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Old 08-31-2021, 02:40 PM   #401
Bruce of MN
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Default Re: The Terry Burtz 5 main bearing engine blocks are back on track.

What are those flanged items in the flywheel spot in picture #11 (4 of 6)? Flywheels? I don’t see the teeth.
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Old 08-31-2021, 03:52 PM   #402
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Default Re: The Terry Burtz 5 main bearing engine blocks are back on track.

[QUOTE=Terry Burtz, Calif

The "New Model A Engine" is closer to 2000 technology than it is to 1920's technology, and home builders need to work with engine builders familiar with new engines.

There have been a few cases where home builders and engine builders familiar with 1920's technology don't understand modern insert bearings and the bores that they fit into.

The bores are circular, and the modern inserts are spread at the parting line. Before assembly, the inserts protrude above the parting line, and when assembled, the inserts become flush with the parting line and become circular with the equivalent of a press fit.

The bearing tabs are for locating and are not used to keep the insert from spinning in the bore.

Please don't remove material from the parting plane of the inserts, fail to follow the "Builders Guide" regarding stud clearance, or shim bearing caps because you think that the line boring bar machined oval holes.
[/QUOTE]

Wow! It's hard to believe that any engine builder does not know about bearing crush! This is about as basic as it gets, and insert bearings have been around far longer than any current engine builder. Makes one wonder what else they bugger up!
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Old 09-01-2021, 03:14 PM   #403
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Default Re: The Terry Burtz 5 main bearing engine blocks are back on track.

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Originally Posted by 40 Deluxe View Post
Wow! It's hard to believe that any engine builder does not know about bearing crush! This is about as basic as it gets, and insert bearings have been around far longer than any current engine builder. Makes one wonder what else they bugger up!

I was thinking the same, but, wasn't sure i should say it. Thats pretty rudimentary!
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Old 09-04-2021, 07:29 PM   #404
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Default Re: The Terry Burtz 5 main bearing engine blocks are back on track.

I put my name on the list!
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Old 09-16-2021, 10:30 PM   #405
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Default Re: The Terry Burtz 5 main bearing engine blocks are back on track.

Production run #2 Shipping Status

I spoke with John Lampl today, and he informed me that there is another delay with the first of several containers for production run #2 that is beyond our control. John's words are pasted below.

The immediate production for ocean freight delivery had been postponed from the 5th of Sep (originally) to the 15th and then the 21st.. We were just advised the recent Typhoon "Chanthu" that hit eastern China (shanghai), has caused sailing cancellations including our booking. We have word the next vessel will schedule for around the 5th of October. This will have goods arriving port in the USA the 1st week of Nov. There is nothing we can do but keep trying. The port situation is quite backed up.. We will try to keep everyone updated. Once the container is onboard, things will be more predictable...


New Optional Parts

To enhance the "New Engine Kit", we are offering 3 additional parts that have improvements over stock or aftermarket parts that are currently available. These 3 parts have the stock Model A interfaces and can be used with either a stock Model A engine or with the "New Engine Kit".

Flywheel
We offer a 30-pound flywheel that is drilled for the V-8 pressure plate. The flywheels are in stock at the Hawthorne, CA warehouse and can be sent UPS flat rate for a savings in shipping.

Cylinder Head
We are finalizing the design of a 6.5 to 1 cylinder head. Like the new cylinder block, the exterior of an original production cylinder head was laser scanned to copy every intricate detail and the water flow circuit has been designed for increased flow at exhaust ports #3 and #4. The combustion chamber resembles the combustion chamber in the A-6050-B Police head. This new head will be flat, have the correct appearance, correct length, correct width, and the stud holes will be centered in the bosses. In addition, all 4 water pump attachment holes will be blind so that sealant is not needed. We do not expect to award a production contract until early next year.

Camshaft
We have awarded a manufacturing contract for a new 5 bearing camshaft. It is a "touring" grind with 0.340 inches of lift like a Model B or Stipe camshaft. If you wish to regrind it for more performance or for an OHV, the lobe tips are hardened to a depth of 2 to 3 mm and the remainder of the lobe is hardened to a depth of 1.5 to 2 mm. The new camshaft has passages for additional lubrication. If the new camshaft is used in the "New Engine Kit" there will be 17 pressure fed bearings instead of 16. These camshafts should be ready to ship near the end of November 2021.


