The Ford Barn

B-O-B · 03-06-2013, 08:26 PM

Just heard on the evening news that Roy Brown designer of the Edsel passed away today @ 96.
My condolences to his family.

hoss73ford · 03-06-2013, 09:22 PM

The Edsel failure wasn't Roy's or Ford's fault. When it was said that 'its aim was right but the target moved" was correct. Had it been introduced a year earlier or several years later it may have been a successful selling car. My uncles remembers Sept 4, 1957 when it was first introduced and the economy was starting to slide into a recession by then.

parklane · 03-06-2013, 11:07 PM

Well, the 58 Edsel was a unique car, and way ahead of its time IMHO. Wouldn't mind having a Ranger 2door hardtop or 2 door wagon.

teejay99 · 03-06-2013, 11:23 PM

Until now I had never heard of Roy Brown or the Edsel connection . As a young teen I remember looking forward to the "space age" styles that prevailed for several years . I didn't particularly like the Edsel , but couldn't really understand why it was the butt of so many jokes back then . I thought there were far uglier styles out there , particularly some of the Chrysler products . I think I felt that the Edsel was an interesting effort ( especially the horse collar grill ) that just didn't catch on .

Ford blue blood · 03-07-2013, 08:30 AM

In addition to the "UNIQUE" styling, unique color combinations, the oncoming recession and Q/A issues (assembled on Ford production lines) it just didn't hit the public. They were well ahead of their time, they offered options that are now standard equipment now for the most part. Low oil warning, light out warning, door ajar warning, excessive speed warning and a couple more that escape me at the moment.

LOWRIDER · 03-07-2013, 09:28 AM

Sponsored Links (Register now to hide all advertisements)

I'm always amused when I hear people berate the Edsel as being a "lemon" or poor quality. GM didn't get the same press over the Toronado.

Oldmics · 03-07-2013, 01:15 PM

Mine

Oldmics

darrell · 03-07-2013, 04:16 PM

the ranger and pacer were just an ugly ford nothing special about them.the two based on the merc were a little different.some early ones based on the ford had a coluum shift.

Ford blue blood · 03-07-2013, 06:30 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by darrell

the ranger and pacer were just an ugly ford nothing special about them

You know not of what you speak....

Frankenstein57 · 03-07-2013, 07:13 PM

Oldmics, that is one fine wagon!

Oldmics · 03-07-2013, 08:38 PM

Thanks Frankie

Its a nice 10 footer and not a natural blond

Oldmics

parklane · 03-07-2013, 09:14 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Oldmics

Mine

Oldmics

Very nice. The 2 door wagon was a very low production.

teejay99 · 03-08-2013, 07:36 PM

I decided to do a little research as to the rationale behind the Edsel ....looks like it took quite a while for ideas to make it to production ( for various reasons ) . Some years after the Edsel demise , I wondered who they were trying to target . Up here there was a distinct Ford market as well as a solid Mercury market . In Canada we also had the Monarch ( like a Merc ) and the Meteor ( like a Ford ) ...those two additional cars having mostly trim variations from their look-alikes . Where would the Edsel fit , especially up here ? It didn't .

Oldmics · 03-09-2013, 08:44 AM

The Edsel targeted marketing group was to transition buyers upwards from a Ford to the Edsel and eventually upwards to a Mercury.

Ford at the time felt there was a need for a vehicle that was not quite a Mercury in the terms of pricing and features.So the Edsel was born to capture that segment of the market.

Along with the real reason of the Edsel"s demise which was the financal recession of 1958,Edsel cars heavely loaded with such new options (such as seat belts) and other elaborate gizmos would far exceed a base priced Mercury.

Quite a mark in history.

Oldmics

teejay99 · 03-09-2013, 07:32 PM

Hindsight is 20-20 but it looks like the big shots had some infighting and blew it . I might be thinking in 2013 dollars , but the walk between the Ford and the Merc didn't seem to be a big deal back then .....why market an in between car ?

T

Motorhead6 · 03-10-2013, 07:37 AM

Roy Brown went forward to prove to the automotive world that he was a great automobile stylist. He was given credit for the English Ford Cortina which was one of the reasons that Ford of Europe was able to help keep Ford afloat during the lean years of Lee Iococoa.

"Out of the dust, the Phoenix rose." When the Edsel proved to be such a colossal failure, Ford got serious about customer survey. What they discovered was that what the public wanted was a car that came to be known as Mustang. Ironically one of the most successful cars even to this day was a direct result of the Edsel fiasco.

Many people attribute the Mustang to Lee Iococoa. This was largely due to the fact that Lee himself was eager to take the credit for it. Truth is that his part of the program was to be smart enough to approve the car that a couple of lead engineers at Ford had prototyped. This is according to the book "Ford, The Man And The Machine".

We all know the stories of Robert McNamara's great distaste for the Edsel and all of the negativity that surrounded the Edsel. I have a '58 Ranger. Any time I drive it, I get numerous honks and stares and compliments abound. Just my opinion, but I always thought the '58 was one of the most beautiful cars ever built. Apparently many people agree. The '59s and '60s were just another Ford.

teejay99 · 03-10-2013, 08:45 AM

Interesting connection between the failed Edsel and the Mustang . I realized long ago that Lee Iacocca wasn't the only important person behind the Mustang but I guess they needed a "face" and he gladly played that roll to the hilt .
I was grabbed by the Mustang right away and it was my first new car in '68 . Wish I still had it !

