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Old 03-20-2021, 12:29 AM   #261
hardtimes
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Default Re: The Terry Burtz 5 main bearing engine blocks are back on track.

Quote:
Originally Posted by motordr View Post
Great to hear! Can’t wait to see them here in Canada! Very encouraging!
Birthday this week ...for real ! And this Burtz present takes/makes the cake !!
Started unwrapping and examining all. Took a long close check of everything. Ive been ‘playing’ with old rusted worn out original ford blocks, cranks, rods forever !
This new equipment is impressively STOUT !
With modern metallurgy, machining , fit/finish...this best thing since sliced bread !!
The castings are perfect. The block is perfect ( and heavy) , and the crank is a work of beauty !
Here’s a great aspect... ALL THE MACHINE SURFACES ARE READY FOR ASSEMBLY !!
Machine work is super expensive , unless you own machine shop. I dont have to spend thereby saving $$$$ !
Believe what you will about costs of original blocks etc.. vs this beautiful NEW equipment. I see getting in on first order... as win/win for me !
Bearings off the shelf.. with perfect fit. Same with gasket and bolts kit. Heck, I even went into my junk pile and got an A pan... it fits !!
The blk in numbered, as are the rods... lots of great thinking went into this. Stock EVERYTHING works!
Luckily, I have a five bearing cam that Jim B cut for an OHV head I’ll be using. The head FITS !
Even has 5 cam bearings INSTALLED !
Cherry on top ? Yeah... there is a manual directing how to for owner !!
Excited to get started, but have to finish one ahead of Burtz at this time !
NO CONTEST...IMO $ wise. Thanks Terry.

Did I say that this equipment is BEEFY ?? Wait till you set eyes on it !
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Old 03-20-2021, 12:50 AM   #262
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Default Re: The Terry Burtz 5 main bearing engine blocks are back on track.

Pictures anyone ??

Last edited by hardtimes; 03-20-2021 at 12:55 AM. Reason: Zzzzzz
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Old 03-20-2021, 01:49 AM   #263
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Default Re: The Terry Burtz 5 main bearing engine blocks are back on track.

I should get ours in the new few weeks,
I spent today making a remote filter mount and pipe work for them.it came out very nice.
Pics tomorrow
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Old 03-20-2021, 03:05 AM   #264
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Default Re: The Terry Burtz 5 main bearing engine blocks are back on track.

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Originally Posted by Synchro909 View Post
Terry, I tried ordering from Jeggs but ran into trouble with their website. I suspect they put on too much security when access is from outside the US (understandably). Holden, now closed down, was GM's Australian branch and they may have used some of those engines, I don't know. ....
I've ordered from Jegs, but via ebay as the shipping is more reasonable.

It says:
1964 CHEVROLET IMPALA
  • Liter: 4.6
  • SubModel: SS
  • Aspiration: NATURALLY ASPIRATED
  • Fitment Notes: Standard Size
  • CUI: 283
  • Engine Type: V8 ( 4.6L / 283 )
A friend of mine in my youth had a 64 Impala. Should be able to get parts somewhere for a 283. Try Auto Surplus.
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Old 03-20-2021, 08:26 AM   #265
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Default Re: The Terry Burtz 5 main bearing engine blocks are back on track.

HapPy Birthday Hardtimes! What a great present! Enjoy!
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Old 03-20-2021, 12:27 PM   #266
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Default Re: The Terry Burtz 5 main bearing engine blocks are back on track.

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Just have to pick a day and go get mine. About 120 miles north of Santee. Can't wait!
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Old 03-20-2021, 07:55 PM   #267
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Default Re: The Terry Burtz 5 main bearing engine blocks are back on track.

Quote:
Originally Posted by updraught View Post
I've ordered from Jegs, but via ebay as the shipping is more reasonable.

