The Ford Barn

bogdonj · 09-10-2010, 06:27 PM

As some of you may know I just got a rebuilt engine a few months ago.. been having fun with it and always started up right away and ran good. This morning I went to start it up and it would start but only ran for acouple seconds then would die. tried again and it would start going and couldn't keep it going at all. Replaced the the zenith carb with our tillston(sp) and same thing. Check all the power sources and wiring and everything is getting power to it. took the high tension power wire out of the distributor and put it on a head nut and a good snap of spark everytime. Also made sure the points were getting spark when they open. Even tried snuffing the carb when turning it over and still nothing. The carb coughs out of it. checked the fuel flow from the bowel to the carb and got a good stream of fuel.
We did notice that the amp meter doesn't move anymore but would this have anything to do with starting it? next thing I'm going to check in the morning is the timing but I don't understand how it could get out of timing after it ran so good over the last 2 months.

Any suggestions would be great.. I have a car show to go to in the morning in town and it's funny how the car always seens to act up just before.. always happened to it when we had the old engine and now seems to effect this one..lol

Tom/Ms · 09-10-2010, 07:00 PM

Check your ammeter for a loose connection or a burned out ammeter.Are you sure you are getting a spark from the dist?

Tom Wesenberg · 09-10-2010, 07:55 PM

Also make sure the terminal box connections are clean and tight.

Are you using one of the small stand up screens in the fuel shut off valve? If not, I would recommend it. You may have junk blocking the intake to the shut off valve.

Make sure the ignition key is in good condition. When the engine is running see how far you can turn the key back before the engine stops. My repro switch gave me a lot of trouble before I found and fixed the contacts. Just the weight of a key fob would make it disconnect at times.

1929tudor · 09-10-2010, 08:21 PM

I had the same problem last weekend. I spent about 5 hours testing things , changing things and still wouldn't start. Finally the only thing I could figure the way my car finally started was I took the dash off to look at the ammeter and ignition switch and I think the 2 prongs and the back of the ignition switch where the 2 wires connect (Repo switch)to maybe were hitting the back of the gas tank when the dash went back in place. cause now my car starts. Haven't had time to take it out yet, hopefuly this weekend but it didn't start and now it does so I think it was the prongs hitting the gas tank on back of the ignition switch shorting it out.

Afordman31 · 09-10-2010, 09:43 PM

My buddies Model a wouldn't start, I put in new points and condenser, had 6 volts at the point arm, still wouldn't start. Used a jumper wire on the amp guage an got spark when opening the points. Replaced amp gauge and back in business.

Dennis L Oberer · 09-10-2010, 09:50 PM

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Bruce Adams · 09-11-2010, 06:20 AM

Could the fuel line be pushed in too far into the carb, preventing enough fuel entering to run?

bogdonj · 09-11-2010, 08:23 AM

I am getting spark at the points arm??? is it possible I need to re time the engine? how can timing be off if I haven't made any adjustment to the Dist. since last time it run?????

zzlegend · 09-11-2010, 08:42 AM

Really does not sound like timing. I would double check amp gauge but even more i would look at the ignition switch and wiring behind gauge panel. Just my opinion. Good luck with it.

midgetracer · 09-11-2010, 08:44 AM

It really sounds like fuel problems if it starts and then quits soon after. I would think it may be some restriction in the fuel line that the fuel runs for a short time, then stops. The fuel line pushed in too far seems like a possible senario.

bogdonj · 09-11-2010, 08:51 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by midgetracer

It really sounds like fuel problems if it starts and then quits soon after. I would think it may be some restriction in the fuel line that the fuel runs for a short time, then stops. The fuel line pushed in too far seems like a possible senario.

Made sure of this.. even took the line out of the carb and turned it on and a really good flow came out and filled up a cup pretty fast. Going to order a new amp meter and see if she fires. Or may try that tip with the aligator clips. What causes a amp meter to go? thats 2 this year if it's the case. If the amp meter doesn't work, wouldn't it atleast run but not charge the battery? can someone chime in on that to help explain it to me.

Frank Miller · 09-11-2010, 11:33 AM

An ampmeter is wired in series with all the power going in or out of the battery and if it goes there is an opening in the circuit. But if you are getting spark it may not be the ampmeter. In any case turn on the lights and blow the horn. If the amp needle does not move then it is not working.

steve s · 09-11-2010, 02:28 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by bogdonj

... it would start but only ran for acouple seconds then would die. tried again and it would start going and couldn't keep it going at all. ... Check all the power sources and wiring and everything is getting power to it. took the high tension power wire out of the distributor and put it on a head nut and a good snap of spark everytime. Also made sure the points were getting spark when they open. ...We did notice that the amp meter doesn't move anymore but would this have anything to do with starting it?

The thing to remember about your electrical tests is that they may have been done during the same few seconds as when the car would have briefly run OK. So, they are not reliable.

If the ammeter is never deflecting, there is definitely a problem there, and, as Frank explained, the ignition circuit is in series with the ammeter, so, no electrons go through the ignition primary circuit if they can't also get through the ammeter. That's got to be your first test. If you don't have a set of alligator clip leads, you can jump across the junction box terminals with any old wire, or, if you've got the dash off, wire a little jumper wire in parallel with the ammeter, or, just somehow clamp the two leads to the ammeter together well enough to see if the car will start and stay running.