T

Motorhead6 · 03-11-2013, 10:17 AM

[QUOTE=teejay99;Where would the Edsel fit , especially up here ? (in Canada) It didn't .[/QUOTE]

The Mercury was to be up-scaled (think of the '59 and later Mercs) and the Edsel was to fit in between the Ford and Merc. Trouble was that McNamara tried to sabatage the Edsel by growing the '57 and later Ford and T-Bird. He actually made the comment to an auto industry reporter when asked about his plans for the Edsel that he intended to "kill it as soon as possible". This was on the night of media introduction in 1957.

Some of the Edsel inovations in addition to those enumerated above were self adjusting brakes, self lubricating chasis, lots of HP (one of the complaints was that it had too much). The small engine had 400 Ft/Lbs of torque and the large one had 475. Look at today's hot rods and see how rarely they offer that kind of torque. The hot rod Hemi has something like 365 Ft/lbs!!! Of course most every option that you can imagine on today's cars were available in 1958!!

SSsssteamer · 03-12-2013, 10:44 PM

One thing about the Edsel that I never quite understood is that: When they announced the Edsel was being discontinued, "everyone that had purchased an Edsel during the preceeding years all got refunds because Ford said that their Edsel customers had been overcharged". I don't think that in today's business world that a refund would be made on those same grounds. What do you think?

Oldmics · 03-12-2013, 11:19 PM

I have never heard about a refund situation.

There was a certificate offered in the amount of $300.00 as an enticement for Edsel owners to stay loyal to Ford after the Edsel"s demise.
This certificate could be redeemed upon the purchase of a new Ford vehicle.

Heres a link showing the certificate and associated letter along with a better explanation of the offering.

http://www.utterpower.com/fords-allo...-edsel-owners/

Oldmics

03-06-2013, 08:26 PM	#1
B-O-B Senior Member Join Date: May 2010 Location: Ft Mohave,Az Posts: 1,987	sad day today Just heard on the evening news that Roy Brown designer of the Edsel passed away today @ 96. My condolences to his family.

03-06-2013, 09:22 PM	#2
hoss73ford Senior Member Join Date: Jul 2010 Posts: 142	Re: sad day today The Edsel failure wasn't Roy's or Ford's fault. When it was said that 'its aim was right but the target moved" was correct. Had it been introduced a year earlier or several years later it may have been a successful selling car. My uncles remembers Sept 4, 1957 when it was first introduced and the economy was starting to slide into a recession by then.

03-06-2013, 11:07 PM	#3
parklane Senior Member Join Date: May 2010 Location: St.Thomas, ON Canada Posts: 598	Re: sad day today Well, the 58 Edsel was a unique car, and way ahead of its time IMHO. Wouldn't mind having a Ranger 2door hardtop or 2 door wagon. __________________ If brains were wire, some couldn't short circuit a firefly

03-06-2013, 11:23 PM	#4
teejay99 Member Join Date: Sep 2012 Location: belle river ontario Posts: 56	Re: sad day today Until now I had never heard of Roy Brown or the Edsel connection . As a young teen I remember looking forward to the "space age" styles that prevailed for several years . I didn't particularly like the Edsel , but couldn't really understand why it was the butt of so many jokes back then . I thought there were far uglier styles out there , particularly some of the Chrysler products . I think I felt that the Edsel was an interesting effort ( especially the horse collar grill ) that just didn't catch on .

03-07-2013, 09:28 AM	#6
LOWRIDER Senior Member Join Date: May 2010 Location: Kingman Az. 86409 Posts: 419	Re: sad day today Sponsored Links (Register now to hide all advertisements) I'm always amused when I hear people berate the Edsel as being a "lemon" or poor quality. GM didn't get the same press over the Toronado. __________________ Dan Kingman Az. 86409

03-07-2013, 04:16 PM	#8
darrell Senior Member Join Date: Dec 2010 Location: p.e.i. Posts: 1,060	Re: sad day today the ranger and pacer were just an ugly ford nothing special about them.the two based on the merc were a little different.some early ones based on the ford had a coluum shift.

03-07-2013, 07:13 PM	#10
Frankenstein57 Member Join Date: Jan 2012 Location: Waukesha,Wisconsin Posts: 85	Re: sad day today Oldmics, that is one fine wagon!

03-07-2013, 08:38 PM	#11
Oldmics BANNED Join Date: Jul 2010 Location: Balto.Md Posts: 382	Re: sad day today Thanks Frankie Its a nice 10 footer and not a natural blond Oldmics

03-08-2013, 07:36 PM	#13
teejay99 Member Join Date: Sep 2012 Location: belle river ontario Posts: 56	Re: sad day today I decided to do a little research as to the rationale behind the Edsel ....looks like it took quite a while for ideas to make it to production ( for various reasons ) . Some years after the Edsel demise , I wondered who they were trying to target . Up here there was a distinct Ford market as well as a solid Mercury market . In Canada we also had the Monarch ( like a Merc ) and the Meteor ( like a Ford ) ...those two additional cars having mostly trim variations from their look-alikes . Where would the Edsel fit , especially up here ? It didn't .

