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Old 05-21-2014, 11:32 PM   #1
Blownflatheaddeuce
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Default Vave lash qun...

Guys my cam card says a HOT adjustment of int .012" / exh .014"

What should the cold settings normally be? Is there a .002" difference b/w the two?

If so should it be set cold int .010" / .012" exh ? I usually set em hot on the 8BA.

Thanks

BFD
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Old 05-22-2014, 01:49 AM   #2
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Default Re: Vave lash qun...

ford flathead v/8 engines valves are set cold before you start the engine, other wise you will have to pull the intake manifold to set the valves, most valves are set at .012 int and .014 exh, some yrs use .014 int and .018 exhaust, need the yr engine to give you the exact info
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Old 05-22-2014, 03:35 AM   #3
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Default Re: Vave lash qun...

Its a 37 21 stud with e regournd cam .330" lift [email protected]".

I really wanted to know what diff will be b/w a specified hot lash setting when setting them cold.

Thanx
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Old 05-22-2014, 11:57 AM   #4
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Default Re: Vave lash qun...

I don't know, don't need to know, I set them as the factory did, set cold, if any difference between hot and cold the ford engineers have already computed that, why do you want to know that? do you plan on taking the engine apart to set the valves hot, absolutely no reason to do that, or are you just curious? I don't think you can set them hot, by the time you get to the valves the engine has already started to cool off, and by the time you set 16 valves half of them will be set cold, I don't understand what you want or your thinking
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Old 05-22-2014, 12:06 PM   #5
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Default Re: Vave lash qun...

His cam card give HOT specs not cold.
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Old 05-22-2014, 12:15 PM   #6
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Default Re: Vave lash qun...

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Warm up engine. Shut down, drain coolant, pull both heads, pull intake manifold, Check valve clearance and ,,, Oh damn the engine cooled done. Lets put it back together and start over.
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Old 05-22-2014, 01:32 PM   #7
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Default Re: Vave lash qun...

Maybe I'm wrong, but I don't see how a person could adjust flathead engine valves with the engine HOT.
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Old 05-22-2014, 01:50 PM   #8
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Default Re: Vave lash qun...

It would be unpleasant and inconvenient to say the least. Maybe it is a misprint on the cam card, as most overhead valve valves are set hot.
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Old 05-22-2014, 02:19 PM   #9
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Default Re: Vave lash qun...

I think what you have is a standard cam card used in all kits, 99% of which would be overheads. I would think you are fine assuming that cold setting is intended here, call'emup and ask if you are nervous about it.
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Old 05-22-2014, 02:50 PM   #10
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Default Re: Vave lash qun...

Quote:
Originally Posted by Blownflatheaddeuce View Post
Guys my cam card says a HOT adjustment of int .012" / exh .014"

What should the cold settings normally be? Is there a .002" difference b/w the two?

If so should it be set cold int .010" / .012" exh ? I usually set em hot on the 8BA.

Thanks

BFD
If you set them 10-12 cold they would be 8-10 hot. SO, set them 12-14 cold and forget about it. Walt
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Old 05-22-2014, 03:09 PM   #11
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Default Re: Vave lash qun...

Can't call em up, they closed down back along.
I'd say it's a cold gap. Never gonna get um all done whilst it's all hot. Wouldn't bloody like to either.
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Old 05-22-2014, 03:18 PM   #12
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Default Re: Vave lash qun...

Listen to Walt, he has dome more of these engines than most of us have seen.
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Old 05-22-2014, 06:37 PM   #13
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Default Re: Vave lash qun...

Quote:
Originally Posted by Blownflatheaddeuce View Post
Its a 37 21 stud with e regournd cam .330" lift [email protected]".

I really wanted to know what diff will be b/w a specified hot lash setting when setting them cold.

Thanx
I don't think it would be much, you'ld be talking about the expansion rate of the valve itself plus the lifter in relation to the portion of the block above the cam bore to the valve seats...

I think that it may be that the grinder does a lot of OHV cams and has sent a generic instruction sheet... Might be fun to inquire.

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Old 05-22-2014, 07:50 PM   #14
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Default Re: Vave lash qun...

Quote:
Originally Posted by Walt Dupont--Me. View Post
If you set them 10-12 cold they would be 8-10 hot. SO, set them 12-14 cold and forget about it. Walt
The cam card states HOT.

