I am ignorant and proud of it!

[tommyleea]

OK..I just can't connect my grounded battery cable to the positive post of my battery. Physically I can, but not mentally. So, I need to make my 55 F100 6 volt a negative ground system. I don't have a radio or heater. I have a light for the gen and oil. I know I need to change the leads on the coil, and probably polarize the gen/reg. Is there anything else I need to change, to make this work? Any gauges, how about the horn? Thanks for any and all help.

[Dobie Gillis]

Since you have an idiot light instead of an ammeter you're good to go with what you listed. If you had an ammeter you'd need to reverse the direction the wire for it goes though the loop on the back so it won't indicate backward.

[tommyleea]

Originally Posted by Dobie Gillis

Since you have an idiot light instead of an ammeter you're good to go with what you listed. If you had an ammeter you'd need to reverse the direction the wire for it goes though the loop on the back so it won't indicate backward.

Idiot light..Hmmmm. Thanks for the info...

[dmsfrr]

Yes check the leads on the coil. The Red w/ Green stripe wire from the "C" terminal of the ignition switch should attach to the "+" or "Ign" terminal of the coil, and the "-" or "Dist" terminal will connect to the points in the distributor.

A working 6v heater fan would not need any wiring changes.
The gauges, horn and horn relay should not be affected if they were working well before.
IF the truck had an oem clock the polarity tab on the back would need to change.

to Polarize the Generator
* When the wiring job is done, before you start the engine, remove the Field wire from the voltage regulator and very briefly touch it to the Battery terminal of the voltage regulator (you will get a small spark) then reconnect the Field wire to it’s position on the voltage regulator. *
.

[tommyleea]

Originally Posted by dmsfrr

Yes check the leads on the coil. The Red w/ Green stripe wire from the "C" terminal of the ignition switch should attach to the "+" or "Ign" terminal of the coil, and the "-" or "Dist" terminal will connect to the points in the distributor.

A working 6v heater fan would not need any wiring changes.
The gauges, horn and horn relay should not be affected if they were working well before.
IF the truck had an oem clock the polarity tab on the back would need to change.

to Polarize the Generator
* When the wiring job is done, before you start the engine, remove the Field wire from the voltage regulator and very briefly touch it to the Battery terminal of the voltage regulator (you will get a small spark) then reconnect the Field wire to it’s position on the voltage regulator. *
.

Thanks..I was wondering about the polarize procedure.

[rotorwrench]

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Running positive ground gave the low 6-volt system a small advantage due to direction of electron flow. With 12-volts the advantage is negligible. Your negative ground system will likely work OK but the 6-volt systems needed all the help they could get. As connections get corroded or dirty you will notice it quicker.

[dmsfrr]

Originally Posted by rotorwrench

... the 6-volt systems needed all the help they could get. ...

There are two battery cables and a cable from the starter solenoid to the starter.
If it hasn't been mentioned before, they need to be large "0" or "1" gauge cables, not the cheaper generic 4 or 6 gauge cables from the corner parts store used in newer 12v cars. (photo)
The smaller ones can't deliver the power needed to turn the engine on 6 volts.
.

[40 Deluxe]

Originally Posted by tommyleea

OK..I just can't connect my grounded battery cable to the positive post of my battery. Physically I can, but not mentally. So, I need to make my 55 F100 6 volt a negative ground system. I don't have a radio or heater. I have a light for the gen and oil. I know I need to change the leads on the coil, and probably polarize the gen/reg. Is there anything else I need to change, to make this work? Any gauges, how about the horn? Thanks for any and all help.

Just curious: Why the change to negative ground, when millions of Fords (and many others) ran just fine with positive ground?

[tommyleea]

Originally Posted by 40 Deluxe

Just curious: Why the change to negative ground, when millions of Fords (and many others) ran just fine with positive ground?

Refer to title of thread............................................ ......................

[packrat5]

It's been way to many years, but, Ford was not the only car to run positive ground. There was also I believe, a couple of positive ground 12 volt cars also. Very difficult for a young kid to remember. My boss helped out by telling me the different sizes of the terminals. They don't fit when reversed.

[tommyleea]

Originally Posted by packrat5

It's been way to many years, but, Ford was not the only car to run positive ground. There was also I believe, a couple of positive ground 12 volt cars also. Very difficult for a young kid to remember. My boss helped out by telling me the different sizes of the terminals. They don't fit when reversed.

Agree..I drove the positive ground vehicles as a kid, but didn't think anything about it. Didn't know better I guess. And, originally the cables wouldn't fit, but probably not the case now, at least not with mine..If my current vehicle would have been up and running, I wouldn't think of changing it around. But, since now I am messing with the wiring and cables, it makes me think too much, and I can't get myself to connect the positive cable to a ground.

