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Old 01-21-2018, 03:23 PM   #1
Kevin in NJ
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Default The Restorer needs to fact check its articles!!!

So the article about the improving the improvement of using modern points needs some references and fact checking.

Original point contact brass or phospher bronze? Really??? How come all the Ford script new and well use points all have quality tungston on them? What about the pile of perfectly good used Standard ignition points I have in a jar with tungsten points?
Now the gyp points I have are some kind of silver grey color. They are obviously not a quality metal as they have oxidized.


Point float at 45 MPH with original points?? Let us see the data. That would mean a lot of A's are violating some rules running 65 MPH with original points.

What about that plate which is a just a stamped piece, how well does keep the points the center of the dist? Those V8 points are not always well aligned and need to be fixed. That orginals were fully adjustable in position. I measured a NOS plate on a slightly worn dist housing and know I have a couple of thou of play in the operational position. I have heard that the stamped unit for the V8 points is not that accurate. I have not actually measured one myself.

Then there is the idea that the new condensors are better. Sorry, not so much anymore. Go read in the mustang forums where they have problems with new Motorcraft units cause they are low bid china parts. We know that the burnout proof units from A&L just keep on working. I think anyone would be smart to run with that unit because of the low bid problem with the new V8 units. I should add I work as an electronics engineer and have replaced my fair share of bad caps. It does not cost a lot more to get a much higher rated capacitor that will last for a very long time. The unit on my brothers cars has been in operation for decades by now.

I realize it is difficult to get people writting, but they should not be letting anything go. Fact checked with references, not some guy shooting from the hip. Plus really how does this help with the basic function of the club?

I am pretty sure it is about preservation of the original car.

Why do we keep getting just wrong information about original parts and poorly written articles about things that do not actually improve the car. In fact, I probably could prove these parts reduce the reliablity of the car of I cared enough to buy the parts and compare.

I think it important that these articles need to be tempered by the fact there are likely thousands of cars out there running all original parts with no problems for decades. By reading the article you might come away thinking the points are a big problem for the cars. In reality is they are close to set and forget if you do them right (well yes you need to adjust time from time to time).

Some notes on the pictures. The first 3 are of the plate I put on my dist. It is a NOS Ford upper plate with NOS Ford script points. Kind of hard to see the tungsten in the pictures. What you need to notice is the hole in the middle of the plate. That hole is ground round for accuracy in location of the points and to ensure a flat surface. The "improved" upper plate is just stamped and the hole is not as accurately formed. Since it is not a good surface it will wear fast in service causing more variablity in the gap on the points as the plate moves. A great improvement!
The old dist is from my brothers car. That is the plate assembled by a 15 year old back in 1970 or so. Those are the same points that came with the car. It was too hard to see the manufacturer, but we could make out a circle on them. Yes, it is due for some lube. Well the car is kind of due for a proper restoration, but it still runs 60 MPH with no complants. Best hold on tight if he hits the brakes too.
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Old 01-21-2018, 03:32 PM   #2
duke36
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Default Re: The Restorer needs to fact check its articles!!!

Some of us may find it easier to adjust the original points gap with one screw
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Old 01-21-2018, 04:55 PM   #3
Ron in Quincy
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Default Re: The Restorer needs to fact check its articles!!!

I have a 30 Coupe with insert main and Rod bearings, 5.4 High Compression Head, A8 Clutch, 37 pound fly wheel, counter balanced flywheel, and full flow oil filter. A 354 rear end because of the additional horse power.

I am running a stock rebuilt distributor and rebuilt stock carburetor, did the rebuild myself, have about 1500 miles on the A with no problems.

Why should I change to a modified Distributor, electronic ignition, and other modern updates ?

Ron
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Old 01-21-2018, 06:11 PM   #4
Ron in Quincy
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Default Re: The Restorer needs to fact check its articles!!!

Forget to mention, my 30 Coupe is 6 Volt positive ground. The only original items replaced is the fan, with a new 2 blade and the pitman arm with a new short one from Snyder.

With everything else Stock its easy to work on and I would not hesitate to drive it across the USA.

