Henry and Edsel

[Dave Mellor NJ]

20 Millionth Ford

[mercman from oz]

Henry & Edsel Ford with the 20 Millionth Ford, a 1931 Model A - Dave Mellor NJ

[Marshall V. Daut]

Looking at the engine, Edsel is probably saying to Henry: "Father, why didn't we put a 6.0:1 head on this thing instead of a wimpy 4.2??? Then people in the next century wouldn't have to buy aftermarket heads!"
Marshall

[8EL]

Edsel had an eye for styling, making lines and curves that flowed together that complemented the cars appearance. The model A was his styling design that he never received the credit he should have for. Just look at the difference between the model T, which was basically a box (albeit quite utilitarian) set on a frame, and the little model A coupe or roadsters.

They say "Henry made a lady ot of Lizzie" it was really Edsel who styled the new car.

[ModelA29]

35 years later - Grandson Henry and great grandson Edsel at LeMans 1966 for Ford's first win there.

[Gene F]

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I wonder if that is the "enforcer" in the phot to the right of Edsel?

[Marshall V. Daut]

Harry Bennett?
M.

[Gene F]

Post #3, and #4: I tell people that are not antique car people (even muscle car guys) that the T was a great car that changed the way we live. However, they are not really usable today for even errands. They are just too primative. The A you can actually drive and use with very few improvements without using the car up every time you take it out of the garage.

T:
47MPH top speed
two wheel brakes at best
not all had speedometers
suspension and steering proved to be very shakey - you have to hold on to the thing all the time.
electric starter and electric headlights didn't come along till late in the run
the ignition coils could be troublesome

Don't get me wrong, the T was a great car. It changed the world. It was the first little car that really worked, and it was affordable.

[Gene F]

Originally Posted by Marshall V. Daut

Harry Bennett?
M.

Maybe. That's what I was wondering.

[Marshall V. Daut]

I probably wouldn't have normally posted my comment about an increased compression head being suggested by Edsel, but lately on this website, questions about higher compression heads have been running rampant. It therefore seemed apropos to post my "witticism" since this subject is clearly preying on readers' minds.
For those of you with access to Murray Fahnestock articles about Model A's, he wrote an excellent treatise about why Ford decided to use a lower compression head on his new car in late 1927 when other contemporary makes' heads were sometimes almost DOUBLE that. 'Makes for interesting reading and gives an insight into Henry's opinion of his buyers. Say what you will about old Hank, but he sure knew his people and what they wanted!
Marshall

[Marshall V. Daut]

"Harry Bennett?"
"Maybe. That's what I was wondering."

Hmmmm.... I don't see a pistol holster bulging beneath his coat. Maybe it isn't Mr. Sunshine and Lollipoos Harry Bennett after all?
M.

[ModelA29]

Harry Bennett served as the head of the Ford Motor Company Service Department for over two decades, beginning in 1921. Bennett was 5 feet 6 inches and in great physical shape due to his years of boxing and service in the Navy. Legend traces Bennett's relationship to Ford Motor Company to a 1916 street brawl in New York City. At the time, Bennett, 24, was a sailor and was just off his ship. He was saved from being thrown into jail by an acquaintance of Henry Ford, Bernie Ghers, who happened to witness the fight while on his way to a meeting with Ford. Ghers, a Hearst newspaper columnist who had credibility with the police, convinced them that Bennett was not at fault, so they released Bennett without charges. On the spur of the moment, Ghers decided to take Bennett along with him to see Ford. At the meeting, Ford was more interested in Bennett's prowess in the street fight than the business at hand, and he offered Bennett a security job at the Rouge plant. Bennett's interview for the job was reported to be short. He was asked only one question by Ford as to his capabilities. "Can you shoot?" asked Henry. He could.


Same dour look. He's also looking where a threat could come from not at Henry which good security guys do. Way back in the mid 70s our Cobra Club put on an event for the local Ford Dealers. Edsel attended with his 3 security guards - 2 guards and a driver. They alternated throughout the day but 2 were always with Edsel and 1 with the car.


Interesting read on his retirement time - https://www.desertsun.com/story/life...gs/8688509002/


https://www.californiadesertart.com/...harry-bennett/

[rotorwrench]

That was P E "Ed" Martin in the first photo. He was in charge of plant supervision for Ford. He and Charles Sorensen were Ford's main operators under Edsel who was the President and chief designer. Henry made Edsel the president but he was still the boss until 1944. Hank The Deuce was in charge after that. The first thing he did was to get rid of Harry Bennett

Harry Bennett was the head of the Service Department which was more or less head of Security for the Rouge plant. Henry had a dark side to his personality and Harry stoked that situation. The rest of the family didn't like or trust him so he had to go.

