The Ford Barn

Kentf1003 · 11-02-2010, 08:50 PM

I have a new 40 Ford replacement tank from "Tanks." It's even made in the USA. My only problem to resolve now is how to use my new (Macs) 6v - 6 hole sending unit. The new tank has a smaller sending unit outlet and only 5 threaded holes. I'm sure I'm not the first to face the situation. How do Barners dance to that tune? Thanks.

19Fordy · 11-02-2010, 09:03 PM

I drilled and retapped the "TANKS" tank to accomodate the original sending unit.
But you can also buy an adapter plate. http://www.speedwaymotors.com/1935-1...pter,5865.html But you could also make your own.

34flathead · 11-02-2010, 09:30 PM

i took my new sending unit with 6 holes and marked the plate with the 5 hole gasket, drilled it, after a few fitment adjustments it bolted down fine.
rich

Lawson Cox · 11-02-2010, 10:43 PM

Don't you wish these folks who "reproduce" old parts would make them exact where everything would fit. P_ _ _ _ _ me off big time.

TJ · 11-03-2010, 09:13 AM

You can buy a sending unit from Yogi's that will fit the new tank and work with your 40 gauge.

19Fordy · 11-03-2010, 10:00 AM

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Quote:

Originally Posted by TJ

You can buy a sending unit from Yogi's that will fit the new tank and work with your 40 gauge.

What sending unit? Are you sure it will really work with the stock gauge? I ask because the stock 40 gauge works on heating a bi-metallic strip that has to work in conjunction with the stock sending unit. Have you used it?
Thanks, JIM

rotorwrench · 11-03-2010, 11:36 AM

Researching the Datcon sender that Yogi's sells calls out a 73-10 Ohm unit. According to the available information that is 73 Ohms empty and 10 Ohms full. I have never experimented with a Ford gauge to see how it would work with a resistance unit. In theory it will but what resistance level will bend the strip to different levels is an unknown to me. Accuracy would also be in question. Considering all else that's available, it might be worth a try.

Kerby

Don · 11-03-2010, 02:31 PM

dont know about a 40 but my 36 has a set on points and a restior of some kind in the sending unit. still dont know how it works. ive asked before. DP I dont see a a moving ohms device could work.

19Fordy · 11-03-2010, 03:35 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Don

dont know about a 40 but my 36 has a set on points and a restior of some kind in the sending unit. still dont know how it works. ive asked before. DP I dont see a a moving ohms device could work.

Blown49 explains how sending unit works in this thread.49-51 Merc operate the same as the early Ford sending units using a bimetallic strip that heats up and cools off in conjunction with the stock gauge.
https://www.fordbarn.com/forum/showth...k+sending+unit

rotorwrench · 11-03-2010, 07:25 PM

Rather than a variable resistance device that is more common now, they used a variable current device. It works more similar to a voltage regulator. It was a good reliable system but no one makes any reproductions of it so now we have to make due with what ever will work, if it will work.

gmc1941 · 11-03-2010, 07:42 PM

Did you purchase a tank with the same amount of gallons? If you use the adapted plate you will have to make a small allowance for the increase in height. When your drilling the holes make sure the position of the sending is correct. Good Luck Gordon

Flat Ernie · 11-03-2010, 09:35 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by 19Fordy

What sending unit? Are you sure it will really work with the stock gauge? I ask because the stock 40 gauge works on heating a bi-metallic strip that has to work in conjunction with the stock sending unit. Have you used it?
Thanks, JIM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Don

dont know about a 40 but my 36 has a set on points and a restior of some kind in the sending unit. still dont know how it works. ive asked before. DP I dont see a a moving ohms device could work.

Quote:

Originally Posted by rotorwrench

Rather than a variable resistance device that is more common now, they used a variable current device. It works more similar to a voltage regulator. It was a good reliable system but no one makes any reproductions of it so now we have to make due with what ever will work, if it will work.

A variable resistance unit WILL work with the original gauge. I don't remember the resistance range that works (70-140 springs to mind, but...). What you're doing is averaging the current through the circuit instead of full-on, full-off with the original chopper circuit.

All of my 12V converted cars have 6V CVRs running the gauges and all have modern sending units from Mac's (variable resistance) and all are very accurate and reliable. I'm too tired to explain it tonight, but there were several threads on the old barn where I explained how/why it worked...

19Fordy · 11-04-2010, 08:36 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Flat Ernie

A variable resistance unit WILL work with the original gauge. I don't remember the resistance range that works (70-140 springs to mind, but...). What you're doing is averaging the current through the circuit instead of full-on, full-off with the original chopper circuit.

