'21-'22 Coupe Broken Tranny, and a couple Pics just to please you!

[jim galli]

So this is what the broken tranny looks like. How would you approach? Replace broken pieces, get new - ish bands, or look for a good used tranny?

And here are a couple of pretty pics.......just because :~'))

Maxi

[yachtsmanbill]

A few pertinent points: Use, Money, Thoroughness come to mind. Used trans are cheap and a BIG crap shoot. If they are off, they probably have problems. I was 3 for 3. Finally gor a new low speed drum and went through it. GET THE BOOK.
Looks dry for 30 years, so dont be surprised if something else breaks coming apart. In that condition I would scrutinize every single piece that came off. You can buy rebuilt gears from the vendors but they charge for the non usable core parts. You will learn much grasshopper!
It would be prudent to go through the entire flywheel and MAG coil and crankshaft stuff while in there besides braring, rings and valves. Personally, Id consider a decent running take out (several on edog right now) or put 2K+ into this one. Honestly, it looks pretty tired. Get another and part this one out. It may have even bent the crank end and then... ws

[[email protected]]

Bottom line, take it apart and do your investigative work first. There's a whole bunch of people here that are just waiting to help you out. You'll be surprised how far you can get by just asking question and getting help when you can. Less than a year ago, though I had some abilities as a mechanic I found I had a ways to go before I'd know anything about the model t. Since buying my first one I've learned a bunch. I just finished rebuilding my first model t transmission and magneto. I'm going to do another one next winter. I plan on needing a whole lot less help on the next one. At any rate, if it wasn't for this website I would have found myself wasting a lot of time and struggling much worse than I did.

[Stinch]

Originally Posted by jim galli

Maxi

Great picture, hard not to smile after seeing that

Rich

[MrModelT]

Either way, The motor has to come out....and if it does go through it all and thoroughly!

Bill is right, as is Mike. I wouldn't just go for a "used" trans...because that is exactly what you might end up with. I would have yours rebuilt by someone that knows what they are doing or rebuild it yourself, that way you know what was done and that it was done right.

Just plan on going through that motor from hand crank to rear ball cap: New Babbitt bearings, boring work (if needed), stainless valves/seats, trans rebuild, new bands, properly balanced, the WORKS. You can only guess as to the condition of the motor until you open it up.

There is a series of books covering the Engine, trans, rear axle, etc that are a MUST as well, I think Bill mentioned them.

[jim galli]

Sponsored Links (Register now to hide all advertisements)

Thanks for all the good advice.

My purpose isn't to have a perfect Model T, but rather to experience the Model T as a used car buyer in the late 1930's might have. Some wear is expected. Trips won't be long.

I'm investigating another car buried deep in a building in town here locally that supposedly has a usable spare engine / trans?? maybe.

I'm forcing myself to not get in a hurry on this. (not working out too well). I have a '31 coupe project that needs to get done before the T. But a massive garage clean out including new garage door installation has to preclude all of it, because this car needs to live indoors at this time in it's life.

[[email protected]]

Boy I just don't know about these guys that think it's more important to work on a Model A then a real automobile (model t of course). OK Jim I'm just messin' with ya. What I really want to do is congratulate on a great find and let us know what happens with the T that's buried back in a building somewhere.

[MrModelT]

Jim,

I hear ya I'm not suggesting a full resto.....just the mechanical necessities. Babbitt bearing material is good and strong, but it does age....and not well sometimes. A Babbitt motor that has been sitting (especially with old oil in it) can have issues when re-activated. The Babbitt can crack and crystallize, causing them to fail. That is exactly what was happening to my old motor for my Roadster.

A good spare engine would be nice, but I would still be suspicious of the bearings and such until I had my hands on them. Then again...if it was a complete runner....why not

[dumb person]

What a bunch of pessimists, Just because a drum has a crack is no reason to give up on the whole trans'. Sure that one there looks very broken but if you found a better one that was cracked, well i have seen them brazed but not sure how that worked out for them, Guessing you would need a skilled cast iron welder to braze it? It's not like it will do thousands of miles every day.
i would clean it, repair it and see how well it runs. It might not be as bad as some people think but it would not hurt to look at them when you clean it for repairs.

[[email protected]]

Well DP I could almost agree with you if it wasn't for the fact that there's a very good chance the brake drum will have to be repaired or replaced simply because of the wear caused by the clutch discs on the lugs. And it's hard to believe that kind of catastrophic failure can occur with out doing some damage to the other drums in the transmission.

Also, to be this close to the magneto and not check and recharge the magnets and really do a good inspection on the coils would be foolish. And of course that's going to involve balancing all components.

There's also a question of the clutch discs themselves. And let's not forget the bands.

Then to do all that to the transmission and not check the end play in the crankshaft, consider replacing the oil tube with a larger inlet funnel wouldn't be wise. As far as the engine itself I can agree with you. Although to be this far and not pull the head and clean the carbon off the tops of the pistons and valves doesn't seem like a good idea. At this point at least do a good looksee at the cylinder walls and valve seats. And it wouldn't be a bad idea to pull the rod and main caps and platigage the clearances on the crank. Then when he puts everything back together he'll have a new set of gaskets and eliminate the chances for oil leaks.

