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Old 01-27-2021, 02:45 PM   #1
1967 Camaro
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Default Brake Frustration

I don't like doing drum brakes...really don't. In the middle of a complete brake rebuild on the '57 Thunderbird. Fronts done, moving to the rear I discover the shoes are 1 3/4" wide compared to the kit replacements 2 1/2" wide! Ordered the "complete brake rebuild kit" from Ecklers (Macs) thinking it would cover everything. Now my attempts to call are resulting in endless time on hold or waiting for the "tech guy" to call me back. I guess I shouldn't take it for granted that vendors are detail oriented.
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Old 01-27-2021, 03:02 PM   #2
Dobie Gillis
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Default Re: Brake Frustration

Eckler's was your 1st mistake. Just sayin'...
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Old 01-27-2021, 03:13 PM   #3
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Default Re: Brake Frustration

Yep. Sometimes Macs stuff is, well not up to snuff.
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Old 01-27-2021, 03:37 PM   #4
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Default Re: Brake Frustration

Quote:
Originally Posted by 1967 Camaro View Post
... moving to the rear I discover the shoes are 1 3/4" wide compared to the kit replacements 2 1/2" wide! ...
Both of those sizes may be incorrect. The '55 & '56 Birds used 1 3/4" wide rear shoes.

I just called my two favorite '55/'57 T-Bird parts suppliers and the 'parts folks' at both resto shops said the rear shoes on a '57 Bird are two inches wide.

Also check for the proper 15/16th inch diameter rear wheel cylinders.
https://www.ctci.org/rear-brake-wheel-cylinders/

.

Last edited by dmsfrr; 01-27-2021 at 03:48 PM.
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Old 01-27-2021, 06:08 PM   #5
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Default Re: Brake Frustration

I've seen both 2" wide and 1 3/4" wide. I'm going with what I removed. Brake cylinder bores are correct
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Old 01-27-2021, 07:17 PM   #6
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Default Re: Brake Frustration

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Quote:
Originally Posted by dmsfrr View Post
Both of those sizes may be incorrect. The '55 & '56 Birds used 1 3/4" wide rear shoes.

I just called my two favorite '55/'57 T-Bird parts suppliers and the 'parts folks' at both resto shops said the rear shoes on a '57 Bird are two inches wide.

Also check for the proper 15/16th inch diameter rear wheel cylinders.
https://www.ctci.org/rear-brake-wheel-cylinders/

.
Shows both 2" & 2 1/2" here https://www.rockauto.com/en/catalog/...rake+shoe,1688
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Old 01-27-2021, 08:24 PM   #7
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Default Re: Brake Frustration

Look in the shop manual - that will tell you the width
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Old 01-27-2021, 08:51 PM   #8
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Default Re: Brake Frustration

A 1955 - 1956 T Bird Rear Brake Shoe is --- ONLY --- 11" x 1 3/4".....
A 1957 T Bird Rear Brake Shoe is --- ONLY --- 11" x 2".....

As someone points out above, Mac's / Eckler's is a Chineseum reproductions selling outfit --- and their "tech support team" --- Xiang Lee --- makes eggrolls.....

If you would like to deal with a knowledgeable, in the business auto parts MAN for 50 years now in 2021, with Quality parts --- you are welcome to call me ---
Craig --- 516 - 485 - 1935.... I have MOUNTAINS of N.O.S.and U.S.A. parts !!!!!

If I had a nickel (5¢ !!!) for every Rock Auto wrong listing, my pocket would not be fat enough for the
$ 25,000 + that I would have !!!!!
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Old 01-27-2021, 09:42 PM   #9
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Default Re: Brake Frustration

My 55 bird has a Dana 44 under it out of a truck. The axles and bearing confirmed that, I don't remember the brakes. The welding on the spring perches looked worse than after a 3 day weekend.

Lots of swaps went on over the years, and I wouldn't be surprised if it happened on the 9" in the 57's too. Many times you could buy a whole rearend out of a yard for less than a repair.
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Old 01-28-2021, 01:05 AM   #10
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Default Re: Brake Frustration

Quote:
Originally Posted by paul2748 View Post
Look in the shop manual - that will tell you the width
The chart on page 6-11 in my musty old '57 shop manual shows the lining width for the Rear axle of
'57 T-Birds as 1 & 3/4 inches for the Primary (front) shoe, and 2 inches for the Secondary (rear) shoe.

Not sure how that works out these days with parts that are sometimes more of a generic fit. ???
.

