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Old 02-14-2021, 03:30 AM   #1
hardtimes
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Default Stud removal; broken stud process Q.

Ok, should have asked...before broke head stud.

What is the BEST last resort effort that you’ve used to extract head studs that will not loosen... short of snapping the stud.

Sickening sound. I’ve tried everything that I know...which isn’t much.

How does torch heat on stud sound.... good/bad or don’t do?

I’m guessing that there are better/ best grades of EZ OUTS. ANYONE KNOW EZ out info and whether this is bad idea to use ?
Snapped drill in broken stud in blk. Quit to refocus. Seven more to address !!!

Thanks for any positive input.
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Old 02-14-2021, 05:55 AM   #2
Lawrie
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Default Re: Stud removal; broken stud process Q.

I have just removed 96 studs from two V8 engines, all came out with no drama.
Step one, cut off all studs about 3/4 inch up from block with a 4 in angle grinder with a cutoff wheel,
step two, get a pile of old head nuts and drill them out to 7/16ths.
step three, slip the drilled out nuts over the cut off studs,
step four, big weld the nuts onto the cutoff studs.
Step five, when they have cooled use a rattle gun and rattle them out.
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Old 02-14-2021, 05:58 AM   #3
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Default Re: Stud removal; broken stud process Q.

after lubricating well with PB blaster, I use a pipe wrench gently in both directions, just to work it loose. Have never had a problem.


regarding the broken drill bit in the stud........... I am assuming you will need to lubricate well and get the bit out first. chisel? heat? wax?
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Old 02-14-2021, 07:43 AM   #4
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Default Re: Stud removal; broken stud process Q.

The weld a nut to the stud is the best method even if the stud is broken off flush with the block. The heat from welding on the stud and a bit of penetrating lubricant will usually get the job done to loosen the stud. The use of an EZ out frequently ends up in disaster. If the stud is too frozen to come out without breaking, most likely the EZ out will break off also. The broken EZ out is much harder to remove as it is a very hard steel that will resist most any normal attempt to be drilled out.
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Old 02-14-2021, 07:50 AM   #5
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Default Re: Stud removal; broken stud process Q.

I would try this first on a scrap block. In shop class in high school I was taught that a cutting torch would blow out a steel stud from a cast iron block. The torch melts and blows out the stud without damaging the threads in the block. The torch melts the stud by using the oxygen to burn the steel but the cast iron is not touched. Again, I would try this first on a scrap block. The stud does not have to be stuck in the scrap block, just inserted. By the way, that would have been in 1962.
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Old 02-14-2021, 09:05 AM   #6
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Default Re: Stud removal; broken stud process Q.

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It appears to me that the first question is: the stud in question, it is a PRESS IN stud or a SCREW IN stud? The methods presented should work with pressed in studs but screw in ones are a different thing, of course. What size is the stud? What size is the drill bit broken off in the stud (shudder at that thought)? How far into the stud did the bit get before snapping? Is any part of the stud remaining above the surface it is stuck in? A couple of photos might be helpful here. The broken drill bit is the bad part. I saw a machine shop one time solve the problem by using a milling machine and a hardened end mill of the proper size drill down to get past a broken drill bit in a screw in stud. Then they used the proper sized tap drill and retapped and rethreaded the hole. Came out perfectly. Easy when you have the right tools. By the way, that ruined the end mill bit. LOL Hate to say it, but the bit breaks when too much pressure was used or you accidentally bent the bit. They are hardened and not amenable to lateral forces at all. They do not bend, they snap. You may end up at a machine shop after all is said and done. A couple of photos might help sir some thoughts. Wish I could be of more help.

Last edited by Superhart; 02-14-2021 at 09:14 AM.
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Old 02-14-2021, 09:44 AM   #7
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Default Re: Stud removal; broken stud process Q.

Snapped off drill bit in a broken stud ain't good, good that you now have asked for help! You need to find a welder / shop who can remove the broken stud without doing more damage. A washer on the block and a nut weld to the remaining stud trick is what is needed. Lawrie's method of removing the remaining studs sounds like a great way of removing the rest of the studs!!! The high intensity heat will break the rust bond and allow the removal of the studs.

When I was working in the airlines we had to remove steel wear strips from aluminum wheels. The steel counter sunk screws couldn't be removed some times and we would have a welder weld 2 towering tits on the screw heads so we could grab the towering tits with pliers a then turn the screws out. This method always work in removing this stuck screws ALWAYS !
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Old 02-14-2021, 09:50 AM   #8
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Default Re: Stud removal; broken stud process Q.

