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11-23-2019, 07:19 AM | #1 |
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Oil Filter Model A on timing cover
Hi Specialists
I have a model A Rodster pickup 1929 76A with the Oilfilter on the Timing cover. Its connected on the plug at the Oilpump Shaft. High pressure side. The Oil goes thrue the Filter into the timing cover. Its the Filter with the number A-6705 https://www.snydersantiqueauto.com/P...earchByKeyword I have the Question how this system is working? I suspect the oil goes from the pressure side of the oil pump through the filter on the steering housing in the engine So that is parallel to the previous way. I'm afraid that then oil volume is missing in the Valve Chamber Oil inlet. But It works for years. Get the Oil over the Steering cover also to the Valve Chamber Oil inlet? Can anyone explain to me? Kindly regards |
11-23-2019, 12:49 PM | #2 |
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Re: Oil Filter Model A on timing cover
It is called a by-pass system. Part of the oil goes through the filter and the remainder goes through the original route.
This type of system was used on many makes of cars for many years until they switched over the the full flow system which is much better.
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11-23-2019, 12:52 PM | #3 |
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Re: Oil Filter Model A on timing cover
It is filtering a portion of oil continuously, it is fed by a side tap, so all the oil is filtered over time. Most of the oil from the pump is going into the valve chamber. It is a proven system so you don't need to worry.
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11-23-2019, 03:42 PM | #4 |
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Re: Oil Filter Model A on timing cover
Has anyone also checked whether the filter is actually flowed through? (Slicing and dirt inspect after 2000 Miles.)
I doubt the open oil-pressureless system because the backflush valve in the filter cartridge needs about 3 - 3.5 PSI pressure to open the filter inlet!
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11-23-2019, 05:10 PM | #5 |
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Re: Oil Filter Model A on timing cover
Since the oil is also flowing to the valve area the valve is not needed & could be disabled.
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11-23-2019, 05:30 PM | #6 |
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Re: Oil Filter Model A on timing cover
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John
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11-24-2019, 04:27 AM | #7 |
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Re: Oil Filter Model A on timing cover
Good morning,
it is hardly possible to remove the rubber flutter valve. But I have just read that there are filter cartridges without a valve. Care must be taken when shopping. I think the other filter variant is the better one, in which the pressure oil in the valve chamber line is connected to the filter line. (That's how I did it on my Cit Traction.) Hi John, did you open the filter and saw the pollution?
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11-24-2019, 11:47 AM | #8 |
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Re: Oil Filter Model A on timing cover
Some opt for a "remote" oil filter installation that puts the filtered oil into the front of the valve chamber. See post #11 in this old thread: https://www.fordbarn.com/forum/showt...lter&showall=1
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11-25-2019, 09:44 AM | #9 |
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Re: Oil Filter Model A on timing cover
I just bought this filter but it is not installed yet.
Does anyone have experience with this one? https://www.snydersantiqueauto.com/P...earchByKeyword |
11-25-2019, 10:29 AM | #10 |
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Re: Oil Filter Model A on timing cover
I have that kit installed on mine for the last 5 years and it works just fine. When I installed it I loosened the return tube to see if there was a restriction due to the filter and there was none. The oil is flowing and normal volume.
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11-25-2019, 10:35 AM | #11 |
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Re: Oil Filter Model A on timing cover
I used one of those but the copper tube didn't fit like it was supposed to, I fabricated a tube that would fit using the supplied fittings and the filter seems to work fine.
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11-25-2019, 11:01 AM | #12 |
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Re: Oil Filter Model A on timing cover
I believe that that one ends up mounting teh filter on an angle, and can be messy getting it off and on. An Adapter is available so the filter is not on an angle.
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11-25-2019, 04:11 PM | #13 |
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Re: Oil Filter Model A on timing cover
Katy, thanks for helpin' hint! -
I tend now to the valve chamber lid version. I am currently restoring the oil pump. A gear oil pump that turns without play can generate very high pressures. There are also filters with a particularly low backpressure. From a technical point of view, no nominal loss of oil flow is to be expected. But if I understand correctly, the filter system fits only on the modernized cover plate and not on the 1928 version.
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11-25-2019, 04:35 PM | #14 |
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Re: Oil Filter Model A on timing cover
That is correct you will need the later style oil return pipe for the modification. the bypass filter is still a good option.
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11-25-2019, 05:25 PM | #15 |
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Re: Oil Filter Model A on timing cover
Allgairfan,I do not have the same filter in your link. Post 6
I have this filter which does not take oil at the oil pump. https://www.snydersantiqueauto.com/S...?word=A-6705-f I do not know about yours. John
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11-25-2019, 05:42 PM | #16 |
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Re: Oil Filter Model A on timing cover
J. Franklin,
does this only affect the length of the return pipe? Shortening or extending the tube is really no problem.