And thats what I wanted to know Walt - its generally a .002" diff b/w hot and cold.
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Old 05-22-2014, 08:22 PM   #15
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Default Re: Vave lash qun...

The method I always use, courteousy the late Great Rumbleseat...
Sounds like you are getting into building a real good 21 stud. Way to go, in my opinion the best flatheads Ford built.

(1)Degreeing the valves
(not the cam). Degreeing the cam using a single exhaust
and intake lobe assumes each lobe is EXACTLY the same. I don’t find this to be
true in very many cases.
Degreeing the valves is by far the most accurate in my
opinion. This is done on the engine stand after valves, cam, crank and #1 piston
is installed. BTDC is Before Top Dead Center and TDC is Top Dead Center and CW
is ClockWise and CCW is CounterClockWise. Bring up #1 piston to exactly TDC.
Make and install a pointer near the crankshaft pulley. Install a degree wheel on
the crank pulley. Index the degree wheel so the pointer is exactly pointing at 0
degrees and secure the degree wheel to the crank pulley (a couple of strip
magnets work). Be careful to not disturb the degree wheel or pointer from this
point on.
Example: Let’s assume a particular cam’s spec for an intake valve to begin
opening is 20 degree BTDC. Back off the crank shaft CCW about 30 degrees (BTDC)
or so using the crankshaft nut and a long breaker bar. You want to be able to
rotate the crankshaft easily and smoothly, so use a long bar or a cheater pipe.
Install a dial indicator on #1 piston’s intake valve. Turn the crank CW (always
turn the crank CW (facing the front of the engine) when setting and checking
valve clearances) until the degree pointer is 20 degrees BTDC on the degree
wheel. This is when the valve should barely begin lifting off its seat. Adjust
the adjustable lifter until the valve moves the dial indicator’s needle less than
a thousandth of an inch. Time to check it. Turn the crank CCW several degrees
before 20 degrees. Now turn the crank very slowly CW while watching the dial
indicator closely. The needle should just barely twitch when the 20 degree BTDC
mark on the degree wheel lines up with the pointer. If it doesn’t, re-adjust the
lifter and check again. When satisfied, back off (CCW) the crankshaft until you
reach the spot where the lifter to valve clearance is the greatest. This is
determined by trying various thicknesses of feeler gauges while rocking the crank
back and forth several degrees. All that’s left is to measure the clearance
between the valve and lifter using a feeler gauge. This is #1 Intake valve’s
clearance. Record it for future use as #1 Intake for your records. That valve
is done. Now do all the valves. Don’t forget to record their clearances as you
go..... for your records. After the first couple of valves, it goes pretty fast.
I degree valves in a flathead in a few hours after the initial set up.
A real benefit is in the future I need only to re-set the clearances of each
valve to the clearances recorded and the valve is degreed. How? I turn the
crank so the lifter is the farthest from the valve. Let’s assume a particular
valve was degreed at 0.011" clearance. Since valve clearance normally increases,
we can use a feeler gauge thicker than 0.011" to determine where the lifter is
furthest from the valve. Use the thickest feeler gauge that’ll slide in between
the lifter and valve. Say it’s 0.014". With the 0.014" feeler gauge between the
lifter and valve, rotate the crank back and forth several degrees until you find
the spot the feeler gauge is the loosest. Now adjust this to 0.011" clearance
and it’s exactly the same as if you just degreed it! Neat... neat! Degreeing

valves always results in an increase in horsepower.
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Old 05-22-2014, 09:16 PM   #16
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Default Re: Vave lash qun...

There is a KRW raised intake stack that leaves the valve chamber exposed for exactly the reasons stated, the valves are cold by the time you get to them otherwise. Failing to obtain one of those risers, quickly pull the intake and set one set of valves to the stated clearance, go have lunch and recheck clearance on the same valves again. That way you'll have generated your own answer and won't have to deal with questions of why, why, why?
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Old 05-22-2014, 11:44 PM   #17
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Default Re: Vave lash qun...

I have installed a lot of cams in the ford flathead, stock mild and wild, and never have I had instructions to set the valves hot, clearly a miss print,i have had instructions from foreign parts, by some one at the factory who thought he could read and speak English, giving redicules instruction,s there are times when you have to use your brain and realize the instructions are wrong
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Old 05-23-2014, 08:35 PM   #18
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Default Re: Vave lash qun...

Okay, I've had a few beers, Friday before a long weekend and what the heck, post away!