The easiest way I have found is to use tig welder to weld washer to flush remains, it won't care about the broke off but, then after the washer is welded weld a nut to the washer
Mig welder can work, but not as good, with that metal is getting added, the more metal, the more heat so I build a blob, sometimes through a hole in a piece of copper so nothing sticks to the base metal
Blowing it out with the torch can work good, but if it goes wrong it can harden the thread area so a tap won't touch the threads

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Old 02-14-2021, 01:17 PM   #9
Terry Burtz, Calif
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Default Re: Stud removal; broken stud process Q.

Take it to a specialist with a plunge EDM (Electrical Discharge Machining).

One service near you is: http://brokentap.com/services/
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Old 02-14-2021, 07:36 PM   #10
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Default Re: Stud removal; broken stud process Q.

Do people use the left hand drill bits on broken studs? These are used so that the drill torque will tend to back out the stud instead of driving it further in.

On an exhaust manifold, I drilled out the broken stud with an oversize drill and retreaded for a helical coil insert. Worked great.

A guide came with my car that uses the head to guide the drill bit. The guide is a close fit in the bolt hole in the head and the drill bit is a close fit in the guide.

There are drill bits that are designed to drill drill bits. Very hard and expensive. See https://www.mcmaster.com/drill-bits/...ardened-steel/
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Forget the brakes, they really don't work.
The clutch always sticks, and starts with a jerk.
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Driving's a blast, a blast from the past.

Last edited by nkaminar; 02-14-2021 at 07:43 PM.
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Old 02-14-2021, 08:20 PM   #11
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Default Re: Stud removal; broken stud process Q.

Here is a good link for information on removing studs:


http://www.fordgarage.com/pages/studremoval.htm
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Old 02-14-2021, 10:25 PM   #12
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Default Re: Stud removal; broken stud process Q.

When I come across a broken stud I will center punch the broken stud and drill a shallow hole (about 1/8" deep) into the stud with a 5/32" bit. Using a short burst with a mig welder (don't have tig) I fill the hole I just drilled with weld. I let allow the weld cool just long enough for the bright red glow to fade a bit and then stack another burst weld just off center of it and again allow the color of the weld to fade a bit. I work my way around the top of the stud repeating this stacking of welds until the weld is built up above the level of the block a quarter inch or so. This allows the heat to better penetrate the broken off stud.
The block stays cool and any weld that strays onto it generally will not stick or at least makes a very weak bond with it.
Then I place a flat washer onto the stack of welds and weld it in place followed by a nut stacked on top of the washer. Fill the center of the nut with weld and allow it to cool almost to room temp. Grab it with a vice grip and try to work it off then. If your weld breaks loose from the broken stud then just give it another go. Sometimes it takes quite a few times before it finally breaks loose and comes out.
Since you have a bit broken off in yours you wouldn't be able to drill the hole first but it should work with the broken piece of bit in place.
I strip the cadmium plating off of the washer and nut before welding with a 50/50 mix of muratic acid and water. The cadmium plating makes for a messy weld.
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Old 02-15-2021, 01:45 AM   #13
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Default Re: Stud removal; broken stud process Q.

Quote:
Originally Posted by 1crosscut View Post
When I come across a broken stud I will center punch the broken stud and drill a shallow hole (about 1/8" deep) into the stud with a 5/32" bit. Using a short burst with a mig welder (don't have tig) I fill the hole I just drilled with weld. I let allow the weld cool just long enough for the bright red glow to fade a bit and then stack another burst weld just off center of it and again allow the color of the weld to fade a bit. I work my way around the top of the stud repeating this stacking of welds until the weld is built up above the level of the block a quarter inch or so. This allows the heat to better penetrate the broken off stud.
The block stays cool and any weld that strays onto it generally will not stick or at least makes a very weak bond with it.
Then I place a flat washer onto the stack of welds and weld it in place followed by a nut stacked on top of the washer. Fill the center of the nut with weld and allow it to cool almost to room temp. Grab it with a vice grip and try to work it off then. If your weld breaks loose from the broken stud then just give it another go. Sometimes it takes quite a few times before it finally breaks loose and comes out.
Since you have a bit broken off in yours you wouldn't be able to drill the hole first but it should work with the broken piece of bit in place.
I strip the cadmium plating off of the washer and nut before welding with a 50/50 mix of muratic acid and water. The cadmium plating makes for a messy weld.
Hey Dave,
I got somewhat lucky , as I worked the broken drill out of the stud
You gave good description of your method of broke stud removal , thanks !
Now I just have to buy a mig or tig, and learn to use it...lol
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Old 02-15-2021, 02:16 AM   #14
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Default Re: Stud removal; broken stud process Q.