[54vicky]

try hypnosis

[40 Deluxe]

Originally Posted by tommyleea

Agree..I drove the positive ground vehicles as a kid, but didn't think anything about it. Didn't know better I guess. And, originally the cables wouldn't fit, but probably not the case now, at least not with mine..If my current vehicle would have been up and running, I wouldn't think of changing it around. But, since now I am messing with the wiring and cables, it makes me think too much, and I can't get myself to connect the positive cable to a ground.

There are two theories on which direction electricity flows; current theory and electron theory (they are opposite). Here is some research that may help: "Conventional current (theory) assumes that current flows out of the positive terminal, through the circuit and into the negative terminal of the source. This was the convention chosen during the discovery of electricity. They were wrong!"
"Electron Flow is what actually happens and electrons flow out of the negative terminal, through the circuit and into the positive terminal of the source."
So you see, connecting the positive cable to ground does make sense!
Here's another quote from the same source: "In fact, it makes no difference which way current is flowing as long as it is used consistently. The direction of current flow does not affect what the current does."
Of course, some electrical devices are polarity sensitive, so this has to be taken into account (which Ford and the others did when they designed their
positive ground systems). So I say don't mess with success!
Hope this helps!

[tommyleea]

Originally Posted by 54vicky

try hypnosis

Positive or negative?

[tommyleea]

Originally Posted by 40 Deluxe

There are two theories on which direction electricity flows; current theory and electron theory (they are opposite). Here is some research that may help: "Conventional current (theory) assumes that current flows out of the positive terminal, through the circuit and into the negative terminal of the source. This was the convention chosen during the discovery of electricity. They were wrong!"
"Electron Flow is what actually happens and electrons flow out of the negative terminal, through the circuit and into the positive terminal of the source."
So you see, connecting the positive cable to ground does make sense!
Here's another quote from the same source: "In fact, it makes no difference which way current is flowing as long as it is used consistently. The direction of current flow does not affect what the current does."
Of course, some electrical devices are polarity sensitive, so this has to be taken into account (which Ford and the others did when they designed their
positive ground systems). So I say don't mess with success!
Hope this helps!

Thanks..I am rethinking the situation. I have a 53 Ford Ranchwagon that I have to make the same decision about. There are some wires on both cars, that look to me like they were shorted to ground, and the coating was burned off. Maybe the coating just peeled off because of age, but it doesn't look that way. I feel that if I work out the issue with what I am comfortable with (negative ground), I might have more success. Cheers and thanks..

[dmsfrr]

Originally Posted by tommyleea

... There are some wires on both cars, that look to me like they were shorted to ground, and the coating was burned off. Maybe the coating just peeled off because of age, but it doesn't look that way. ...

There are ground wires in a few places. I think until '57 the battery was grounded to the block or head. It being the shortest/least resistance ground path back to the battery from the starter.
Depending on the vehicle model there are other ground wire connections between the: battery & body, engine & body, engine & frame, some body panels, etc.
They may have been flat braided or large-ish gauge round twisted wires. Some were insulated others were not. They most often had round or lug terminals at the ends because they were fastened on with bolts or screws and didn't connect to other circuits.

This 'as found' example firewall to engine block ground wire may have originally been insulated. Small bits of crunchy plastic remained and the copper wire is noticeably discolored and feels brittle, likely from being seriously overheated.
Possibly due to: a very bad short, its small diameter and/or jump starting a stubborn car with the Ground jumper cable connected to the body instead of the Ground battery cable.
(nearly all the starter power would have tried to go thru it, compare to the previous photo of "0" gauge starter/battery cable size wire)

[40 Deluxe]

Originally Posted by tommyleea

Thanks..I am rethinking the situation. I have a 53 Ford Ranchwagon that I have to make the same decision about. There are some wires on both cars, that look to me like they were shorted to ground, and the coating was burned off. Maybe the coating just peeled off because of age, but it doesn't look that way. I feel that if I work out the issue with what I am comfortable with (negative ground), I might have more success. Cheers and thanks..