It says:
1964 CHEVROLET IMPALA
  • Liter: 4.6
  • SubModel: SS
  • Aspiration: NATURALLY ASPIRATED
  • Fitment Notes: Standard Size
  • CUI: 283
  • Engine Type: V8 ( 4.6L / 283 )
A friend of mine in my youth had a 64 Impala. Should be able to get parts somewhere for a 283. Try Auto Surplus.
All sorted with the help of a friendly Barner in the US
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Old 03-21-2021, 11:57 AM   #268
Terry Burtz, Calif
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Default Re: The Terry Burtz 5 main bearing engine blocks are back on track.

hardtimes,

Happy Birthday and thanks for the comments.
Please continue to comment on fits and tolerances as you assemble the new engine.
The "Engine Builders Guide" that comes with the engine kit is a document that changes with time. To see the latest revision, go to www.modelaengine.com and click on "GUIDES"





The 1st production run of new engine kits is being picked up and shipped from the warehouse in Hawthorne, CA.

The 2nd production run has been ordered and is expected to arrive in June 2021.

The introductory price is in effect until the end of March 2021. After that date, the price to individuals will increase. Dealers will get a discount for quantity orders. The 1st production run is sold out. To get on the waiting list for the 2nd production run, go to www.modelaengine.com and fill out the order form under "How to Order". No deposit is required. Submit the form before the end of March to get the introductory price.

Many comments and questions have been made and asked. The following is a sampling of emails received.




Hi Terry,

Would you use or recommend using:

1. Larger exhaust valves

2. Bronze timing gear set

3. Adjustable lifters – single or two nut

I have read so many pros and cons, I no longer know the truth. I drive my Model A about 3K or more miles a year.

Thanks, Kerry



Kerry,

To get more performance, modern engines (and modified Model A engines) use larger intake valves.
Think of the engine as an air pump. It's easier to push air (exhaust) than to suck air (intake).
The intake ports of a stock Model A engine are more restrictive when compared to the new Model A engine.
My feeling is that oversize ports and stock-size valves in the new engine will flow close to the flow of oversize valves in an old engine. Flow bench testing would be needed to measure the difference.
I would use an aluminum timing gear. Bronze is stronger, but not worth the extra expense.
Single lock tappets are recommended.
Please read the attached "New Model A Engine Builders Guide".
Terry Burtz




To whom it may concern:
I would like to start by saying Wow! I read through your entire design article and I am amazed at everything you thought of and your talents in building something like this improved design.
If I understood correctly your first production run was produced in China. My question is do you foresee a future where you would have a US based foundry pour the pieces? My reason for asking is because I have a government job and prefer when possible to support US workers as they support me through their tax dollars. My second question is how much is the current run if there is no US batch in the plans?
Thank you for your time, Bob

Bob,
Thanks for the kind words, compliments, and questions.
I tried having the new engine parts manufactured in CA for several years without success. The cylinder block is a complex casting that is beyond the capabilities of any remaining foundry in CA.
I'm in Silicon Valley and everything invented here is manufactured in the far east because CA is very unfriendly towards any manufacturing business.
The factories in China are friendly, eager to please, can hold the tight tolerances needed for this project, and their price is affordable.
Our orders are in the hundreds compared to Mitsubishi that just ordered 10,000 engines.
Terry Burtz





Thanks Terry-I just ordered one for June delivery I ordered it with flywheel -but I am running the later Ford clutch which means flywheel needs to be turned down ????? Am I better off using flywheel I have and turning it down here or ??? I imagine your flywheel is stock although lightened??

