Sludge in newly rebuilt 8BA

[bbrust]

My 8BA is oozing sludge from the heads. The leak is mainly on the passenger side but there's also some on the driver's side. The leak is a black crusty substance (oil and water?). The engine was rebuilt about 15 months ago and sat until last month. I got it started without coolant and everything was okay. I then filled it with vinegar to clean out the water passages and ran it in the garage until it warmed up. I did this a few times and found out the heater control valve leaked bad.
I was out of town for 4 days and the picture below shows what I found today. When the engine was rebuilt, it needed 1 sleeve but no cracks were found. The original heads were beyond repair so I used Mercury heads that were magnafluxed. As I recall, the block was milled but I don't remember how much. I used a Fel Pro gasket set and used a copper gasket spray on the head gaskets (not copper). The intake manifold is an aluminum Edelbrock 4 barrel and the carb is a manual choke Holley 390 cfm installed backward (for the linkage). All head and intake bolts are new and the torqued is correct. There is no water in the oil.
I just removed one of the heads. Picture below. Since it first started last week, it's run maybe for a total of 10-15 minutes.

Just need some ideas about what's happening. I have a PCV in place of the draft tube. The PCV hose runs to the carb but I just noticed that it's kinked a little. Could it be a pressure buildup that's causing this?
Thanks, Bob

[GreenMonster48]

I think maybe something reacted with the vinegar, like the gasket sealant reacted to the acid in the vinegar? Just a wild guess

[41LjH]

when you did the rebuild did you remove the core plugs in the crank and clean things out? My 8BA has the same intake and carb with an electric choke, but I left the draft tube in place. No problems so far. PM me if you want me to check anything on my engine for you. Good luck.

[BillM]

If you used straight vinegar and it was in there for a while it may have seeped through the head gaskets and collected on the surface between the manifold and the heads. I had this happen. I would clean up everything and flush it real good after the heads are back on and re torqued a few times.

[Ken/Alabama]

Wouldnt it be a good idea to run some water mixed with baking soda through it to neutralize the acid from the vinegar ?

[cmbrucew]

Sponsored Links (Register now to hide all advertisements)

The core is still not clean. I would run it a week or so with the vineagar, then neutralize it.
Clean and reuse the headgasket with Permatex #2.

Bruce

Works good
Lasts long time

[bbrust]

Thanks for all of the replies. The vinegar was in the engine for about a week. Some leaked out from the leaky heater control valve and I was surprised when I took the radiator cap off yesterday that there was still some pressure that escaped when the cap was loosened.

As many of you suggested, I'll clean it up and put the heads back on. The vinegar made such a mess that I hesitate to use it again but I agree that the passages need more cleaning. The car is not on the road yet so any running of the engine is in the garage.
Thanks again, Bob

[BillM]

Here's a link to a post on the HAMB recommending Cascade dishwashing tablets: http://www.jalopyjournal.com/forum/s...ade+dishwasher

[Straightpipes]

I've had a bunch of Ford V8s but never used any vinegar. Must be the block wasn't cleaned when it was rebuilt. When you get the heads off I would pull the hoses off and give the block a good flushing. Fasten a piece of copper tubing onto your hose and get down in there real good. Anyway, good luck with it.

[rotorwrench]

Best gaskets & retorque after warmed up. Copper coat is good stuff. If all else fails, Bar's Leaks will seal it up.

[1931 flamingo]

Curious, why not copper gaskets??
Paul in CT

[bbrust]

I also was wondering about copper gaskets. Aren't the copper gaskets a little thicker which might help seal the heads better? The number 4 cylinder wall had a slight buildup where a ridge might normally be. I had to use a little sand paper to clean it off. This seemed strange since the vinegar had only been in the engine for a week.
Thanks, Bob

[Cecil/WV]

For my experience, I have found composite gaskets seal better.

[A bones]

Just a quick caution to anyone who thinks starting a motor without coolant/water is OK. Think about the smallest bits of metal in an engine, Rings. Now think about the source of heat, Combustion chamber. Last think about a critical factor in any motor's performance, Cylinder pressure..... A major magazine (a few years ago, I can't recall which) ran tests which showed that very quickly ring material welds to the cylinder wall if there is nothing to carry the heat away from the chamber. Loss of ring material means lack of sealing ability. Et cetera et cetera.

[Ronnie]

In order to get the rings to fail very early on a start due to scuffing the film of oil between the rings and the cylinder walls would have to break down due to heat to give a condition known as bare metal to metal contact.The length of time for this to happen could be critical for this to happen.A start for short period of time may not constitute the oil on the cylinder wall to break down.The condition will happen but not instantly,it will take time.This doesn't lead to starting an engine without coolant as a recommended procedure.The poster didn't state the length of time it ran.Many engines have been started without coolant and run ok.I don't do it.What does it accomplish I'm at a loss to come up with a valid reason.If it started ok you would have to shut it off and put in coolant anyway so what have you saved? What are you looking for damned if I know.

R

[Mike51Merc]

I don't think a short run without coolant is harmful. Air cooled engines run their entire lives without liquid coolant. Yes, I know ring tolerances are looser for air cooled engines, but I still think a few minutes shouldn't be a problem.

I bought a set of head studs (I forget the brand) and the install instructions called for starting and warming the dry engine, letting it cool, and then retorqueing the studs before adding coolant.

As for the sludge, the topside of flathead engines (the heads and the intake manifold) have no oil passages. The only way for oil to leak up there is a huge amount of crankcase pressure blowing oil vapor and splash through the valley, so I don't believe it is oil sludge.

It looks to me like your intake manifold gasket is disintegrating and turning to paste. Maybe the vinegar ate it.

I can't believe anyone could fill their engine with vinegar. How can you stand the smell?

[bbrust]

I filled the engine with vinegar at the recommendation of some of the flathead sites that I visit including the Ford Barn. The smell wasn't bad but the leak from the heater control valve made my floor look like a war zone.

[David J]

I did this to a 33 that had not run in over 50 years & had been drained . I put new pistons in it so it had new - NOS composite Ford head gaskets . it started leakin in several places & got the sludgy yuck on it by gasket areas - NOT THE HEADS though . Vinegar poisioning is the name I applied to it in my case . Sounds like you found it also . Do you really want to re-use a head gasket that is corroding inside ? PS it did indeed clean the block so if I EVER do the vinegar thing again it will be in a motor that needs to come apart anyway . Changing out the motor mount gaskets on a complete car is something I can do without !

Originally Posted by bbrust

I filled the engine with vinegar at the recommendation of some of the flathead sites that I visit including the Ford Barn.

[bbrust]

As far as I'm concerned, vinegar poisoning is a perfect description. And no, I won't reuse the head gaskets. Bob