03-09-2013, 08:44 AM	#14
Oldmics BANNED Join Date: Jul 2010 Location: Balto.Md Posts: 382	Re: sad day today The Edsel targeted marketing group was to transition buyers upwards from a Ford to the Edsel and eventually upwards to a Mercury. Ford at the time felt there was a need for a vehicle that was not quite a Mercury in the terms of pricing and features.So the Edsel was born to capture that segment of the market. Along with the real reason of the Edsel"s demise which was the financal recession of 1958,Edsel cars heavely loaded with such new options (such as seat belts) and other elaborate gizmos would far exceed a base priced Mercury. Quite a mark in history. Oldmics

03-09-2013, 07:32 PM	#15
teejay99 Member Join Date: Sep 2012 Location: belle river ontario Posts: 56	Re: sad day today Hindsight is 20-20 but it looks like the big shots had some infighting and blew it . I might be thinking in 2013 dollars , but the walk between the Ford and the Merc didn't seem to be a big deal back then .....why market an in between car ? T

03-10-2013, 07:37 AM	#16
Motorhead6 Senior Member Join Date: Jul 2012 Location: Orange Park, Fl Posts: 406	Re: sad day today Roy Brown went forward to prove to the automotive world that he was a great automobile stylist. He was given credit for the English Ford Cortina which was one of the reasons that Ford of Europe was able to help keep Ford afloat during the lean years of Lee Iococoa. "Out of the dust, the Phoenix rose." When the Edsel proved to be such a colossal failure, Ford got serious about customer survey. What they discovered was that what the public wanted was a car that came to be known as Mustang. Ironically one of the most successful cars even to this day was a direct result of the Edsel fiasco. Many people attribute the Mustang to Lee Iococoa. This was largely due to the fact that Lee himself was eager to take the credit for it. Truth is that his part of the program was to be smart enough to approve the car that a couple of lead engineers at Ford had prototyped. This is according to the book "Ford, The Man And The Machine". We all know the stories of Robert McNamara's great distaste for the Edsel and all of the negativity that surrounded the Edsel. I have a '58 Ranger. Any time I drive it, I get numerous honks and stares and compliments abound. Just my opinion, but I always thought the '58 was one of the most beautiful cars ever built. Apparently many people agree. The '59s and '60s were just another Ford.

03-10-2013, 08:45 AM	#17
teejay99 Member Join Date: Sep 2012 Location: belle river ontario Posts: 56	Re: sad day today Interesting connection between the failed Edsel and the Mustang . I realized long ago that Lee Iacocca wasn't the only important person behind the Mustang but I guess they needed a "face" and he gladly played that roll to the hilt . I was grabbed by the Mustang right away and it was my first new car in '68 . Wish I still had it ! T

03-11-2013, 10:17 AM	#18
Motorhead6 Senior Member Join Date: Jul 2012 Location: Orange Park, Fl Posts: 406	Re: sad day today [QUOTE=teejay99;Where would the Edsel fit , especially up here ? (in Canada) It didn't .[/QUOTE] The Mercury was to be up-scaled (think of the '59 and later Mercs) and the Edsel was to fit in between the Ford and Merc. Trouble was that McNamara tried to sabatage the Edsel by growing the '57 and later Ford and T-Bird. He actually made the comment to an auto industry reporter when asked about his plans for the Edsel that he intended to "kill it as soon as possible". This was on the night of media introduction in 1957. Some of the Edsel inovations in addition to those enumerated above were self adjusting brakes, self lubricating chasis, lots of HP (one of the complaints was that it had too much). The small engine had 400 Ft/Lbs of torque and the large one had 475. Look at today's hot rods and see how rarely they offer that kind of torque. The hot rod Hemi has something like 365 Ft/lbs!!! Of course most every option that you can imagine on today's cars were available in 1958!!

03-12-2013, 10:44 PM	#19
SSsssteamer Senior Member Join Date: Nov 2010 Location: Sedro-Woolley, WA Posts: 1,023	Re: sad day today One thing about the Edsel that I never quite understood is that: When they announced the Edsel was being discontinued, "everyone that had purchased an Edsel during the preceeding years all got refunds because Ford said that their Edsel customers had been overcharged". I don't think that in today's business world that a refund would be made on those same grounds. What do you think?

03-12-2013, 11:19 PM	#20
Oldmics BANNED Join Date: Jul 2010 Location: Balto.Md Posts: 382	Re: sad day today I have never heard about a refund situation. There was a certificate offered in the amount of $300.00 as an enticement for Edsel owners to stay loyal to Ford after the Edsel"s demise. This certificate could be redeemed upon the purchase of a new Ford vehicle. Heres a link showing the certificate and associated letter along with a better explanation of the offering. http://www.utterpower.com/fords-allo...-edsel-owners/ Oldmics