Thanks for your help

Best of luck with your venture ..Doug


Doug,
Thanks for your order.
The 30-pound flywheel is drilled for the V-8 pressure plate.
Pasted below is what is in section 12 of "The New Engine Builders Guide" which can be found at www.modelaengine.com by clicking on "Guides".
12) Flywheel
The optional 30 pound flywheel is machined to use the Ford V-8 9-inch "Long design" pressure plate (48-7563 or 09A-7563). We do not recommend the use of the 8N-7563 tractor pressure plate. The new flywheel is machined to accept the original Ford shoulder bolts (350433- S) that attach the pressure plate to the flywheel. Other 5/16-18 shoulder bolts can be used. Shoulder bolts are much stronger in shear than fully threaded bolts. These bolts should use lock washers and we recommend a torque of 18 lb-ft. The new flywheel does not come with a ring gear installed because the beveled teeth on the ring gear need to be at the rear if using a Model A starter, and at the front if using a gear reduction starter. We do not recommend the use of a "barrel" tractor starter drive instead of an original Bendix because the "barrel" drive has a shorter throw (the distance that the pinion gear moves between rest and extension), and it will not engage the ring gear completely. The new flywheel does not come with a pilot bearing because some people prefer the porous bronze oil impregnated bushing while others prefer a ball bearing.
Terry Burtz




John , Charlie Yapp recommended I speak to you gentlemen . He told me about your new engine, why I should be interested in it ,-- and I’m doing a 1939 Model a engine Dirt Track racecar . But I have some questions for you .

My understanding is it’s a new block , 5 main crank (insert bearings ) and a set of insert brg rods ?
Does it need line boreing ?
Cam bearings ?
Valve seats installed?
What R.P.M should this attain and still live?
Deck planed?
Bores done? Why aren’t pistons supplied?
Not balanced? And no bearings supplied?
Is it cleaned i.e does it need hot tanking or ?
Anything else I need to know ?
Cost ?
Sorry I know its lots of questions I’m just trying to figure out costs compared to a total machine shop rebuild and the surprises that come from rebuilding with questionable block /crank etc . (mine not yours)

Shipping? from Calif to 13669 (upper New York ) commercial dock unloading -if you have an idea please advise . Thanks and advise what your delivery timing is . Doug


Doug,

Thanks for your interest in the new Model A engine kit.

For more details, please see www.modelaengine.com

Regarding your questions:

1) Yes, you get a new cylinder block, crankshaft, and 4 connecting rods.

2) The cylinder block is line bored and each of the 5-main caps is aligned with 2 dowel pins.

3) The cylinder block comes with 5 cam bearings installed.

4) The exhaust valve seats are hard and replaceable. Intake seats are grey iron and can be enlarged.

5) The connecting rod was finite element analyzed and stresses were low at 5500 RPM. During engineering evaluation testing, we assembled the engine and then broke it in by running it at 3100 RPM for 6 hours straight.

6) The upper surface of the cylinder block is machined and ready for assembly.

7) The bores are ready for assembly. We used Egge pistons with narrow rings in the engineering evaluation engine and they fit with .004-inch wall clearance. We are only supplying the unique parts needed to build a new engine that looks stock but has internal improvements. Any piston that fits a stock Model A engine can be used.

8) The 4 connecting rods are balanced as a set. The crankshaft is static and dynamically balanced. Insert bearings (Federal Mogul 2020 CP) were used in GM V-8 engines, in-line 6-cylinder engines, and in-line 4-cylinder engines from 1955 until 2003 and are readily available from almost any auto parts supplier, Amazon, and eBay.

9) The parts are lightly oiled, placed in plastic bags, and shipped in wooden crates. They may accumulate dust and there may be chips in the oil passages from machining. In the "Builder's Guide", we recommend that all parts be surgically clean for long engine life.

10) Read everything on www.modelaengine.com Some of the information in the "Main Article" has changed as the design has matured.

11) The introductory price is $3500 until the end of March 2021. After that date, the price to individuals is $3950. Dealers will get a discount for quantity orders. The 1st production run is sold out. To get on the waiting list for the 2nd production run, go to www.modelaengine.com and fill out the order form under "How to Order". No deposit is required. Submit the form before the end of March to get the introductory price.

John Lampl has made arrangements with a shipping company that will ship at a discount rate. When you return the order form, you will get a quote including sales tax and shipping to the residential or commercial address that you specify.