And there might be other things to be done that escape me now. But my point is, he can do a lot of low cost inspection and save himself some grief later. JMHO

[jim galli]

Wishing for more back story on this car, and it may be forthcoming, once some of the family members that are angry that it was sold have had some time to feel better about it.

The story I got is that mid to later 1960's, as 14 and 15 year olds, they worked on this car, and when school started, they dropped the project and never returned to it. Then it sat, for almost 50 years. How long was it inop before given to kids to monkey with? Anyone's guess.

If the drum was badly cracked, and a kid was trying to loosen up the bands, with a hammer, I can see a drum going to pieces pretty easily. May not have happened during operation.

Last night I put some top oil on the pistons through the plug holes, and squirted the exposed parts to the valve stems through the intake and exhaust ports, jacked up the rear tire, and turned it over a few times.

Not much to learn there. It seems willing. 13,000 miles showing on the old SW clock. Things seem tight enough to make that sort of believable. Or maybe I'm a born optimist. Probably. This I do know, though, if I walk into the hospital and ask the doc's to find something wrong with me, I might not get out of there alive.

First order of biz though is new garage doors, major clean up, and get this old girl inside.

[[email protected]]

You're an optimist. But beware those drums brake very easy. A high percentage of what gets pulled out of used tranny's are cracked. I'd be very surprised if you don't replace the brake drum too be wise the clutch disks will have the lugs chewed up pretty bad.

[MrModelT]

Reverse drums are notorious for cracking too...the one in my replacement trans was. I went to a friend that has a huge stash of T goodies to find another good one. I think we went through at least 10 or 12 transmissions before we found a good one. The good one turned out to be a Canadian built trans, which I have been told by a few, were better then the American built drums.

When compared, the American drums looked a little rough on the clean up around the spokes to the hub....it looks like they broke them out of the molds, broke off the flashing and did minimal clean-up. These rough edges seem to spawn cracks easily. The Canadian built drums were finished far nicer with nice casting work and clean up...not presenting any rough edges for cracks to form.

Just my observation and $.02

[[email protected]]

That's actually a very good observation. Sharp inside edges that aren't rounded after casting will cause the stresses in the material to crack the parts to relieve the internal stresses. When castings come out of the molds and cool to quickly they're liable to build up a lot of internal stress. Cracks are propagated from the sharp edges when the castings cool. And keep in mind henry was scratching the surface when it comes to
Metallurgy. And our model T's are what he experimented on.

[dumb person]

Diff washers, those might need looking at as well. i think i have some old ones somewhere but they are blistering and bubbling, age does it to them i hear. Somebody probably suggested it already though

[yachtsmanbill]

The single lever and upside down steering wheel threw me... 1908 Brush with a 2002 Australian Shephard guarding that pinic basket!

On another note, Ill agree with Jack... Pick up a used motor and get it running. You may fall in love with driving the T or file for a divorce LOL... I just noticed also that one of the clutch release fingers is out of position... there may be more there than meets the eye...

I know Ive posted lots of pics, but this shows the basket case speedster as it was rolled off the trailer here last August, and finally after the first spin around the block 2 days ago.
The thing is once you open ANY of it up, expect the worst. I was gonna try and make it run in red, then pulled the bottom pan and found 10 lbs of mice turds. That was it! It went from a radiator cap to stripped out rear wheel hub nuts and all points in between. ws

[Jack Innes]

[QUOTE=yachtsmanbill;423584]The single lever and upside down steering wheel threw me... 1908 Brush with a 2002 Australian Shephard guarding that pinic basket!

BINGO! Well almost, it is a 1908 Brush but the dog is a 2004 (insane) Smooth Haired Fox Terrier. Ozzie, the Austrailian Shepherd is not in any of the pictures??? Kind of spooky Bill.

More than the steering wheel is upside down, the engine turns backwards, the levers need to be down to start & you push the hand lever forward to back up. But it works amazingly well for a 1 cylinder car.

[MrModelT]

A very good friend has a 1909 Brush Runabout.... Its titled as an '09, but I think it is actually a 1911 or '12.

The little Brush motor is the wildest thing. It lost a rod bearing last summer and we are just getting ready to reassemble and install the rebuilt motor.

..Fun as heck to drive! Slow....but fun.







Sorry....didn't mean to hijack

[yachtsmanbill]

Be REAL Mr.T !! There aint no such thing as hijacking here unless yer a lesbian terrorist stealing a Model T truck to plant a bomb with a coil activated mechanism... ws

[Jack Innes]

[QUOTE=MrModelT;423668]A very good friend has a 1909 Brush Runabout.... Its titled as an '09, but I think it is actually a 1911 or '12.

The little Brush motor is the wildest thing. It lost a rod bearing last summer and we are just getting ready to reassemble and install the rebuilt motor.

Was the counter rotating balance gear still under the round black plate on the engine? Most are removed to eliminate a lot of problems. The engine will run just fine without it.

This car must be for cross country use with 2 large gas tanks! You are correct on the fun level in driving these.