[Gene F]

Originally Posted by ModelA29

Harry Bennett served as the head of the Ford Motor Company Service Department for over two decades, beginning in 1921. Bennett was 5 feet 6 inches and in great physical shape due to his years of boxing and service in the Navy. Legend traces Bennett's relationship to Ford Motor Company to a 1916 street brawl in New York City. At the time, Bennett, 24, was a sailor and was just off his ship. He was saved from being thrown into jail by an acquaintance of Henry Ford, Bernie Ghers, who happened to witness the fight while on his way to a meeting with Ford. Ghers, a Hearst newspaper columnist who had credibility with the police, convinced them that Bennett was not at fault, so they released Bennett without charges. On the spur of the moment, Ghers decided to take Bennett along with him to see Ford. At the meeting, Ford was more interested in Bennett's prowess in the street fight than the business at hand, and he offered Bennett a security job at the Rouge plant. Bennett's interview for the job was reported to be short. He was asked only one question by Ford as to his capabilities. "Can you shoot?" asked Henry. He could.


Same dour look. He's also looking where a threat could come from not at Henry which good security guys do. Way back in the mid 70s our Cobra Club put on an event for the local Ford Dealers. Edsel attended with his 3 security guards - 2 guards and a driver. They alternated throughout the day but 2 were always with Edsel and 1 with the car.


Interesting read on his retirement time - https://www.desertsun.com/story/life...gs/8688509002/


https://www.californiadesertart.com/...harry-bennett/

Interesting info. Thanks

[Herb Concord Ca]

One of Henry Ford II first tasks was to oust Harry Bennett. He was long gone by 1966.
I would like to know the names of the other folks in the picture, anyone know?

[8EL]

Originally Posted by Gene F

Post #3, and #4: I tell people that are not antique car people (even muscle car guys) that the T was a great car that changed the way we live. However, they are not really usable today for even errands. They are just too primative. The A you can actually drive and use with very few improvements without using the car up every time you take it out of the garage.

T:
47MPH top speed
two wheel brakes at best
not all had speedometers
suspension and steering proved to be very shakey - you have to hold on to the thing all the time.
electric starter and electric headlights didn't come along till late in the run
the ignition coils could be troublesome

Don't get me wrong, the T was a great car. It changed the world. It was the first little car that really worked, and it was affordable.

Yes I know the difference between the two, had a T with a Ruckstell two speed rear end that gave it 4 speeds. Felt like it was going 90 when you wound her up. The T was a very tough simple and affordable car, that is what made it successful, but Henry hung on to it way too long. The spark it had was actually quite hot I always thought. Had mine start more than once by just turning the key on to battery.

But the A was a much better car all around. Today with hydraulic brakes and winkers (a six volt alternator is nice to have also over the original generator) it is fairly safe to run on secondary roads. The T you have to be anticipating any problem or situation constantly to stay out of trouble it seems.

[8EL]

Originally Posted by Marshall V. Daut

Harry Bennett?
M.

Bennett was a thug, Certainly not one of Edsel's favorite people. Sorensen "Cast Iron Charley" had little use for him either as I recall.....

[Model "A" Fords]

Originally Posted by 8EL

Edsel had an eye for styling, making lines and curves that flowed together that complemented the cars appearance. The model A was his styling design that he never received the credit he should have for. Just look at the difference between the model T, which was basically a box (albeit quite utilitarian) set on a frame, and the little model A coupe or roadsters.

They say "Henry made a lady ot of Lizzie" it was really Edsel who styled the
new car.

IMHO, Henry always seemed to get the credit for everything Ford. The truth is if it wasn't for Henry, the model A would have been built years earlier. I have always attributed the Model A Ford to Edsel and wish he could have gained that recognition while he was alive. Henry never made it easy for his son and I don't think he appreciated Edsel until after his death.

[8EL]

Originally Posted by Model "A" Fords

IMHO, Henry always seemed to get the credit for everything Ford. The truth is if it wasn't for Henry, the model A would have been built years earlier. I have always attributed the Model A Ford to Edsel and wish he could have gained that recognition while he was alive. Henry never made it easy for his son and I don't think he appreciated Edsel until after his death.

Without a doubt it would have been, Edsel pointing out in the early 20s, how the competition (Chevrolet) was producing a superior car to his beloved Model T, was taken as blasphemy by Henry. The Model A had Edsel written all over it, and with its sales success Henry claimed it for himself. Did the same thing with Sorensen's success at casting the V8 block with a single casting. This was quite a feat for the day, while the V design engine was not a new configuration, prior to Ford's offering, they were assembled out of many different castings. This made them impractical for the lower price field from an economics standpoint.

Henry was closer to Bennett than Edsel. I always thought to my self, if I would have been in Edsel's shoes, I would have been explaining that my name was Ford, not his.... And whatever convincing it would have required for him to understand this, being a lead pipe or blunderbuss, or thugs of my own, then so be it. The duce would have none of his bullshit when he got the reins, and made it number one priority to rid Ford Motor Company of this little thug, which he did. What I have read about Edsel, he was a quiet, polite man, and thugs like Bennett walked all over him, with his Father's approval...Henry was a great man, did a lot of good for the world, but missed it terribly as a Father....Of course my humble opinion....

[Bob Bidonde]

This slide compares engines in The Big Three of 1931.