The 2nd production run is expected to arrive in June 2021. After the container is on the ship and leaves China, you will receive an invoice.

Terry Burtz









Hey Terry,
Ive been planning regarding building new model A... Burtz engine.
1- Any problem with having your new 5 main crank ... drilled for full pressure ? Any comment as to good/ bad /unnecessary , etc ...
2- Can a model A oil pan be used, or must a model B pan be used (with your new engine blk) ? Any pan mods necessary to use either ?
3- oil pump use.
What pump did you end up using when engine was first built/run ?
Did you end up with modern high volume pump (Stipe?).
Did you ever use pressured oil system in new engine. Comment ?
4- Do you have WRITTEN instruction/advice to go with blk order ?
5- are surfaces FLAT, or need to be made flat ?
THANKS TERRY !
Your friend
Richard


Richard,
1) The new Model A engine crankshaft is drilled for oil pressure from the mains to the connecting rods and the connecting rod journals are cross-drilled. There are no dippers on the connecting rods, but the reinforcing ribs extend the same length to splash oil for cylinder wall, wrist pin, tappet, and valve guide lubrication
2) A stock unmodified Model A oil pan can be used. Dimpling is not needed.
3) We used a stock Model A oil pump that was modified to double the area of all passages and incorporate a relief valve. See "Doubling the Flow Area of a Model A Oil Pump" at www.modelaengine.com We did not use an oil filter on the engineering evaluation engine. There are 17 drilled oil passages in the cylinder block and 4 in the crankshaft that supplied pressure lubrication in the engineering evaluation engine.
4) I'm attaching the "Builders Guide", "Doubling the Flow Area of A Model A Oil Pump", and "Installing an Oil Filter". These should answer many questions. The "New Model A Engine Builders Guide" and other documents are evolving and subject to change. The latest revisions can be found under "GUIDES" at www.modelaengine.com
5) All machined surfaces are flat, have the proper surface finish, and follow the original Ford drawing. Within the last month, the factory in China received an order for 10,000 Mitsubishi engines, and the new Model A engine will have the same precision and quality assurance.
Terry Burtz





Hi Terry,

Hope this finds you well and in good spirits. I'm hoping to hear soon that the engines will be shipping out of LA. In the meantime I was wondering if it would be a good idea when it arrives to balance the crank, crankshaft gear and pulley, rods, pistons, and flywheel as an assembly before putting the engine all together? If this is advisable, should I include the clutch assembly as well? I have an A friend that said he would help me with the assembly (he's done many in his time) and said we should record the process and then post it online. I think that might be a fun thing to do. I have a local machinist who's working on the special bolts needed for the oil filter and oil pressure gauge.
Steve


Steve,

I'm in good spirits and thanks for your comments.
The engine kits are at Averitt Express, 3133 West 131st Street, Hawthorne, CA 90250, Phone 800 283-7488, https://www.averittexpress.com/publi.../CA/LGB.jspThe kits are ready for pick up at Averitt or will be shipped from Averitt if you are in the first production run.
The new connecting rods are balanced as a set and not with any other parts.
Pistons are balanced as a set from the manufacturer.
The new crankshaft is static and dynamically balanced.
When they arrive (mid-April), the new flywheels will be balanced.
The new engine parts are made and balanced in a factory that makes 10's of thousands of engines to tolerances that are very tight. There are shops that assemble formula 1 engines that rev to 18000 RPM and the balance in this application needs to be more precise.
The crankshaft timing gear and front pulley have a very small mass that is close to the center of rotation and they don't need to be balanced.
Instead of balancing each rotating part separately which takes more time, automobile machine shops get lazy, want to maximize profit, and talk the customer into balancing all rotating parts as an assembly.
The other reason for balancing the "assembly" is because of machining errors where the flywheel mounting flange is no longer concentric with the rear main journal. When this happens, the crankshaft and flywheel need to be matched marked and will only be in balance when match marks are aligned.
The new engine parts are all balanced separately and no match marks are needed.
Having everything balanced as an assembly makes it difficult if you want to change one rotating part because all rotating parts will need to be rebalanced as an assembly.
Terry Burtz






