
Quote:
Originally Posted by Dave in MN View Post
I am following your oil pump project with interest in using them in upcoming builds. Is the relief system adjustable as to delivered pressure? If so, what is the range of adjustment?
Thanks for your efforts.
Good Day!
Yes I would be interested to know if relief valve is adjustable and or range if it is adjustable.
4bangerbob is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 04-25-2022, 07:43 PM   #507
Terry Burtz, Calif
Senior Member
 
Join Date: May 2010
Location: Campbell,CA, USA
Posts: 313
Default Re: The Terry Burtz 5 main bearing engine blocks are back on track.

NEW HEAD UPDATE

We have received 2 new 6.5 to 1 pre-production heads that will be used for engineering evaluation before production is authorized.

Engineering evaluation consists of verification of all machined surfaces, flatness verification, visual verification, verification of wall thickness, and performance verification.


The machined surfaces on the first head have been verified to be correct by careful measurement and comparing the measurements to Ford drawing A-6050.

The revised water passage holes to divert more coolant to the rear are in their correct locations and look good.

The bottom of the new head was verified to be flat by placing it on a surface plate and the inability to slide a 0.002-inch feeler gauge anywhere between the head and the surface plate.

Visually, the combustion chambers all look good.

Visually, the new head was placed on 2 original cylinder blocks and held in place with 7/16 inch bolts through 2 stud holes. The length and width of the new head matched the original cylinder blocks and there was no overhang.

Visually, the 3 small marks where core wires protruded were present, and with exception of 4 small discrepancies, everything looked good.

The 4 discrepancies are that the delta foundry mark should be better defined, the area below the distributor retention setscrew has excess material, there is excess material where the water outlet meets the new head, and the scallops have evidence of machining instead of being a cast surface.

Each of the 4 exterior discrepancies could be corrected with a die grinder, Dremel tool, and a needle scaler from Harbor Freight, but our goal is to provide a part that may only require a minor touchup for points judging. We will be asking the foundry to make changes to the tooling to correct the discrepancies before the production run.

The new head has increased wall thickness in several areas that are prone to cracking. The first head has been cut apart to verify wall thickness and to ensure that there is no porosity, and everything looked great.

The attached pictures show the top and bottom of the new head, and after I cut it apart for wall thickness verification.


The second head will be sent to Dennis Kliesen for performance evaluation. Dennis has over 17,000 miles on his new engine that is currently using a 6.0 to 1 head. Dennis and I are working on a plan for evaluation.


There are many people actively building the new engine and their comments can be found at https://www.facebook.com/groups/1123377268114692
Attached Images
File Type: jpg New Head Upper.jpg (21.0 KB, 107 views)
File Type: jpg New Head Lower.jpg (25.9 KB, 121 views)
File Type: jpg New Head Cut Apart.jpg (22.6 KB, 109 views)
Terry Burtz, Calif is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 04-25-2022, 08:29 PM   #508
Terry Burtz, Calif
Senior Member
 
Join Date: May 2010
Location: Campbell,CA, USA
Posts: 313
Default Re: The Terry Burtz 5 main bearing engine blocks are back on track.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Russ/40 View Post
Terry, would you please describe attachment details for those of us who have already installed the first version (brass valve ) you suggested on our pumps. This would let us know if we can make adjustment to our existing pump plans.
Russ,

The attachment details are that the new relief valve has 1/8 NPT male threads.

The new relief valve is made of steel and the length is roughly half of what the brass ball pop-off valves are.

Before a production contract is awarded, I am waiting for CNC samples to test and verify that they work as well as the sample made on a lathe and mill.
Terry Burtz, Calif is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 06-02-2022, 03:18 PM   #509
Martin Larsen
Junior Member
 
Join Date: Mar 2020
Posts: 1
Default Re: The Terry Burtz 5 main bearing engine blocks are back on track.

Is there a pdf of the torque sequence for the Burt’s engine I can print out?
Martin Larsen is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 06-02-2022, 03:39 PM   #510
AL in NY
Senior Member
 
AL in NY's Avatar
 
Join Date: May 2010
Location: Southern Upstate New York
Posts: 1,149
Default Re: The Terry Burtz 5 main bearing engine blocks are back on track.

It should be the same as a stock Model A engine block.
__________________
AL in NY
AL in NY is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 06-02-2022, 05:14 PM   #511
Bob C
Senior Member
 
Join Date: May 2010
Location: So Cal
Posts: 8,711
Default Re: The Terry Burtz 5 main bearing engine blocks are back on track.

See the instructions in the Builders Guide on page 30, pay attention to the
third paragraph. http://www.modelaengine.com/new-engi...ers-guide.html
Bob C is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 06-02-2022, 05:24 PM   #512
Terry Burtz, Calif
Senior Member
 
Join Date: May 2010
Location: Campbell,CA, USA
Posts: 313
Default Re: The Terry Burtz 5 main bearing engine blocks are back on track.

The following is from section 7 of the "Builders Guide" in regards to head torque.

Head Torque

Head and cylinder block cracks between the stud holes and the water jacket at the center of the engine are caused by engine builders that use a clad head gasket and start in the center of the head and apply torque in large increments.

Apply head torque in increments no larger than 10 lb-ft. Larger torque increments can crack the head or cylinder block at the center, especially when using a clad head gasket with a soft core that has a lot of deflection during the application of torque. The Best 509C (clad) gasket compresses from 0.080 to 0.052 inches during the application of torque, and the Best 509G (graphite) compresses from 0.058 to 0.055 inches during the application of torque.

Instead of torquing in a spiral from the center of the head outwards, there is less chance of cracking a head if you start at the rear and work forward.