Professional Builders vs Home Builders

Professional builders that understand modern engines and follow the "Builders Guide" have thousands of miles on their new engines without problems. Dennis Kliesen has close to 10,000 miles on his engine followed by Bob Beers who finished in the upper 3rd in the Great Race, and Dave Gerold (Durable Performance) who has pulled a trailer while touring.

A few home builders that aren't familiar with modern engines and don't understand or follow the "Builders Guide" are having a variety of problems because they don't understand bearing crush, mistakenly think that the line bore operation can produce oval holes that are not in alignment, wonder why their rear main seal leaks when one side is installed 1/4 inch further than the other side, wonder why runouts are excessive when they are measuring runout with a flimsy dial indicator setup, etc.


Pietenpol

I spoke with the author and proofread a magazine article that is being written regarding the use of the "New Engine Kit" in a Pietenpol airplane. I emphasized that we accept no liability and that there is no guarantee if the new engine is used in an airplane. The new engine is attractive because of the 9 crankshaft bearings that are 2-inch diameter, the 16 or 17 pressurized bearings, and the fact that with a minor alteration, the thrust bearing pulling the airplane forward can have continuous pressurized lubrication instead of crankcase mist found in a stock Model A engine.

Last edited by Terry Burtz, Calif; 09-17-2021 at 01:20 AM. Reason: Correct errors
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Old 09-17-2021, 12:02 AM   #406
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Default Re: The Terry Burtz 5 main bearing engine blocks are back on track.

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Last edited by Pete; 09-22-2021 at 08:22 PM.
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Old 09-17-2021, 12:15 AM   #407
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Default Re: The Terry Burtz 5 main bearing engine blocks are back on track.

Is the camshaft from Stipe?

Who designed the combustion chamber of the new head?
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Old 09-17-2021, 01:02 AM   #408
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Default Re: The Terry Burtz 5 main bearing engine blocks are back on track.

Pete,
Thanks for finding my error. The camshaft lobes have 0.340 inches of lift like a Model B or Stipe camshaft.

Our parts are being manufactured in ISO-certified manufacturing plants that manufacture 100's of thousands of parts per year for many new OEM applications. To maintain ISO certification, Quality Assurance is at the top of the list and I am unaware of any problems. Perhaps smaller manufacturers have problems. Can you elaborate?

Brian,
The Stipe camshafts do not have the added lubrication passages.

The combustion chamber is a modified A-6050-B chamber.
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Old 09-17-2021, 07:35 AM   #409
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Default Re: The Terry Burtz 5 main bearing engine blocks are back on track.

Terry, I spoke with a representative when I visited the web site and asked if there would be an example of your new engine in Hershey and he said he was working on it. Any updates?


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Old 09-17-2021, 08:26 AM   #410
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Default Re: The Terry Burtz 5 main bearing engine blocks are back on track.

Terry, will the camshaft be made from of steel or iron?
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Old 09-17-2021, 03:23 PM   #411
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Default Re: The Terry Burtz 5 main bearing engine blocks are back on track.

Many modern cast iron cam cores are made off shore and have been for many years. They are plenty adequate for the use they are made for. Herein lies the problem.
These cores are induction hardened. While this process can be very accurate and harden the critical areas only, the heat is usually turned up in order to increase production and as soon as this happens, the core between the lobes is affected and becomes hard in random spots only. The core between the lobes should not be hard.
An easy but time consuming check can be made by Rockwell testing in in 100 spots along a core in between the lobes. Another check can be made by trying to machine in between the lobes with a carbide parting tool for a hot rod grind. This will show the hard spots instantly. This is usually not a problem with overhead valve cams because they are seldom relieved but a core like this can cause early failure in a flathead engine.
If you use a cast iron core that is designed for a specific purpose, there should be no problems assuming you use a lifter material that is compatible. (that can be a whole other ball game)
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Old 09-18-2021, 03:52 PM   #412
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Default Re: The Terry Burtz 5 main bearing engine blocks are back on track.

Terry,

Do you have a price or a rough estimate for the new cam?

David Serrano
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Old 09-21-2021, 04:59 PM   #413
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Default Re: The Terry Burtz 5 main bearing engine blocks are back on track.