Folks get all concerned about flathead valve clearances - I used to be the same. I read every dang cam card, pondered hot vs. cold, etc. So here are a few conclusions after many years of running them:

1) I have yet to find a situation where the clearances were tighter down the road then when I set them . . . hasn't happened yet.

2) I always set them on the tight side of any spec - as I've spent WAY too many hours taking intakes off, only to find the clearances were .003 to .006 bigger than I set them.

3) So . . . I pretty much set EVERY flat tappet flathead cam to about .010 to .012 on the intakes and .012 to .014 on the exhausts. It has worked very well for me - as noted above, they always seem to 'loosen' a bit in a very short period of time.

4) Adjustable Lifters: The single biggest issue is that a lot of them have a poor interference fit between the adjuster and the body - so they are too loose and won't hold adjustment. With BIG high-lift cams, the situation gets worse (think Potvin 425) - just not enough threads to hold the adjustment. So, think about thin 'jamb nuts' to lock down your adjustments with big cams on used Johnson style lifters. If you can jamb-nut them, you'll be amazed how your lash settings actually STAY PUT. Buy some thin 'lifter wrenches' - or grind your 7/16 wrenches down to be 'tappet wrenches' - then with a thin jamb nut on the adjuster - you can lock it in. Trust me - this is what you should be thinking about doing.

Okay - onto my next beer . . . glug, glug, glug . . .

B&S
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Old 05-23-2014, 09:01 PM   #19
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Default Re: Vave lash qun...

But....Can you drink beer with one hand and type with the other?????

I used to have one of those goofy hats with the beercans like an IV.....Now for another beer while I ponder my clattering lifters> The L-100 specs call for .016 for both. I should have went with .014 huh? Glug glug!!!!
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Old 05-24-2014, 10:53 AM   #20
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Default Re: Vave lash qun...

Dale thats EXACTLY what Ive experienced.

The thrust of my OP was to learn exactly what the diff would be cold v hot ie: .002" so I could set them cold.

Ive set them exactly as you have described above knowing that a/ the cam ain't a radical one with spring or lobe ramps and b/ they tend to loosen a tad over time.

Mine were very tight on the adjuster threads but I also added Loctite to the threads before adjusting them.

Thanks to all for the input, below is the patient !
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Old 05-25-2014, 07:31 PM   #21
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Default Re: Vave lash qun...

Ford had a tower intake manifold adapter so you could run the engine with the valley exposed. Good luck finding one of them.

Meanwhile back at the farm, if a tolerance calls for 0.014-0.018 clearance I just split the difference and set them at 0.015-0.016 and call it a day. Hasn't let me down yet.
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Old 05-27-2014, 09:35 AM   #22
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Default Re: Vave lash qun...

The KRW lifteruppers were just for locating valve train noise and misbehaviors.
They were NOT intended for adjustment because no Fords had any provision for any sort of adjustment that could be done on an assembled engine.
The intent was that the mushroom stem valves were set by length* at factory assembly assembly and reset only as part of teardown and valve job in service. The idea, supported by mushroom stems and later by hardened seats, was that the valves would not need adjustment until the engine needed major work anyway. I do believe it worked...flathead valves in normal service don't need adjustment in use. Obviously the factory numbers were based on engineering calculations and measurements of what would be right hot.

*(I think the factory procedure was that the seat-to-lifter depth of a finished block was measured with special micrometer and the dimension scribbled on the block surface. Then pre-measured valve assemblies were dropped in to suit. This is essentially what would have been done in a professional garage valve job, too, measure the depth with special cone-seated micrometer, grind stems in the refacing machine. Welding or brazing lifter and cutting its top in same machine for loose assemblies, or hot rod cams.)
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Old 09-05-2016, 02:36 PM   #23
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Default Re: Vave lash qun...

Quote:
Originally Posted by Walt Dupont--Me. View Post
If you set them 10-12 cold they would be 8-10 hot. SO, set them 12-14 cold and forget about it. Walt
Correct me if I'm wrong but this seems backwards.

Sorry to bring up an old thread but I'm trying to set my valve lash and it calls for 10-12 hot. Does anyone have a idea how much they expand. I know on my ohv with iron block and heads it's 4-6
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Old 09-05-2016, 04:06 PM   #24
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Default Re: Vave lash qun...

As the valve and lifter expand it is going to decrease the clearance. No idea what the real number is, but using the same numbers posted in this thread if the clearance was set at .010 on the intake cold and hot it expanded .002 the clearance would now be .008. As the valve and lifter expand the clearance decreases.