Ron
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Old 01-21-2018, 06:49 PM   #5
Dick Steinkamp
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Default Re: The Restorer needs to fact check its articles!!!

Quote:
Originally Posted by Ron in Quincy View Post
I have a 30 Coupe with insert main and Rod bearings, 5.4 High Compression Head, A8 Clutch, 37 pound fly wheel, counter balanced flywheel, and full flow oil filter. A 354 rear end because of the additional horse power.

I am running a stock rebuilt distributor and rebuilt stock carburetor, did the rebuild myself, have about 1500 miles on the A with no problems.

Why should I change to a modified Distributor, electronic ignition, and other modern updates ?

Ron
I guess it's human nature, but it's kind of funny that the ONLY modifications anyone should make to their Model A...are the ones I'VE made.
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Old 01-21-2018, 07:05 PM   #6
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Default Re: The Restorer needs to fact check its articles!!!

I think the problem lies with people erroneously thinking that "newer is always better". What we need to remember is "If it's not broken, don't fix it!".
Also keep in mind the modern business model of producing a product as cheaply as possible to maximize short term profit. Top quality products can be made in any country in the world, but the U.S. businessman wants it at low bid, just good enough to sell. "Pride of workmanship?" What's that?
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Old 01-21-2018, 08:14 PM   #7
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Default Re: The Restorer needs to fact check its articles!!!

The modern style points are getting not's so modern anymore. I've always noticed we always try to out do "Old Henry" but when the dust all settles he had it figured out.
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Old 01-21-2018, 09:14 PM   #8
Rich in Tucson
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Default Re: The Restorer needs to fact check its articles!!!

I absolutely prefer the original setup and use it. But if you must repair a car that has the "modern" points and condenser, go to a real auto parts store (or you r favorite online source but not any of the Model A vendors) and ask for the Standard brand but be sure to ask for the "Blue Streak" version, not their cheaper versions. The wire on the condenser is blue, not black and not orange, and the points have an oiling pad for the rubbing block. If they don't list the Blue Streak version, go elsewhere to shop.
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Old 01-21-2018, 09:41 PM   #9
Drive Shaft Dave
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Default Re: The Restorer needs to fact check its articles!!!

Why would one want to make more work for themselves? Stay with the way Henry made it.
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Old 01-21-2018, 09:43 PM   #10
BRENT in 10-uh-C
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Default Re: The Restorer needs to fact check its articles!!!

Quote:
Originally Posted by Kevin in NJ View Post
So the article about the improving the improvement of using modern points needs some references and fact checking.

Original point contact brass or phospher bronze? Really??? How come all the Ford script new and well use points all have quality tungston on them? What about the pile of perfectly good used Standard ignition points I have in a jar with tungsten points?
Now the gyp points I have are some kind of silver grey color. They are obviously not a quality metal as they have oxidized.


Point float at 45 MPH with original points?? Let us see the data. That would mean a lot of A's are violating some rules running 65 MPH with original points.

What about that plate which is a just a stamped piece, how well does keep the points the center of the dist? Those V8 points are not always well aligned and need to be fixed. That orginals were fully adjustable in position. I measured a NOS plate on a slightly worn dist housing and know I have a couple of thou of play in the operational position. I have heard that the stamped unit for the V8 points is not that accurate. I have not actually measured one myself.

Then there is the idea that the new condensors are better. Sorry, not so much anymore. Go read in the mustang forums where they have problems with new Motorcraft units cause they are low bid china parts. We know that the burnout proof units from A&L just keep on working. I think anyone would be smart to run with that unit because of the low bid problem with the new V8 units. I should add I work as an electronics engineer and have replaced my fair share of bad caps. It does not cost a lot more to get a much higher rated capacitor that will last for a very long time. The unit on my brothers cars has been in operation for decades by now.

I realize it is difficult to get people writting, but they should not be letting anything go. Fact checked with references, not some guy shooting from the hip. Plus really how does this help with the basic function of the club?

I am pretty sure it is about preservation of the original car.

Why do we keep getting just wrong information about original parts and poorly written articles about things that do not actually improve the car. In fact, I probably could prove these parts reduce the reliablity of the car of I cared enough to buy the parts and compare.