Frank (emf),
The "New Engine" will not be at Hershey because we won't have any parts to display. The 1st container of the 2nd production run is scheduled to leave China on October 5, 2021 which will be too late for Hershey.



motordr,
The new camshaft will be made of nodular iron which has good damping properties and is the material used in the majority of new engines.



Pete,
Thanks for your comments and the explanation of your concerns. I'm in total agreement with your concerns about turning the heat up to increase production. This may occur in small factories that do not have good quality control. With hardness comes brittleness which is not acceptable if a part deflects under load.

The "New Engine" camshafts are made in a factory where their only product is a variety of nodular iron camshafts that are used in most OEM applications. They do not make billet or forged steel camshafts. The advantage of nodular iron is damping. Our order for new camshafts is large enough where specific procedures have been written and are being followed to produce a quality product.

The new camshaft is made of nodular iron and the various surfaces are induction hardened to different hardness. The 8 lobes are HRC58/62, and the bearing surfaces and gear are HRC40/52.

Care is being taken to not harden the small diameter between lobes.

You mentioned that Rockwell hardness testing could be done at several points to measure hardness, but every test point would be a stress riser. You also mentioned attempting to cut with a carbide tool, which I think is better. The third method that I prefer is to look at the heat-affected area.

The attached photographs of the new camshaft show a gradual color change between lobes and a band of no color change midway between lobes. This is an indication that there are no random hard spots and that there is a gradual transition from hard to soft. The pictures show the gradual change in hardness at the surface, but internally, the core remains soft and ductile.

The camshaft in the new engine is supported with 5 bearings with 2 lobes between bearings, so even if the valve spring pressure was very high, I don't anticipate a bending problem between lobes.

A Model A camshaft supported by 3 bearings has 4 lobes between bearings and the deflections will be greater.

Even worse is the Ford flathead V-8 design where the camshaft has 3 bearings and there are 8 lobes between bearings.



David Serrano,
The retail price for the new camshaft is $375. Quantity discounts are available to engine builders and parts retailers that buy 5 or more at a time. Shipping a quantity instead of individually is also cheaper.
Attached Images
File Type: jpg Camshaft Heat Treat 1.jpg (36.2 KB, 65 views)
File Type: jpg Camshaft Heat Treat 2.jpg (45.0 KB, 61 views)
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Old 09-21-2021, 06:54 PM   #414
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Default Re: The Terry Burtz 5 main bearing engine blocks are back on track.

Are the camshafts usable in a stock block?
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Old 09-22-2021, 06:39 PM   #415
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Default Re: The Terry Burtz 5 main bearing engine blocks are back on track.

If you take all the statements as to all stock A components attach to the new block, and, the description given by Terry of the cam, I see no reason to question the compatibility. The two extra bearings will not be supported in a 3 bearing original block.
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Old 09-23-2021, 05:16 AM   #416
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Default Re: The Terry Burtz 5 main bearing engine blocks are back on track.

Thanks, I should have remembered that.
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Old 10-06-2021, 07:59 PM   #417
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Default Re: The Terry Burtz 5 main bearing engine blocks are back on track.

Is the current run of blocks spoken for?
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Old 10-15-2021, 12:47 PM   #418
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Default Re: The Terry Burtz 5 main bearing engine blocks are back on track.

Hi
Is there anyone who tried different camlifts or duration except for the stipe 0,340 or similar.I was thinking like 0.413 lift.Is there a clearence issue with a higher lift in the burtz combo.
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Old 10-15-2021, 04:02 PM   #419
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Default Re: The Terry Burtz 5 main bearing engine blocks are back on track.

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Is the current run of blocks spoken for?
There are engine kits available from the second run.
On 10/14, I increased my order from 10 to 12 kits and was told there would be warehouse stock after the current orders were filled.

Good Day!
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Old 10-15-2021, 04:21 PM   #420
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Default Re: The Terry Burtz 5 main bearing engine blocks are back on track.

Esso,

The camshaft bearing diameter is 1.559/1.560 inches.

As long as the nose of the lobe does not protrude beyond the 1.559/1.560-inch dimension, a higher lift lobe is permissible and there will be no interference.

A good website to learn about camshafts is tildentechnologies.com/index.html
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