All of my 12V converted cars have 6V CVRs running the gauges and all have modern sending units from Mac's (variable resistance) and all are very accurate and reliable. I'm too tired to explain it tonight, but there were several threads on the old barn where I explained how/why it worked...

Thanks Ernie,
When you get a chance please post the info on " where I explained how/why it worked" regarding the gas gauge and sending unit. Your tech stuff is always excellent and much appreciated by all. Your VOLT guage info is "golden."Thanks, JIM

FL&WVMIKE · 11-04-2010, 10:35 AM

Lawson Cox .......................
These vendors that are reproducing these parts are making them for the street rodders, who don't want to use the old original senders, etc. Perhaps, they buy more of the tanks than the restorers.
Of course, they will sell you an adapter plate.
MIKE

Flat Ernie · 11-04-2010, 03:31 PM

I did several searches of the archives, but no combination of search terms would produce the old threads...bummer.

I'll try to write it all down again...short version is the bi-metallic strips bend based on heat generated by current. The stock stuff "regulates" the current by going on-off-on-off with a full 6volts. The variable resistance units work by changing the resistance which changes the overall current. So instead of "averaging" 6V & 0V by opening/closing a specific number of times in a second, the variable resistance senders just lower the voltage.

Kentf1003 · 11-04-2010, 08:46 PM

The sendor for old Fords, advertised by YOGI (made in Budapest, Hungary) appears to swing from a round shaft at the bottom of the tank, instead of swinging from the top like the old Fords. (Their resistor sits at the bottom of the tank and the float/arm extends out and up.) You have to shorten the round shaft to fit the height of your tank, they say (ranges from 6-24 inches). They also say that since fuel tank senders only read resistance to ground, theirs work on all 6-24 volt systems, positive or negative. Their resistance is 73 ohms on empty and 10 ohms on full. For what it's worth.

ajohn · 11-04-2010, 09:23 PM

On my 49 Ford pickup,I ordered Dolphin guages and sending unit.Same problem;six holes v/s 5 holes.They sold me an adapter ring that was very pricey and leaked between the adapter and the tank,making one Hell of a gas smell in the cab. James

Lawson Cox · 11-05-2010, 09:26 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by FL&WVMIKE

Lawson Cox .......................
These vendors that are reproducing these parts are making them for the street rodders, who don't want to use the old original senders, etc. Perhaps, they buy more of the tanks than the restorers.
Of course, they will sell you an adapter plate.
MIKE

Then they should not advertise that it works with original style gauges.

Flat Ernie · 11-05-2010, 01:08 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Lawson Cox

Then they should not advertise that it works with original style gauges.

But they can work with original gauges...if the resistance range is correct. I cannot remember that range and none of my senders are out of the tank available for me to test at the moment.

Mr.34 · 11-05-2010, 08:18 PM

'Tanks' specializes in street rod use. They are one of the best available and I have one in poly which I love as they have a anti 'slosh' baffle and a lot of extra gas capacity. I would call Tanks first. They are very helpful and will tell you the easist sollution.

11-02-2010, 08:50 PM	#1
Kentf1003 Senior Member Join Date: May 2010 Posts: 138	fuel sending unit I have a new 40 Ford replacement tank from "Tanks." It's even made in the USA. My only problem to resolve now is how to use my new (Macs) 6v - 6 hole sending unit. The new tank has a smaller sending unit outlet and only 5 threaded holes. I'm sure I'm not the first to face the situation. How do Barners dance to that tune? Thanks.

11-02-2010, 09:03 PM	#2
19Fordy Senior Member Join Date: May 2010 Location: Coral Springs FL Posts: 10,942	Re: fuel sending unit I drilled and retapped the "TANKS" tank to accomodate the original sending unit. But you can also buy an adapter plate. http://www.speedwaymotors.com/1935-1...pter,5865.html But you could also make your own.

11-02-2010, 09:30 PM	#3
34flathead Senior Member Join Date: May 2010 Location: norcal Posts: 173	Re: fuel sending unit i took my new sending unit with 6 holes and marked the plate with the 5 hole gasket, drilled it, after a few fitment adjustments it bolted down fine. rich

11-02-2010, 10:43 PM	#4
Lawson Cox Senior Member Join Date: May 2010 Location: Above the gnat line in Georgia Posts: 7,009	Re: fuel sending unit Don't you wish these folks who "reproduce" old parts would make them exact where everything would fit. P_ _ _ _ _ me off big time.