Quote:
Originally Posted by nkaminar View Post
Here is a good link for information on removing studs:


http://www.fordgarage.com/pages/studremoval.htm
Thanks !
I forgot about Vince's site. Wonderful info.
About all a guy needs to know to be successful stud remover !
Now, who sells best Tig ... for this small job ?
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Old 02-15-2021, 02:27 AM   #15
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Default Re: Stud removal; broken stud process Q.

Quote:
Originally Posted by nkaminar View Post
Do people use the left hand drill bits on broken studs? These are used so that the drill torque will tend to back out the stud instead of driving it further in.

On an exhaust manifold, I drilled out the broken stud with an oversize drill and retreaded for a helical coil insert. Worked great.

A guide came with my car that uses the head to guide the drill bit. The guide is a close fit in the bolt hole in the head and the drill bit is a close fit in the guide.

There are drill bits that are designed to drill drill bits. Very hard and expensive. See https://www.mcmaster.com/drill-bits/...ardened-steel/
Ive broken my share of extraction stuff over the decades. Enough of that. Iím too old/shaky to keep from breaking stuff.
Since I have 7-8 more to go, Im thinking Tig now.
I was using double nut, and foot long pipe wrench when this first one let go. I also soaked all studs for a month with acetone/ATF mix. All a waste of time.
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Old 02-15-2021, 02:38 AM   #16
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Default Re: Stud removal; broken stud process Q.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Terry Burtz, Calif View Post
Take it to a specialist with a plunge EDM (Electrical Discharge Machining).

One service near you is: http://brokentap.com/services/

Hey Terry,
Thanks much for this great info !
I was talking with Pres of Model A club this morning.
He , a mech engineer, said same as you r input. He said that there is an additional method , similar to the EDM.
I will look into the referrence you gave. Thanks again.
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Old 02-15-2021, 02:46 AM   #17
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Default Re: Stud removal; broken stud process Q.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Terry Burtz, Calif View Post
Take it to a specialist with a plunge EDM (Electrical Discharge Machining).

One service near you is: http://brokentap.com/services/
I will be HAPPY, when ...soon...I get my NEW blk from you !! No more messing with this ancient ford rusted stuff !!
Canít wait.... thanks for all YOU have done to make it happen !!
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Old 02-15-2021, 02:53 AM   #18
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Default Re: Stud removal; broken stud process Q.

Quote:
Originally Posted by John View Post
The weld a nut to the stud is the best method even if the stud is broken off flush with the block. The heat from welding on the stud and a bit of penetrating lubricant will usually get the job done to loosen the stud. The use of an EZ out frequently ends up in disaster. If the stud is too frozen to come out without breaking, most likely the EZ out will break off also. The broken EZ out is much harder to remove as it is a very hard steel that will resist most any normal attempt to be drilled out.
Hey John,
Amen to what you state !
Been there done that
Thanks
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Old 02-15-2021, 09:20 AM   #19
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Default Re: Stud removal; broken stud process Q.

Quote:
Originally Posted by nkaminar View Post
I would try this first on a scrap block. In shop class in high school I was taught that a cutting torch would blow out a steel stud from a cast iron block. The torch melts and blows out the stud without damaging the threads in the block. The torch melts the stud by using the oxygen to burn the steel but the cast iron is not touched. Again, I would try this first on a scrap block. The stud does not have to be stuck in the scrap block, just inserted. By the way, that would have been in 1962.
Pretty common trick for removing bearings from shafts. Oxidization, the process of using a cutting torch will stop when encountering a parting line in an assembly. Tricky part about threads is the heat transfer rate at the point of the thread, the heat transfers quickly resuming the oxidization almost instantly.
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Old 02-15-2021, 09:22 AM   #20
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Default Re: Stud removal; broken stud process Q.

If you end up drilling use a timesert,way better than a helicoil.
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