Perhaps you're overthinking the situation. From what you said, I'm assuming that both your rigs are missing some (or most) of the wires. If they're just bare or burnt, just replace them one at a time. Don't reposition them, keep them going to the same terminals as the old ones.
Both positive ground and negative ground systems are wired the same. There is a 'hot ' wire carrying current from the battery to each device (or it's switch) and a 'ground' wire going back to the battery to complete the circuit. Most often the device (radio, heater motor, lights, etc.) is grounded to the frame or body, then a ground strap (or cable) runs from the firewall, frame, or engine to the battery to complete the circuit.
It may help to ignore polarity while you're doing the rewire. Just think "hot" and "ground". Label the cable that goes from the battery to the starter solenoid as "Hot" and the cable that goes from the battery to the firewall, etc. as "Ground". Tape up the ends of the cables so you can't tell which is "positive" and which is "negative". Then do your repairs as you see fit. If it helps to pretend you have a negative ground system, that's fine. It makes no difference to how the repairs are done. Find a factory wiring diagram and follow it if needed. When you're done and ready to test, untape the cables and connect the one you labeled "Hot" to the negative battery post. Remember, current flows out from the negative battery post to the lights, horn, etc. then back to the positive battery post anyway, so a positive ground system is not really "backwards".

[tommyleea]

Originally Posted by dmsfrr

There are ground wires in a few places. I think until '57 the battery was grounded to the block or head. It being the shortest/least resistance ground path back to the battery from the starter.
Depending on the vehicle model there are other ground wire connections between the: battery & body, engine & body, engine & frame, some body panels, etc.
They may have been flat braided or large-ish gauge round twisted wires. Some were insulated others were not. They most often had round or lug terminals at the ends because they were fastened on with bolts or screws and didn't connect to other circuits.

This 'as found' example firewall to engine block ground wire may have originally been insulated. Small bits of crunchy plastic remained and the copper wire is noticeably discolored and feels brittle, likely from being seriously overheated.
Possibly due to: a very bad short, its small diameter and/or jump starting a stubborn car with the Ground jumper cable connected to the body instead of the Ground battery cable.
(nearly all the starter power would have tried to go thru it, compare to the previous photo of "0" gauge starter/battery cable size wire)

My big cable from solenoid to starter is just like that (ranchwagon). Originally I was thinking since the cable comes from negative side of the battery it wouldn't matter if it was bare. That what has me worried about going down the positive ground path. After looking closer it appears to have overheated. Why would that big cable get that hot? Anyway, that is my dilemma. Thanks

Originally Posted by 40 Deluxe

Perhaps you're overthinking the situation. From what you said, I'm assuming that both your rigs are missing some (or most) of the wires. If they're just bare or burnt, just replace them one at a time. Don't reposition them, keep them going to the same terminals as the old ones.
Both positive ground and negative ground systems are wired the same. There is a 'hot ' wire carrying current from the battery to each device (or it's switch) and a 'ground' wire going back to the battery to complete the circuit. Most often the device (radio, heater motor, lights, etc.) is grounded to the frame or body, then a ground strap (or cable) runs from the firewall, frame, or engine to the battery to complete the circuit.
It may help to ignore polarity while you're doing the rewire. Just think "hot" and "ground". Label the cable that goes from the battery to the starter solenoid as "Hot" and the cable that goes from the battery to the firewall, etc. as "Ground". Tape up the ends of the cables so you can't tell which is "positive" and which is "negative". Then do your repairs as you see fit. If it helps to pretend you have a negative ground system, that's fine. It makes no difference to how the repairs are done. Find a factory wiring diagram and follow it if needed. When you're done and ready to test, untape the cables and connect the one you labeled "Hot" to the negative battery post. Remember, current flows out from the negative battery post to the lights, horn, etc. then back to the positive battery post anyway, so a positive ground system is not really "backwards".

The old wiring is still there, but much of it to me seems to have overheated. I don't know what the wires are like inside the loom. That has me worried, and why I guess I would be more comfortable going conventional negative ground, so I don't mess it up. Thanks.

[Dobie Gillis]

The original wiring insulation is rubber with a cloth covering that is nearing 70 years old. The cloth covering disintegrates over time and the rubber cracks. Messing with it just makes matters worse because fixing one spot puts a strain on other spots so that you will be constantly chasing bare spots and possible shorts due to the conductors touching bare metal or each other. It's a fire waiting to happen. Best to bite the bullet and rewire the car with modern harnesses. JMO

[tommyleea]

Originally Posted by Dobie Gillis

The original wiring insulation is rubber with a cloth covering that is nearing 70 years old. The cloth covering disintegrates over time and the rubber cracks. Messing with it just makes matters worse because fixing one spot puts a strain on other spots so that you will be constantly chasing bare spots and possible shorts due to the conductors touching bare metal or each other. It's a fire waiting to happen. Best to bite the bullet and rewire the car with modern harnesses. JMO

Copy..Agree..Too scary the way it is. Thanks