Last edited by dmsfrr; 01-28-2021 at 02:40 PM.
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Old 01-28-2021, 08:56 AM   #11
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Default Re: Brake Frustration

Quote:
Originally Posted by mobileparts View Post
A 1955 - 1956 T Bird Rear Brake Shoe is --- ONLY --- 11" x 1 3/4".....
A 1957 T Bird Rear Brake Shoe is --- ONLY --- 11" x 2".....

As someone points out above, Mac's / Eckler's is a Chineseum reproductions selling outfit --- and their "tech support team" --- Xiang Lee --- makes eggrolls.....

If you would like to deal with a knowledgeable, in the business auto parts MAN for 50 years now in 2021, with Quality parts --- you are welcome to call me ---
Craig --- 516 - 485 - 1935.... I have MOUNTAINS of N.O.S.and U.S.A. parts !!!!!

If I had a nickel (5¢ !!!) for every Rock Auto wrong listing, my pocket would not be fat enough for the
$ 25,000 + that I would have !!!!!

I am hunting a set of wheels for a 1957 thunderbird, can you help a fellow out ?
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Old 01-28-2021, 12:42 PM   #12
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Default Re: Brake Frustration

Quote:
Originally Posted by Patrick brophy View Post
I am hunting a set of wheels for a 1957 thunderbird, can you help a fellow out ?

Sent you a PM about wheels. Don't know if you'll be able to respond with so few posts.
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Old 01-29-2021, 10:31 AM   #13
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Default Re: Brake Frustration

Got your PM,Could not reply,but I need 14 inch wheels.
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Old 01-30-2021, 01:16 AM   #14
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Unhappy Re: Brake Frustration

Quote:
Originally Posted by Patrick brophy View Post

I am hunting a set of wheels for a 1957 thunderbird, can you help a fellow out ?



You are talking about a one year production -

B7S 1015-A 14in X 5in

Going to be hard to find and $$$ if you do.

Maybe start @ CTGI and/or CASCO?

!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

ADDENDUM (Fr) -

HILL'S RESTORATIONS seems to have take-offs (used) occasionally and CASCO - NPD has repros available.

Don't get tricked as these (originals) are unique.
Attached Images
File Type: jpg WHHEL - 1955-57 BIRD - HILLS RESTO.JPG (45.1 KB, 23 views)
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Last edited by KULTULZ; 01-30-2021 at 07:28 AM. Reason: LEARN SOMETHING NEW EVERYDAY
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Old 01-30-2021, 09:09 AM   #15
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Default Re: Brake Frustration

Quote:
Originally Posted by KULTULZ View Post


You are talking about a one year production -

B7S 1015-A 14in X 5in

Going to be hard to find and $$$ if you do.

Maybe start @ CTGI and/or CASCO?

!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

ADDENDUM (Fr) -

HILL'S RESTORATIONS seems to have take-offs (used) occasionally and CASCO - NPD has repros available.

Don't get tricked as these (originals) are unique.
I have inquired with Hills,they have a waiting list.

I have called several venders.One told me to hold on and he would look on the shelve next to the Hens teeth. He came back on the line and chuckled and said, nope still out of both.

I have a set of wheels on it now that came off a 1969 Mach 1. There has to be a spacer on both of the front trims or they will rub on the ball joint housing.

I will keep looking.I am getting ready to paint the car,wheel are the next step.Thanks KULTULZ
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Old 01-30-2021, 11:23 AM   #16
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Patrick brophy View Post

I have inquired with Hills,they have a waiting list.

I have called several venders.One told me to hold on and he would look on the shelve next to the Hens teeth. He came back on the line and chuckled and said, nope still out of both.

I have a set of wheels on it now that came off a 1969 Mach 1. There has to be a spacer on both of the front trims or they will rub on the ball joint housing.

I will keep looking.I am getting ready to paint the car,wheel are the next step.

Thanks KULTULZ
Maybe contact NPD and/or CASCO. They supposedly have repros but I don't know how close. Originals were riveted and the FED outlawed that and they had to be welded afterwards. Don't know how far you want to go with it.


Are the MACH I wheels styled steel or plain? It used both 14in and 15in depending on how far you went with the power-train/trim level. They are deep offset. Some were 7" wide.


GOOD LUCK with it!
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Old 01-30-2021, 04:29 PM   #17
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Default Re: Brake Frustration

Quote:
Originally Posted by Patrick brophy View Post
I am hunting a set of wheels for a 1957 thunderbird, can you help a fellow out ?
Are you looking for 'factory original' wheels for a '57 T-Bird, or reproductions? The off-set & backspace options are very limited for clearing the ball joints in the front (photo 1) and fender skirts in the rear. Especially if the rear suspension needs all new bushings for the leaf springs, along with re-arched or replacement leaf springs.