It's not too far-fetched to imagine a feeble electrical connection in the ammeter that works well enough for a few seconds but rapidly heats up enough to stop working after a few seconds of current flow, and then cools down quickly enough to pass your troubleshooting tests--and make you crazy.

Steve

bogdonj · 09-13-2010, 12:09 PM

stilled baffled????...amp meter works, switch is ok, coil tests ok, plenty of spark from coil wire and at points, re-timed ! even tested spark from plug!....car justs turns over and over and and when I stop all I get is several coughs from carburator and gas blown out??? could it be I'm just not getting the timing down right???

James Rogers · 09-13-2010, 12:23 PM

Does the rotor button turn when the motor turns? Could you have a stripped timing gear or sheared distributor drive?

Tom Wesenberg · 09-13-2010, 12:35 PM

Check the rotor first as James said, and if it turns, then pull number one spark plug and put your finger over the hole while someone hand cranks the engine. This way you can find #1 TDC on the firing stroke. With the spark lever all the way up make sure the timing pin falls into the detent at TDC, then set the rotor to point at #1 contact in the cap and the points should just be ready to OPEN. Hold the distributor cam in this position and tighten the screw.

Larry Seemann · 09-13-2010, 01:35 PM

possibly the pigtail wire from the upper plate to the lower distributor plate. Sometimes it doesn't take much movement for the wire or flag terminals to ground out. ie; it starts to start and you move the spark lever a little and it grounds out.

bogdonj · 09-13-2010, 06:52 PM

alright tried again tonight and still no real success re-timed it again and everything checks out again. tried to start it and the same thing happens to it.... we almost got it going for a split second but then it coughs out of the carb and follows by gas spitting out. Tried again and blue smoke comes out the tail pipe.... the battery is now on the charger! try again tomorrow!

tuneman · 09-13-2010, 07:24 PM

Could the armored wire to the dist be in two far ?
this could short the dist!!

Tom Wesenberg · 09-13-2010, 09:30 PM

While cranking hold the coil wire 1/4" from a head nut and see if you have a good blue spark while cranking. Key on, car in neutral, you can hold the wire with one hand while you grab the starter switch rod with the other hand and push it down. Easy to do without help.

09-10-2010, 07:00 PM	#2
Tom/Ms Junior Member Join Date: May 2010 Posts: 17	Re: Car won't start! Check your ammeter for a loose connection or a burned out ammeter.Are you sure you are getting a spark from the dist?

09-10-2010, 07:55 PM	#3
Tom Wesenberg Senior Member Join Date: May 2010 Location: Mpls, MN Posts: 27,582	Re: Car won't start! Also make sure the terminal box connections are clean and tight. Are you using one of the small stand up screens in the fuel shut off valve? If not, I would recommend it. You may have junk blocking the intake to the shut off valve. Make sure the ignition key is in good condition. When the engine is running see how far you can turn the key back before the engine stops. My repro switch gave me a lot of trouble before I found and fixed the contacts. Just the weight of a key fob would make it disconnect at times.

09-10-2010, 08:21 PM	#4
1929tudor Senior Member Join Date: May 2010 Location: indiana Posts: 135	Re: Car won't start! I had the same problem last weekend. I spent about 5 hours testing things , changing things and still wouldn't start. Finally the only thing I could figure the way my car finally started was I took the dash off to look at the ammeter and ignition switch and I think the 2 prongs and the back of the ignition switch where the 2 wires connect (Repo switch)to maybe were hitting the back of the gas tank when the dash went back in place. cause now my car starts. Haven't had time to take it out yet, hopefuly this weekend but it didn't start and now it does so I think it was the prongs hitting the gas tank on back of the ignition switch shorting it out.

09-10-2010, 09:43 PM	#5
Afordman31 Senior Member Join Date: May 2010 Location: Michigan Posts: 580	Re: Car won't start! My buddies Model a wouldn't start, I put in new points and condenser, had 6 volts at the point arm, still wouldn't start. Used a jumper wire on the amp guage an got spark when opening the points. Replaced amp gauge and back in business.

09-10-2010, 09:50 PM	#6
Dennis L Oberer Senior Member Join Date: May 2010 Location: Green Bay WI Posts: 179	Re: Car won't start! Sponsored Links (Register now to hide all advertisements) Email me for a step by step that is (almost) guaranteed to work. Dennis L Oberer Green Bay WI [email protected]

09-10-2010, 06:27 PM	#1
bogdonj Senior Member Join Date: Aug 2010 Location: Walkerton, Ont. Canada Posts: 623	Car won't start! (UPDATE again) As some of you may know I just got a rebuilt engine a few months ago.. been having fun with it and always started up right away and ran good. This morning I went to start it up and it would start but only ran for acouple seconds then would die. tried again and it would start going and couldn't keep it going at all. Replaced the the zenith carb with our tillston(sp) and same thing. Check all the power sources and wiring and everything is getting power to it. took the high tension power wire out of the distributor and put it on a head nut and a good snap of spark everytime. Also made sure the points were getting spark when they open. Even tried snuffing the carb when turning it over and still nothing. The carb coughs out of it. checked the fuel flow from the bowel to the carb and got a good stream of fuel. We did notice that the amp meter doesn't move anymore but would this have anything to do with starting it? next thing I'm going to check in the morning is the timing but I don't understand how it could get out of timing after it ran so good over the last 2 months. Any suggestions would be great.. I have a car show to go to in the morning in town and it's funny how the car always seens to act up just before.. always happened to it when we had the old engine and now seems to effect this one..lol Last edited by bogdonj; 09-29-2010 at 06:25 PM.

