Go Back   The Ford Barn > General Discussion > Model A (1928-31)

Sponsored Links (Register now to hide all advertisements)

Reply
 
Thread Tools Display Modes
Old 05-02-2020, 09:05 AM   #21
johnneilson
BANNED
 
Join Date: Jun 2010
Location: 34.22 N 118.36 W
Posts: 479
Default Re: Timing gears use.

John,

The work that I have been involved with has been on the Dan Price 4 port Cragar head.

Basically, the horizontal flange is removed and replaced with a flange on approx 45 degrees. This takes some welding, have not had any problems, it is a really good casting.
Results, pretty good improvement since it allowed for larger throttle bodies and injection stacks. It did quickly start to show up the other limitations in the head with valve placement and CC shape.
IMHO, the gains are not worth the investment if the vehicle is street driven. The supplied manifold attachment is difficult but workable. If this is done to make a hill climb motor, you had better make the investment in the bottom of the motor.

Stay safe, John
__________________
As Carroll Smith wrote; All Failures are Human in Origin.
johnneilson is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 05-02-2020, 11:29 AM   #22
Dan McEachern
Member
 
Join Date: Aug 2010
Location: SF Bay Area
Posts: 74
Default Re: Timing gears use.

Straight cut cam/crank gears will remove most all of the thrust loading on the cam. There will still be some thrust due to the oil pump drive- not so much from the distributor unless you re running a mag.
Accurately made straight cut gears with the correct backlash do not produce much if any noise, that is an old wives tale or the result of poorly made gears.
Do straight cut gears make a huge difference in power output? no, but if you are chasing every tiny thing, it all helps.
Steve Nelsons V4 Fuel Lakester engine has straight cut timing gears in it and I can tell you after working on that engine for many years, that there is no gear whine at all.
I made numerous sets of straight cut timing gears for Bob McKinney when he was making his twin cam heads and never had a complaint from him or his customers regarding gear noise.
Dan McEachern is offline   Reply With Quote
Sponsored Links (Register now to hide all advertisements)
Old 05-02-2020, 02:03 PM   #23
CarlG
Senior Member
 
CarlG's Avatar
 
Join Date: Nov 2010
Location: Anchorage, Alaska
Posts: 8,544
Default Re: Timing gears use.

I have Dan's bronze/steel matched set of gears in my engine. If there is any noise, I can't detect it. Great set of gears!
__________________
Alaskan A's
Antique Auto Mushers of Alaska
Model A Ford Club of America
Model A Restorers Club
Antique Automobile Club of America
Mullins Owner's Club
CarlG is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 05-02-2020, 04:51 PM   #24
JOHNCL
Junior Member
 
Join Date: Feb 2020
Location: northern Maryland
Posts: 27
Default Re: Timing gears use.

Quote:
Originally Posted by johnneilson View Post
John,

The work that I have been involved with has been on the Dan Price 4 port Cragar head.

Basically, the horizontal flange is removed and replaced with a flange on approx 45 degrees. This takes some welding, have not had any problems, it is a really good casting.
Results, pretty good improvement since it allowed for larger throttle bodies and injection stacks. It did quickly start to show up the other limitations in the head with valve placement and CC shape.
IMHO, the gains are not worth the investment if the vehicle is street driven. The supplied manifold attachment is difficult but workable. If this is done to make a hill climb motor, you had better make the investment in the bottom of the motor.

Stay safe, John
What is the reason for a non-vertical flange? and why do you suppose Dan used horizontal? I hear that Steve Serr's upcoming 4-port has something like a 60 degree angled flange.

thanks for your info.

John
JOHNCL is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 05-02-2020, 06:08 PM   #25
johnneilson
BANNED
 
Join Date: Jun 2010
Location: 34.22 N 118.36 W
Posts: 479
Default Re: Timing gears use.

John

It is all about air flow thru the valve.

Having a straight shot with less turn means the fuel stays suspended in the air more uniformly. This is a very simple explanation, there are many factors. Simply put, the more air that can flow thru the valve and into CC the more HP that can be attained.
If I had to guess, Dan wanted something with more conventional look.
I have seen Steve's 4 port and it looks really good. Yes angled port flange. I am not sure what he is planning for manifolds.

This is what one iteration looked like.

All the best, John
Attached Images
File Type: jpg IMG_5061crop.jpg (55.5 KB, 25 views)
__________________
As Carroll Smith wrote; All Failures are Human in Origin.
johnneilson is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 05-03-2020, 07:57 AM   #26
JOHNCL
Junior Member
 
Join Date: Feb 2020
Location: northern Maryland
Posts: 27
Default Re: Timing gears use.

Quote:
Originally Posted by johnneilson View Post
John

It is all about air flow thru the valve.

Having a straight shot with less turn means the fuel stays suspended in the air more uniformly. This is a very simple explanation, there are many factors. Simply put, the more air that can flow thru the valve and into CC the more HP that can be attained.
If I had to guess, Dan wanted something with more conventional look.
I have seen Steve's 4 port and it looks really good. Yes angled port flange. I am not sure what he is planning for manifolds.

This is what one iteration looked like.

All the best, John
Thanks. Based on your photograph I can see that a vertical manifold face would interfere with the spark plug indentation. Kind of what I was expecting based upon inspection of my own head. BTW, if you have Dan's original intake manifold I would be interested in buying it.

And, my shortblock is a fully reworked set up by Ora Landis including 5 cam bearings and (I think) a modest Brierly cam with a smooth idle. But I am only interested in driving my deuce pickup on the country roads of my neighbor hood along the northwest Chesapeake Bay.
JOHNCL is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 05-03-2020, 12:51 PM   #27
hardtimes
Senior Member
 
hardtimes's Avatar
 
Join Date: May 2010
Location: South California
Posts: 5,876
Default Re: Timing gears use.

Hey John,
'not sure what he is planning for intake manifold'

Steve has stated that he intends to have an intake with OPTIONS for buyer/owner.
From say strombergs, to blower platform, etc. I guess a buyer will have to indicate what he wants that way. Options are good, eh !
hardtimes is offline   Reply With Quote
Reply

Thread Tools
Display Modes

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off

Forum Jump

Sponsored Links (Register now to hide all advertisements)


All times are GMT -5. The time now is 06:08 AM.