11-03-2010, 09:13 AM	#5
TJ Senior Member Join Date: May 2010 Location: Napa,California Posts: 6,037	Re: fuel sending unit You can buy a sending unit from Yogi's that will fit the new tank and work with your 40 gauge.

11-03-2010, 11:36 AM	#7
rotorwrench Senior Member Join Date: Jun 2010 Location: San Antonio, Texas Posts: 16,431	Re: fuel sending unit Researching the Datcon sender that Yogi's sells calls out a 73-10 Ohm unit. According to the available information that is 73 Ohms empty and 10 Ohms full. I have never experimented with a Ford gauge to see how it would work with a resistance unit. In theory it will but what resistance level will bend the strip to different levels is an unknown to me. Accuracy would also be in question. Considering all else that's available, it might be worth a try. Kerby

11-03-2010, 02:31 PM	#8
Don Senior Member Join Date: May 2010 Location: Ashland KY Posts: 1,159	Re: fuel sending unit dont know about a 40 but my 36 has a set on points and a restior of some kind in the sending unit. still dont know how it works. ive asked before. DP I dont see a a moving ohms device could work. __________________ DON P

11-03-2010, 07:25 PM	#10
rotorwrench Senior Member Join Date: Jun 2010 Location: San Antonio, Texas Posts: 16,431	Re: fuel sending unit Rather than a variable resistance device that is more common now, they used a variable current device. It works more similar to a voltage regulator. It was a good reliable system but no one makes any reproductions of it so now we have to make due with what ever will work, if it will work.

11-03-2010, 07:42 PM	#11
gmc1941 Senior Member Join Date: Jun 2010 Location: Palatine, Il Posts: 486	Re: fuel sending unit Did you purchase a tank with the same amount of gallons? If you use the adapted plate you will have to make a small allowance for the increase in height. When your drilling the holes make sure the position of the sending is correct. Good Luck Gordon __________________ 1939 Fordor Deluxe 1939 Ford Coupe Std 1940 Ford pickup Nothing in life is to be feared; it is only to be understood.

11-04-2010, 10:35 AM	#14
FL&WVMIKE Senior Member Join Date: May 2010 Location: Daytona Beach, Fl & Spencer, W. Va, Posts: 4,442	Re: fuel sending unit Lawson Cox ....................... These vendors that are reproducing these parts are making them for the street rodders, who don't want to use the old original senders, etc. Perhaps, they buy more of the tanks than the restorers. Of course, they will sell you an adapter plate. MIKE

11-04-2010, 03:31 PM	#15
Flat Ernie Senior Member Join Date: May 2010 Location: 74FL Posts: 323	Re: fuel sending unit I did several searches of the archives, but no combination of search terms would produce the old threads...bummer. I'll try to write it all down again...short version is the bi-metallic strips bend based on heat generated by current. The stock stuff "regulates" the current by going on-off-on-off with a full 6volts. The variable resistance units work by changing the resistance which changes the overall current. So instead of "averaging" 6V & 0V by opening/closing a specific number of times in a second, the variable resistance senders just lower the voltage. __________________ Daddy always said, "If yer gonna be dumb, you gotta be tough" and I'm one tough sumbitch! T5 Tech

11-04-2010, 08:46 PM	#16
Kentf1003 Senior Member Join Date: May 2010 Posts: 138	Re: fuel sending unit The sendor for old Fords, advertised by YOGI (made in Budapest, Hungary) appears to swing from a round shaft at the bottom of the tank, instead of swinging from the top like the old Fords. (Their resistor sits at the bottom of the tank and the float/arm extends out and up.) You have to shorten the round shaft to fit the height of your tank, they say (ranges from 6-24 inches). They also say that since fuel tank senders only read resistance to ground, theirs work on all 6-24 volt systems, positive or negative. Their resistance is 73 ohms on empty and 10 ohms on full. For what it's worth.

11-04-2010, 09:23 PM	#17
ajohn Senior Member Join Date: May 2010 Location: Tyler,TX Posts: 462	Re: fuel sending unit On my 49 Ford pickup,I ordered Dolphin guages and sending unit.Same problem;six holes v/s 5 holes.They sold me an adapter ring that was very pricey and leaked between the adapter and the tank,making one Hell of a gas smell in the cab. James

11-05-2010, 08:18 PM	#20
Mr.34 Member Join Date: May 2010 Location: Metro Minnesota Posts: 48	Re: fuel sending unit 'Tanks' specializes in street rod use. They are one of the best available and I have one in poly which I love as they have a anti 'slosh' baffle and a lot of extra gas capacity. I would call Tanks first. They are very helpful and will tell you the easist sollution.