09-11-2010, 06:20 AM	#7
Bruce Adams Senior Member Join Date: May 2010 Location: Northport, NY Posts: 1,597	Re: Car won't start! Could the fuel line be pushed in too far into the carb, preventing enough fuel entering to run?

09-11-2010, 08:23 AM	#8
bogdonj Senior Member Join Date: Aug 2010 Location: Walkerton, Ont. Canada Posts: 623	Re: Car won't start! I am getting spark at the points arm??? is it possible I need to re time the engine? how can timing be off if I haven't made any adjustment to the Dist. since last time it run?????

09-11-2010, 08:42 AM	#9
zzlegend Senior Member Join Date: May 2010 Location: Reseda, Calif. Posts: 2,188	Re: Car won't start! Really does not sound like timing. I would double check amp gauge but even more i would look at the ignition switch and wiring behind gauge panel. Just my opinion. Good luck with it.

09-11-2010, 08:44 AM	#10
midgetracer Senior Member Join Date: May 2010 Location: Bismarck ND Posts: 1,189	Re: Car won't start! It really sounds like fuel problems if it starts and then quits soon after. I would think it may be some restriction in the fuel line that the fuel runs for a short time, then stops. The fuel line pushed in too far seems like a possible senario.

09-11-2010, 11:33 AM	#12
Frank Miller Senior Member Join Date: May 2010 Location: Auburn, MA Posts: 2,106	Re: Car won't start! An ampmeter is wired in series with all the power going in or out of the battery and if it goes there is an opening in the circuit. But if you are getting spark it may not be the ampmeter. In any case turn on the lights and blow the horn. If the amp needle does not move then it is not working.

09-13-2010, 12:09 PM	#14
bogdonj Senior Member Join Date: Aug 2010 Location: Walkerton, Ont. Canada Posts: 623	Re: Car won't start! stilled baffled????...amp meter works, switch is ok, coil tests ok, plenty of spark from coil wire and at points, re-timed ! even tested spark from plug!....car justs turns over and over and and when I stop all I get is several coughs from carburator and gas blown out??? could it be I'm just not getting the timing down right???

09-13-2010, 12:23 PM	#15
James Rogers Senior Member Join Date: May 2010 Location: Asheville,NC Posts: 3,104	Re: Car won't start! Does the rotor button turn when the motor turns? Could you have a stripped timing gear or sheared distributor drive?

09-13-2010, 12:35 PM	#16
Tom Wesenberg Senior Member Join Date: May 2010 Location: Mpls, MN Posts: 27,582	Re: Car won't start! Check the rotor first as James said, and if it turns, then pull number one spark plug and put your finger over the hole while someone hand cranks the engine. This way you can find #1 TDC on the firing stroke. With the spark lever all the way up make sure the timing pin falls into the detent at TDC, then set the rotor to point at #1 contact in the cap and the points should just be ready to OPEN. Hold the distributor cam in this position and tighten the screw.

09-13-2010, 01:35 PM	#17
Larry Seemann Senior Member Join Date: May 2010 Location: Spokane, WA. Posts: 496	Re: Car won't start! possibly the pigtail wire from the upper plate to the lower distributor plate. Sometimes it doesn't take much movement for the wire or flag terminals to ground out. ie; it starts to start and you move the spark lever a little and it grounds out. __________________ Larry Seemann

09-13-2010, 06:52 PM	#18
bogdonj Senior Member Join Date: Aug 2010 Location: Walkerton, Ont. Canada Posts: 623	Re: Car won't start! alright tried again tonight and still no real success re-timed it again and everything checks out again. tried to start it and the same thing happens to it.... we almost got it going for a split second but then it coughs out of the carb and follows by gas spitting out. Tried again and blue smoke comes out the tail pipe.... the battery is now on the charger! try again tomorrow!

09-13-2010, 07:24 PM	#19
tuneman Senior Member Join Date: May 2010 Posts: 264	Re: Car won't start! Could the armored wire to the dist be in two far ? this could short the dist!!

09-13-2010, 09:30 PM	#20
Tom Wesenberg Senior Member Join Date: May 2010 Location: Mpls, MN Posts: 27,582	Re: Car won't start! While cranking hold the coil wire 1/4" from a head nut and see if you have a good blue spark while cranking. Key on, car in neutral, you can hold the wire with one hand while you grab the starter switch rod with the other hand and push it down. Easy to do without help.