On an OHV engine it is a totally different thing. You have a lifter, a push rod, a rocker arm and then a valve stem. All of these components are going to expand and it is going to be more expansion than just a lifter and a valve stem in a flathead. OHV procedures are not going to transfer well to flatheads in the valve train area.

"Sorry to bring up an old thread but I'm trying to set my valve lash and it calls for 10-12 hot."

Now why would anyone provide flathead cam numbers in Hot vs Cold? Where is the cam from and why hot valve lash number??

Last edited by JSeery; 11-05-2016 at 02:35 PM.
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Old 09-05-2016, 04:19 PM   #25
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Default Re: Vave lash qun...

Quote:
Originally Posted by JSeery View Post
As the valve and lifter expand it is going to decrease the clearance. No idea what the real number is, but using the same numbers posted in this thread if the clearance was set at .010 on the intake cold and hot it expanded .002 the clearance would now be .008. As the valve and lifter expand the clearance decreases.

On an OHV engine it is a totally different thing. You have a lifter, a push rod, a rocker arm and then a valve stem. All of these components are going to expand and it is going to be more expansion than just a lifter and a valve stem in a flathead. OHV procedures are going to transfer well to flatheads in the valve train area.

"Sorry to bring up an old thread but I'm trying to set my valve lash and it calls for 10-12 hot."

Now why would anyone provide flathead cam numbers in Hot vs Cold? Where is the cam from and why hot valve lash number??
I might be picking pepper out of knat shit but the cam also increases 3 dimensionally with temperature. Wonder if Farmer John knew about pepper in knat shit back in the 40's?
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Old 09-05-2016, 04:42 PM   #26
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Quote:
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I might be picking pepper out of knat shit but the cam also increases 3 dimensionally with temperature. Wonder if Farmer John knew about pepper in knat shit back in the 40's?
LOL, that it does!
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Old 09-06-2016, 12:27 PM   #27
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Default Re: Vave lash qun...

If it is that important to know the hot setting here is a possible approach. Set them a bit loose or even the 12 - 14 will work. Take the car for a good ride to eat everything up. It will stay hot for a while now. Pull the intke and check the valve clearance for one cylinder or maybe two. Compare with the original settings. If you set them at 12 and you measure 10 you will need 14 toy get 12 hot. You have now determined the expansion characteristics for YOUR engine. And now you will have a corresponding cold setting to get the hot one you want. A little loose might be noisy but too tight will not let the valve seat and cool sufficiently. That is where you definitely do not want to venture into.
Just wondering if anyone ever tried to adapt hydraulic lifters to a flathead. Would be a ton of work but we're noted for stupid stuff like that.
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Old 11-05-2016, 01:06 PM   #28
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Default Re: Vave lash qun...

I am in the process of overhauling my 59ab and am setting valve lash this morning. I have been working from the small ford company engine service manual. It's the one with the orange cover. 'Stock' engine, stock cam, nos 8ba valves and guides without rotators, adj lifters. The chart in the back of this ford manual states that valve clearance for 59 ab intake is .010-.012 and exhaust is .014-.016. As I install each valve I have been setting them at .010 and .014 because That's within factory specs and I like them quiet. While everything is open and accessible, should I open them up a bit like .011 and .015 just to be safe? All work shown in this book is being done on an engine stand or work bench so we know the settings are for 'cold'. Maybe I'm picking pepper, but hey, why not at this 'easy to change stage'.
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Old 11-05-2016, 02:39 PM   #29
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Default Re: Vave lash qun...

Quote:
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The chart in the back of this ford manual states that valve clearance for 59 ab intake is .010-.012 and exhaust is .014-.016. As I install each valve I have been setting them at .010 and .014 because That's within factory specs and I like them quiet. While everything is open and accessible, should I open them up a bit like .011 and .015 just to be safe?
I would set them tight like you have (or are going to have). .010 & .014, they are going to get looser over time.
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Old 11-05-2016, 05:28 PM   #30
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Default Re: Vave lash qun...

It might be fun to take a spare or used valve and measure it accurately and then heat it with a torch and re-measure and give the answer here for the rest of us.
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Old 11-05-2016, 07:07 PM   #31
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I would set them tight like you have (or are going to have). .010 & .014, they are going to get looser over time.
Thanks, I'll go with that!
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