Some wheel info at this link...
https://www.ctci.org/wheel-info-1957/
"1957 Thunderbirds 14″ X 5″ Kelsey Hayes (K.H.) wheels, no slots, no rivets and welded centers, used with 14″ X 7.50 tires. The 14″ X 5″ KH wheel and 14″ X 7.50 tires wheels were use on 1957 Thunderbirds to enhance ball joint & skirt clearance."
Attached Images
File Type: jpg Ed's tire.jpg (50.9 KB, 7 views)
File Type: jpg Back Spacing offset.jpg (27.5 KB, 7 views)

Last edited by dmsfrr; 01-30-2021 at 05:13 PM.
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Old 01-30-2021, 07:59 PM   #18
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Default Re: Brake Frustration

Quote:
Originally Posted by dmsfrr View Post
Are you looking for 'factory original' wheels for a '57 T-Bird, or reproductions? The off-set & backspace options are very limited for clearing the ball joints in the front (photo 1) and fender skirts in the rear. Especially if the rear suspension needs all new bushings for the leaf springs, along with re-arched or replacement leaf springs.

Some wheel info at this link...
https://www.ctci.org/wheel-info-1957/
"1957 Thunderbirds 14″ X 5″ Kelsey Hayes (K.H.) wheels, no slots, no rivets and welded centers, used with 14″ X 7.50 tires. The 14″ X 5″ KH wheel and 14″ X 7.50 tires wheels were use on 1957 Thunderbirds to enhance ball joint & skirt clearance."
Thanks dmsfrr,

I have replaced both the front and rear bushing when I painted the frame.

Regardless, I still need the 14x5 wheel.

I am not sure what the difference would be between the repro and the factory, besides the dollar amount when buying them.
I am sure there are some reproduction stuff out there that you don't want to buy,I am just not aware of who, and where they are.

I am going for my lungs with this restoration, I don't want to cut corners on a few wheels. I did put disc brakes on the car and was hoping that the disc had moved the wheels out just enough. It did not.
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Old 01-30-2021, 08:38 PM   #19
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Default Re: Brake Frustration

Quote:
Originally Posted by Patrick brophy View Post
Thanks dmsfrr,

I have replaced both the front and rear bushing when I painted the frame.

Regardless, I still need the 14x5 wheel.

I am not sure what the difference would be between the repro and the factory, besides the dollar amount when buying them.
I am sure there are some reproduction stuff out there that you don't want to buy,I am just not aware of who, and where they are.

I am going for my lungs with this restoration, I don't want to cut corners on a few wheels. I did put disc brakes on the car and was hoping that the disc had moved the wheels out just enough. It did not.
Rubber bushings? I'm assuming you also replaced the ones in the rear spring hanger shackles to the frame. Those are at least as important as the ones in the eyelets inside the springs, if not more so, to help prevent side-to-side movement of the axle and tires rubbing on the skirts.

"not sure what the difference would be between the repro and the factory" The reproduction wheels are not 100% exact copies of the limited run originals. They're a bit more generic so they'll fit a wider range of cars and have been updated with required safety improvements over the years.

With disc brakes now on the car it may be possible original '57 wheels will not fit over the calipers.
Many disc brake conversion kits are advertised to fit '55 / '57 T-Birds. But depending on their source, the fine print sometimes excludes the factory original 14 inch wheels on 57's. You may be limited to reproduction style '57 wheels or even 15 inch wheels, depending on the brand of kit you installed.
If you purchased the disc brake kit from a T-Bird vendor that also uses them in their in-house restoration shop they should be able to give you more complete information.

If you know anyone near you with original wheels & (new) tires on their '57 T-Bird ask if you can borrow one or two for a couple hours to try them on the front of your car and see if they fit.
.

Last edited by dmsfrr; 02-01-2021 at 12:01 AM.
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Old 01-31-2021, 03:09 AM   #20
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Default Re: Brake Frustration

If there was a disc brake upgrade, the OEM wheels will not work without spacers and depending on caliper size may require a 15" wheel.

I would go to the repro vendors and get the specs. You can also have a steel wheel custom made. Save the money and aggravation unless you come across a set for a future dedicated restoration $$$.

Which brake kit did you use? Is this a dedicated resto? If not, OEM wheels are not needed IMO. Also, the OEM KH wheels are not vented for disc, another consideration.
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