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11-25-2019, 06:45 PM | #17 |
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Re: Oil Filter Model A on timing cover
You can modify the tube, the ends are the same and are a soldered connection.
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11-26-2019, 04:40 AM | #18 |
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Re: Oil Filter Model A on timing cover
Thanks at all for the filter-idea and the many hints! I have chosen now the pressure oil version 'Bratton's oil-filter-kit'.
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11-26-2019, 08:07 AM | #19 | |
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Re: Oil Filter Model A on timing cover
Quote:
I have 12,000 mile on the kit shown old 31 and works great.After 1000 miles oil is starting to get dark. |
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11-26-2019, 11:19 AM | #20 |
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Re: Oil Filter Model A on timing cover
Here's how the tube on my CCPU was extended, It's kinda neat as one can see the oil flowing.
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11-26-2019, 01:00 PM | #21 | |
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Re: Oil Filter Model A on timing cover
Quote:
Anything else needed? I seem to remember something about a need to convert to a pressurized oil system when running a filter, or perhaps I am confusing running a filter and pressurized oil system when going to insert bearings? How many miles did your oil start getting dark before adding a filter? |
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11-26-2019, 06:41 PM | #22 | |
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Re: Oil Filter Model A on timing cover
Quote:
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11-26-2019, 06:50 PM | #23 |
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Re: Oil Filter Model A on timing cover
Thanks Jim, wanted the comparison. On my truck at 500 miles mine is black, not running a filter. I keep hearing about people with no filter getting 800-1000 miles before it turns black - no filter.
May consider putting on a filter next year, have resisted so far thinking it is not needed with 500 mile oil changes. But has always bothered me that my oil is so black at 500 miles. Even with rebuilt motor, Berts carb, and decent plug reads. Have considered changing from Shell T4 to something different, have heard claims that Rotella t4 looks dirty sooner than other oils. |
11-26-2019, 09:48 PM | #24 |
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Re: Oil Filter Model A on timing cover
I noticed after rebuilding my block and sealing it with Glyptal the oil stayed clean for a long time with out a filter. Cast iron has a lot of carbon.
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11-27-2019, 11:28 AM | #25 |
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Re: Oil Filter Model A on timing cover
Years ago I had an F-150 w/a 300 CID 6 cylinder. After about 200,000 miles or so I replaced all the main and rod bearing with .001" undersize inserts and also replaced the oil pump w/a high volume pump. After that the oil stayed cleaner a lot longer. I suspect that was due to more oil going through the filter.
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11-30-2019, 02:27 AM | #26 |
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Re: Oil Filter Model A on timing cover
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But this has little influence on the color of the oil. Oil gets darker due to the soot from the combustion entering the oil circuit. If this soot is held in suspension by the oil additives so that it can not settle into the interior of the engine, the oil quickly turns black because the dissolved thin soot can not be retained much by the filter. I would like to say that the color of the oil is hardly dependent on whether a filter is installed or not. The darkening depends on the formation of very fine soot, which occurs especially with a rich mixture on idle and cold running. If you use a good mineral oil over API "SC", the soot remains in suspension and will be flushed out the next time you change oil. In non-cleaning oils (API "AA" or "AB"), the soot inside settles and gradually decomposes into tar in the sump.
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12-13-2019, 11:31 AM | #27 | |
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Re: Oil Filter Model A on timing cover
Quote:
I have a unknown part at the end of the oil line in the valve chamber. I don't know the sense. Anyone a hint?
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12-14-2019, 11:36 AM | #28 | |
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Re: Oil Filter Model A on timing cover
Quote:
I have no idea as to what that fitting in your block is for. Hopefully some one can tell us.
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12-15-2019, 06:27 PM | #29 |
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Re: Oil Filter Model A on timing cover
Good evening! Thank you for the informations.
I dismantled the mysterious part, it doesn't make sense in my eyes. The filter installation has now been completed. Yes, there were a few twists until the copper pipe fit exactly. But the conversion kit is precisely manufactured. The M & H oil filter is not optimal. It has a non-return flatter valve which unnecessarily obstructs the narrow-breasted oil pump. I am therefore looking for a suitable filter without a fw valve. I will report!
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12-18-2019, 03:38 PM | #30 |
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Re: Oil Filter Model A on timing cover
Hallo,
the filter set is well thought. It suit fits well. Katy's suggestion is also helpful. Thank you for your help on this chapter!