I think it important that these articles need to be tempered by the fact there are likely thousands of cars out there running all original parts with no problems for decades. By reading the article you might come away thinking the points are a big problem for the cars. In reality is they are close to set and forget if you do them right (well yes you need to adjust time from time to time).

Some notes on the pictures. The first 3 are of the plate I put on my dist. It is a NOS Ford upper plate with NOS Ford script points. Kind of hard to see the tungsten in the pictures. What you need to notice is the hole in the middle of the plate. That hole is ground round for accuracy in location of the points and to ensure a flat surface. The "improved" upper plate is just stamped and the hole is not as accurately formed. Since it is not a good surface it will wear fast in service causing more variablity in the gap on the points as the plate moves. A great improvement!
The old dist is from my brothers car. That is the plate assembled by a 15 year old back in 1970 or so. Those are the same points that came with the car. It was too hard to see the manufacturer, but we could make out a circle on them. Yes, it is due for some lube. Well the car is kind of due for a proper restoration, but it still runs 60 MPH with no complants. Best hold on tight if he hits the brakes too.
Who was the author of the article?
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Old 01-22-2018, 08:57 AM   #11
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Default Re: The Restorer needs to fact check its articles!!!

Over time I have read many articles in the restorer with erroneous and misleading information concerning Model A components; function, operation, and repair.
With regard to the restorer I have noticed that censorship is alive and well.
2018 will be my last year with this "club?".
Too much wrong info, political views, and censorship. I don't need to pay for what I can get for free.
This is my opinion based on my experience and observation.
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Old 01-22-2018, 12:07 PM   #12
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Default Re: The Restorer needs to fact check its articles!!!

Kevin, I fully agree with what you said. I am dissapointed that a magazine named "the restorer" would print articles on modifications.
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Old 01-22-2018, 12:21 PM   #13
BRENT in 10-uh-C
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Default Re: The Restorer needs to fact check its articles!!!

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Kevin, I fully agree with what you said. I am dissapointed that a magazine named "the restorer" would print articles on modifications.

Funny thing, I have always thought both club's magazine was not named correctly. The Model-A News seems to fit the Club of America better and The Restorer seemed to be a better name for the MARC club.

From my perspective, the difficult issue of this entire scenario is both magazines likely need articles for content. Most authors likely feel like they are experienced at what they write about, ...and if that author submits an article and the Magazine Editor wants to edit the content of the article, it likely ticks off the author and they will retract their submission. So now the editorial staff must walk a fine-line of choosing how much inaccuracies they are willing to accept vs. not having any content at all. Tough scenario to be in.
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Old 01-22-2018, 01:55 PM   #14
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Default Re: The Restorer needs to fact check its articles!!!

I just don't pay much attention to articles that refer to modifications in either magazine . I think the MARC magazine holds much information that keeps closer to original .
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Old 01-22-2018, 03:32 PM   #15
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Default Re: The Restorer needs to fact check its articles!!!

Gave up on both a long time ago.
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Old 01-22-2018, 04:11 PM   #16
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Default Re: The Restorer needs to fact check its articles!!!

I was somewhat amazed by that article myself. I'll leave it at that.
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Old 01-22-2018, 05:01 PM   #17
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Default Re: The Restorer needs to fact check its articles!!!

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Gave up on both a long time ago.
Please explain why..2 of the best magazines in the hobby and both award winning .. Why give up..
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Old 01-22-2018, 05:17 PM   #18
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Default Re: The Restorer needs to fact check its articles!!!

I suspect that the editor sometimes find him/herself scrambling for copy to fill the magazine and make deadline. Maybe if the editors had more material submitted to choose from? Just a thought.
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Old 01-22-2018, 05:21 PM   #19
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Default Re: The Restorer needs to fact check its articles!!!

... never mind.
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Last edited by 700rpm; 01-22-2018 at 05:38 PM.
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Old 01-22-2018, 06:11 PM   #20
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Default Re: The Restorer needs to fact check its articles!!!

Unbelievable we are so fortunate to have both clubs.
We all need to ask ourselves what we have done to promote our hobby.
This crap talked keeps our future mode A enthusiasts away.
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