Hi Terry,
Thanks so much for getting back to me. It appears from your description that additional balancing will not be necessary (I don't think I'll be formula 1 racing anytime soon).
Just want to make sure I do everything correctly (the first time).
If I'm in the second production run any idea when they might arrive?
Thanks again for all your help.
Steve

Steve,
You are correct, everything from the factory is balanced individually.
During the engineering evaluation testing during the 6-hour test at 3100 RPM (75 MPH), there were no noticeable vibrations.
The 2nd production run should be here in June 2021 unless it has the same problems as the 1st production run (new Covid outbreak, energy shortage, container shortage, and stuck in a holding pattern off the coast of Los Angeles waiting to unload).
Terry Burtz



Good morning Terry, can you tell me if using Chrome moly rings will be a good combination for the new block. I don’t suppose the is anything special about the type of cast iron. Any gray cast used in modern block casting should be fine.
Looking forward to my kit availability. I have been in touch with a gent in Vancouver, WA to facilitate shipping. I have offered to pickup those kits available for Oregon an Washington. I believe he said sometime in May.
In any case, looking forward to the time of delivery.
Best regards,
Larry

Larry,
The cylinder block is a modern grey iron alloy that is compatible with any ring choice.
You may want to consider using thinner than stock rings.
Rings are either chrome or moly, but not both.
Please read https://www.hastingspistonrings.com/...commendations/
We used Hastings ring set 665 in the engineering evaluation engine along with Egge E1104 pistons.
Terry Burtz
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Old 03-21-2021, 07:33 PM   #269
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Default Re: The Terry Burtz 5 main bearing engine blocks are back on track.

Hey Terry,
As you know, my flywheel did not come with my engine kit.. as ordered.
What is your plan for my receiving the flywheel ?
That is... pick up or have delivered ?
I’m not in hurry, just like to know plan. THANKS Rick (Hardtimes).

BTW.... If not too much trouble, TWO flywheels would be nice.

Last edited by hardtimes; 03-21-2021 at 07:35 PM. Reason: Xxxxx
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Old 03-22-2021, 01:49 AM   #270
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Default Re: The Terry Burtz 5 main bearing engine blocks are back on track.

this is the filter set up I made today for the new A engines,
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Old 03-22-2021, 05:24 PM   #271
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Default Re: The Terry Burtz 5 main bearing engine blocks are back on track.

Questions:

1. In Guides for Oil filter does the date under the title the version number?

2. Are the portions with gray background the edited portions of text?



3.Terry please note that the gray background ONLY appears when you print the document!

Last edited by Benson; 03-22-2021 at 05:30 PM.
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Old 03-22-2021, 05:46 PM   #272
Terry Burtz, Calif
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Default Re: The Terry Burtz 5 main bearing engine blocks are back on track.

hardtimes,
The flywheels should arrive near the end of April 2021.

Benson,
The "Builders Guide" that comes with the engine kit is abbreviated and has been revised several times. The latest revision of the "Builders Guide", "Doubling the Flow Area of a Model A Oil Pump", and "Installing an Oil Filter" can be found at www.modelaengine.com
Click on "Guides" and then click on the guide that you want to read.
When you open one of the guides, the date under the title is when it was last revised.
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Old 03-22-2021, 06:24 PM   #273
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Default Re: The Terry Burtz 5 main bearing engine blocks are back on track.

removed

Last edited by Benson; 03-26-2021 at 09:06 AM.
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Old 03-22-2021, 08:40 PM   #274
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Default Re: The Terry Burtz 5 main bearing engine blocks are back on track.