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12-18-2019, 04:07 PM | #31 | |
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Re: Oil Filter Model A on timing cover
Quote:
Modern engines Since the late 50's all use full flow filtering. All the oil goes through the filter after it leaves the pump and before it gets to the bearings, including the Ford 300. As Werner said, the filter will not remove the black color from the oil. The black is from carbon, generally from too rich a mixture. The carbon particles are too fine to be trapped in the filter. The filter removes metal and abrasive particles. If it was made of fine enough material to catch the carbon it would plug up and bypass in a very short time. Detergent oils are misnamed, or at least the name is misinterpreted by most people. Detergent oil will not clean your engine the way laundry detergent cleans your clothes. It contains additives that hold the carbon and other contaminants in suspension so they can be removed from the engine when the oil is changed. |
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12-19-2019, 10:35 AM | #32 |
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Re: Oil Filter Model A on timing cover
[QUOTEAs Werner said, the filter will not remove the black color from the oil. The black is from carbon, generally from too rich a mixture. The carbon particles are too fine to be trapped in the filter. The filter removes metal and abrasive particles. If it was made of fine enough material to catch the carbon it would plug up and bypass in a very short time.][/QUOTE]
Centrifugal oil filters do a good job of removing particulate oil contaminants. They're used on a lot of diesel engines.
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12-19-2019, 01:32 PM | #33 |
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Re: Oil Filter Model A on timing cover
Another note about the filter cartridge:
The backflow valve is a rubber membrane. This reduces the flow rate a little bit. Therefore I perforated the membrane so that more oil can flow.
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12-20-2019, 12:31 AM | #34 |
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Re: Oil Filter Model A on timing cover
Not sure why you would have to do that. I'm sure the discharge pressure of the positive displacement oil pump would overcome any minute amount of resistance. But if it makes you feel better, go for it.
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12-20-2019, 06:13 AM | #35 |
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Re: Oil Filter Model A on timing cover
Werner,
How did you perforate the rubber without getting debris into the filter? Peace Phred |
12-20-2019, 02:48 PM | #36 |
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Re: Oil Filter Model A on timing cover
Guten Abend Phred.
It's a bit fiddly. Pull with tweezer and cut off with a scalpel.
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01-04-2020, 08:37 AM | #37 |
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Re: Oil Filter Model A on timing cover
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01-04-2020, 08:43 AM | #38 | |
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Re: Oil Filter Model A on timing cover
Quote:
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01-04-2020, 10:50 AM | #39 |
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Re: Oil Filter Model A on timing cover
At $172, I can afford a number of oil changes! Sold the aFORDable kit here years ago. Because I have headers, I had the remote mounting kit. Much easier to change the filters. Cut open the filters twice and didn't see enough crud to justify the cost.
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01-07-2020, 01:06 PM | #40 |
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Re: Oil Filter Model A on timing cover
Supplement
These MANN filters have no non-return valve ex works: W 940/21 No non-return valve, no bypass valve
W 940/71 No non-return valve, but with bypass valve 2,5 bar
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01-12-2020, 11:17 AM | #41 |
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Re: Oil Filter Model A on timing cover
Last edited by brokenspoke; 01-12-2020 at 11:30 AM. |
02-12-2020, 04:17 PM | #42 |
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Re: Oil Filter Model A on timing cover
Guten Abend.
Today the oil filter is also installed. I will report how much dirt it gets out of the oil circulation. But it takes 10,000 mls until I cut it open. Before that, I'l report how the oil pressure display changes and the circulation temperature. BTW, the blue stripe on the filter head shows the reached temperature.
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10-04-2020, 08:04 AM | #43 |
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Re: Oil Filter Model A on timing cover
Got the Mike's Affordable kit on my 29 , some info and pics here oil way cleaner
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10-04-2020, 11:55 AM | #44 |
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Re: Oil Filter Model A on timing cover
Good Morning....No Fram Filter...so which filter is your favorite? Ernie in Arizona
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10-04-2020, 01:35 PM | #45 |
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Re: Oil Filter Model A on timing cover
Motorcraft, Wix or K&N filters for me
Interesting article on oil filters here https://automotiveamerican.com/2018/...-russ-w-knize/
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10-04-2020, 03:24 PM | #46 |
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Re: Oil Filter Model A on timing cover
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10-05-2020, 09:38 AM | #47 |
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Re: Oil Filter Model A on timing cover
So is the side cover mounted one.
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10-06-2020, 01:50 PM | #48 |
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Re: Oil Filter Model A on timing cover
Wix 51515 or Napa 1515 (made by Wix) oil filters that fit the valve cover set up
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10-06-2020, 03:47 PM | #49 | |
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Re: Oil Filter Model A on timing cover
Quote:
Last edited by Y-Blockhead; 10-06-2020 at 03:49 PM. Reason: Spellin' |
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