Cast iron heads need no more than 55 lb-ft of torque. Torque for aluminum heads is dependent on the thickness of the head because aluminum expands more than twice what cast iron expands for the same temperature change and you need to ask your head supplier for a recommended torque value.
Terry Burtz, Calif is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 06-23-2022, 08:52 AM   #513
wrpercival
Junior Member
 
Join Date: Jun 2019
Posts: 16
Default Re: The Terry Burtz 5 main bearing engine blocks are back on track.

The next container of 156 blocks is scheduled for delivery at the Port of Savannah around July 1st!

https://www.vesselfinder.com/.../ZIM-NEWARK-IMO-9290555...

Those currently on the reservation list will be hearing from us soon.
Attached Images
File Type: jpg zim newark.jpg (39.6 KB, 28 views)
wrpercival is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 06-23-2022, 09:19 PM   #514
denniskliesen
Senior Member
 
denniskliesen's Avatar
 
Join Date: Nov 2016
Location: SoCal
Posts: 877
Default Re: The Terry Burtz 5 main bearing engine blocks are back on track.

NEW CYLINDER HEAD EVALUATION

My evaluation results from the new Burtz head are now complete. I have a 160° thermostat in my engine.

The coolant mixture is 50/50 antifreeze to water. With the engine warmed up in 85° weather I measured the temperatures across the head above the exhaust valves, and all cylinders were equal.

The temperature along the left side of the head was equal from front to back. The temperature reading on the water jacket in the middle of the head running from front to rear was about 170° at the rear and was increasing to 180° at the front of the head where the water pump was mounted.

The water jacket at the rear of the cylinder block was 10° cooler compared to the water jacket at the front of the cylinder block.

My conclusion regarding the temperature of the cylinder head is even across the length of the head. So I would say the passages that were changed in either shape or closed in comparison to an original or aftermarket head have helped to keep the head temperature even.

I have no leaks anywhere and I checked the head for flatness and torqued the head down to 55 ft lbs in the sequence as recommended by Terry Burtz.

I traveled 2,800 miles on a recent trip to Kerrville, TX. During my return trip home I traveled through areas of Desert in New Mexico, Arizona, and California during the daytime in 100° temperatures. My Burtz Block never overheated or lost water.

I did a compression test after I installed the Burtz head and found the compression in all 4 cylinders 135 lbs. The previous head on my engine was a Snyder’s 6.0:1 and it had 110 lbs in all cylinders.

Terry Burtz told me the compression ratio is rated at 6.5:1. When I started my power performance testing I changed my spark lever to a little less total advance from the previous setting. On a stretch of a toll road in my area prior to the Burtz head I was able to just maintain speed on an incline, while the Burtz head easily had enough power to climb the grade and accelerate going up the road. I highly recommend this head based on my test results.
denniskliesen is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 06-24-2022, 10:11 AM   #515
alexiskai
Senior Member
 
alexiskai's Avatar
 
Join Date: Apr 2018
Location: Mebane NC
Posts: 2,329
Default Re: The Terry Burtz 5 main bearing engine blocks are back on track.

Dennis, these heads are stock-compatible, correct? I'm on the waiting list.
alexiskai is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 06-24-2022, 10:52 AM   #516
Chris Haynes
Senior Member
 
Chris Haynes's Avatar
 
Join Date: May 2010
Location: Camarillo, CA and Pine Grove, CA
Posts: 2,830
Default Re: The Terry Burtz 5 main bearing engine blocks are back on track.

I would like to see Dyno test results between a stock head and yours.
__________________
1921 Runabout
1930 Tudor
Early 1930 AA
Speed costs money. How fast do you want to go?
Chris Haynes is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 06-24-2022, 12:25 PM   #517
Bruce of MN
Senior Member
 
Bruce of MN's Avatar
 
Join Date: May 2010
Location: VA
Posts: 1,394
Default Re: The Terry Burtz 5 main bearing engine blocks are back on track.

Not this head, but have you seen this?

http://www.modelaparts.net/dynosheet...ynosheets.html
Bruce of MN is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 06-24-2022, 12:44 PM   #518
denniskliesen
Senior Member
 
denniskliesen's Avatar
 
Join Date: Nov 2016
Location: SoCal
Posts: 877
Default Re: The Terry Burtz 5 main bearing engine blocks are back on track.

Quote:
Originally Posted by alexiskai View Post
Dennis, these heads are stock-compatible, correct? I'm on the waiting list.
Yes, they are compatible with a stock engine. They will have the markings of an original stock head on the exterior.
denniskliesen is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 06-26-2022, 08:46 AM   #519
TinCup
Senior Member
 
TinCup's Avatar
 
Join Date: May 2010
Location: OKC / Tonkawa, Ok.
Posts: 1,977
Default Re: The Terry Burtz 5 main bearing engine blocks are back on track.

If you happened to find yourself in Kerrville and were able to put your hands on all of this new old technology you would immediately appreciate the engineering along with what is obvious to those that have followed this since 2007 the blood sweat and tears that have gone into bringing all this to market.
TinCup is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 06-29-2022, 04:15 PM   #520
alexiskai
Senior Member
 
alexiskai's Avatar
 
Join Date: Apr 2018
Location: Mebane NC
Posts: 2,329
Default Re: The Terry Burtz 5 main bearing engine blocks are back on track.

I just heard from John Lampl that they are expecting the new heads to be delivered late August. So potentially early Sept. before they would be in the hands of drivers. Just FYI in case people are weighing their options.
alexiskai is offline   Reply With Quote
Reply

Thread Tools
Display Modes

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off

Forum Jump

Sponsored Links (Register now to hide all advertisements)


All times are GMT -5. The time now is 04:53 AM.