Love Benson's story. It reminds me of one of my wife's cousins who was very good with languages. He had been working for a multinational pharmaceutical company in Vietnam for a while and had become quite proficient in that language, even learning to read and write it. One day, he was informed that he was being transferred to China so he set about learning Mandarin, both speaking it and reading it.
On his first day in the new office, he sensed there were going to be problems because he wasn't Chinese. One of the first things asked of him was to go to the manager's office for a welcome. When he arrived, the manager was on the phone talking in Mandarin but the conversation didn't sound quite right so cousin ran an eye over some of the papers spread on the desk. It turned out the manager was ripping off the company and selling product on the black market for his own gain.
When the conversation was over, the manager turned to cousin and went through the usual welcome talk in English while cousin remained silent. As he left the office, cousin thanks the manager but ended with a couple of sentences in Mandarin. There was a look of horror in the manager's face as reality dawned on him but cousin never said anything more about it nor did he have any trouble in that branch.
PS It was while he was there that he was diagnosed with Melanoma. He returned to Australia but died from it not long after at the age of 42.
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Old 03-22-2021, 09:00 PM   #275
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Default Re: The Terry Burtz 5 main bearing engine blocks are back on track.

off topic

Last edited by Benson; 03-26-2021 at 09:05 AM.
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Old 03-23-2021, 04:10 PM   #276
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Default Re: The Terry Burtz 5 main bearing engine blocks are back on track.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Terry Burtz, Calif View Post
hardtimes,
The flywheels should arrive near the end of April 2021.

Benson,
The "Builders Guide" that comes with the engine kit is abbreviated and has been revised several times. The latest revision of the "Builders Guide", "Doubling the Flow Area of a Model A Oil Pump", and "Installing an Oil Filter" can be found at www.modelaengine.com
Click on "Guides" and then click on the guide that you want to read.
When you open one of the guides, the date under the title is when it was last revised.
Hey Terry,
Thanks for info and your help regarding flywheels !
Speaking of flywheels, I spent a LOT of time going thru...ALL of the background info/research / work that you did in regards to this engine...Wow, no wonder it has turned out to be such a great product.

I came to a page where a picture of a flywheel of 20 pounds was shown. 'Soon to be available' ...was the caption. Can you comment on this item ?
It appears to be a combination of aluminum and cast iron ?? I'm interested. NICE looking equipment !
Q: Will your agent accept cash at time of pickup...or ?
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Old 03-23-2021, 07:11 PM   #277
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Default Re: The Terry Burtz 5 main bearing engine blocks are back on track.

hardtimes,

The flywheel shown in the picture had a cast-iron center from a Model A flywheel, a bell section made from 356-T7 Aluminum, and a Model A ring gear that was drilled for attachment bolts. This is not a production item because of all the machine work needed.

The 30-pound production flywheels for the "new engine" are all cast iron and will be here in late April 2021. When they leave China, John Lampl (Allied Classics) will send out invoices. For ease of bookkeeping, you need to pay the invoice, and then John will notify the warehouse in Hawthorne to release the merchandise. The warehouse is not set up to receive cash payments.
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Old 03-23-2021, 11:53 PM   #278
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Default Re: The Terry Burtz 5 main bearing engine blocks are back on track.

Terry, If we ordered the flywheel initially with the first shipment and did not receive one, are we secure in having first shot at the ones coming in late April? Or, do we have to fill out an order?
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Old 03-24-2021, 06:36 PM   #279
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Default Re: The Terry Burtz 5 main bearing engine blocks are back on track.

Russ,

Yes, if you placed an order for a flywheel, you are on the list to get one.

If anyone has a question regarding what they have ordered or not ordered, please contact John Lampl (jrlampl@jrlasia.com)
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Old 03-24-2021, 07:42 PM   #280
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Default Re: The Terry Burtz 5 main bearing engine blocks are back on track.

Pic of the pipe work with out the filter on.
I made six sets yesterday, they use an easy to get oil filter
Lawrie
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