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Old 04-16-2020, 01:06 AM   #1
rehpotsirhcj
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Default Banjo hub bearing seat cracked

I can see now that my first banjo build will be an adventure! But all good, I get to ask newbie questions and learn something. I pulled the clips, seals, and bearings tonight and found a nice split in what Iím calling the bearing seat (see photo) in one of the two hubs.
Iím going to go out on a limb and assume that this is not okay.
My question, can it be repaired, and if so, how? Also, I need something more comprehensive than the Tardel booklet. Maybe someone can recommend a favorite shop manual or service bulletin?
Thanks as always,
-Chris



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Old 04-16-2020, 02:57 AM   #2
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Default Re: Banjo hub bearing seat cracked

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Originally Posted by rehpotsirhcj View Post
I can see now that my first banjo build will be an adventure! I need something more comprehensive than the Tardel booklet. Maybe someone can recommend a favorite shop manual or service bulletin?
Thanks as always,
-Chris

Hey, "backwards jchristopher"......We used to do that with the neighborhood girls' names when I was a kid! More seriously though, whether you're aware or not, you can't forget TOM ENDY's famous Model A rear end rebuild narrative in the link below. Everyone over on the A-bone board knows of Tom's expertise. There are some bearing size differences in a Model A rear, but the procedure is the same '28-'48. Click the link below! You need to chunk that cracked hub and get another....good hubs in worn-out drums are a dime a dozen! DD


http://www.santaanitaas.org/wp-conte...vised-2014.pdf
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Old 04-16-2020, 03:02 AM   #3
Mart
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Default Re: Banjo hub bearing seat cracked

Are you sure it is cracked and not intentionally like that? That surface is not particularly functional, the bearing cage may touch it, but there shouldn't be any end thrust on it. I will have a look to see if I have anything similar here to check. I don't know those parts well enough to say whether that is right or wrong from the pic. without checking.

Edit: I checked two hubs I have here and there is no crack like that so I must assume it should not be like that.

Carry on.

Mart.

Last edited by Mart; 04-16-2020 at 03:14 AM.
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Old 04-16-2020, 05:36 AM   #4
Terry,OH
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Default Re: Banjo hub bearing seat cracked

I looked at three rear hubs. Two were from 46-48 with the flange on the face and one from 40 with the flange internal, as in the photo above, none of the ones I have have that opening.
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Old 04-16-2020, 07:37 AM   #5
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Default Re: Banjo hub bearing seat cracked

Before hunting for a replacement parts, you could have it "maganfluxed" at a machine shop. Most cracks are not in a straight line. You cannot take a chance on such a critical part.
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Old 04-16-2020, 09:58 AM   #6
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Default Re: Banjo hub bearing seat cracked

Don't know if it is right or wrong, but the interesting thing is, in my experience, that cracks in most materials start at a "stress riser", such as a stone chip in a windshield. I would think that a crack in a hub would start at the keyway slot. Could be a manufacturing flaw, but doesn't look like something I would want to run.
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Old 04-16-2020, 10:17 AM   #7
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Default Re: Banjo hub bearing seat cracked

To me it almost looks like a piece of sheet metal or something stuck in there.


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Old 04-16-2020, 10:24 AM   #8
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Default Re: Banjo hub bearing seat cracked

Yes, me too, I was wondering if it was a pressed in piece.
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Old 04-16-2020, 10:37 AM   #9
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Default Re: Banjo hub bearing seat cracked

Play it safe and just get a new hub. Too critical a part to be guessing.
You can buy one from MT Products or I bet a Fordbarner has a good one for sale.
http://www.mtcarproducts.com/Front-And-Rear-Hubs.html
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Old 04-16-2020, 11:19 AM   #10
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Default Re: Banjo hub bearing seat cracked

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Originally Posted by 19Fordy View Post
Play it safe and just get a new hub. Too critical a part to be guessing.
You can buy one from MT Products or I bet a Fordbarner has a good one for sale.
http://www.mtcarproducts.com/Front-And-Rear-Hubs.html
I agree 100%
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Old 04-16-2020, 11:31 AM   #11
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Default Re: Banjo hub bearing seat cracked

Looks like sheet metal , crack isn't concentric to inner and appears to stop at the thin lip .
Just my observation
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Old 04-16-2020, 12:29 PM   #12
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Default Re: Banjo hub bearing seat cracked

He said it was a split (crack) - so I believe him. I'd get a new hub . . .
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Old 04-16-2020, 01:53 PM   #13
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Default Re: Banjo hub bearing seat cracked

Looks more like a split in the tin sheild thats pressed into the hub. Its raised up were it ends at the center and doesnt show the crack going into the taper.

If your worried just buy a used hub. Better off finding a good used hub and drum so you dont have to mess with those studs.
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Old 04-16-2020, 02:56 PM   #14
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Default Re: Banjo hub bearing seat cracked

That is a sheet metal piece that is replaceable.
If your hub & drum is good, buy a junk hub just for the piece.
I have seen that piece on E-bay in the past.
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Old 04-16-2020, 05:41 PM   #15
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Default Re: Banjo hub bearing seat cracked

Thank guys, some really good information! I think we need a virtual nickel jar here that the newly informed can contribute to a beer fund for the educated.
The split does end at the edge, the reflection of the inner hub makes it look a bit like it runs farther than it does, I should have set something down in there for the photo. I canít tell if the piece is a plate or part of a pressed in sleeve. I also canít find it in an exploded diagram or listed as an item on the Vanpelt site...but itís likely that itís there somewhere.
Iíll see if I can leverage it out of there, and if so Iíll post a photo for anyoneís future reference.
Thanks again
-Chris


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Old 04-16-2020, 06:20 PM   #16
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Default Re: Banjo hub bearing seat cracked

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Originally Posted by rehpotsirhcj View Post
Thank guys, some really good information! I think we need a virtual nickel jar here that the newly informed can contribute to a beer fund for the educated.
The split does end at the edge, the reflection of the inner hub makes it look a bit like it runs farther than it does, I should have set something down in there for the photo. I canít tell if the piece is a plate or part of a pressed in sleeve. I also canít find it in an exploded diagram or listed as an item on the Vanpelt site...but itís likely that itís there somewhere.
Iíll see if I can leverage it out of there, and if so Iíll post a photo for anyoneís future reference.
Thanks again
-Chris

Likely no reference to it 'cuz that is not a normally serviceable or replaceable piece. DD
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Old 04-16-2020, 06:29 PM   #17
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Default Re: Banjo hub bearing seat cracked

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Originally Posted by V8COOPMAN View Post
Likely no reference to it 'cuz that is not a normally serviceable or replaceable piece. DD

Very true


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Old 04-16-2020, 10:29 PM   #18
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Default Re: Banjo hub bearing seat cracked

I think the plate simply provides a surface for the cage bearing to ride against. If left in place I don't think it would ever be a problem. I checked a few of mine, and they don't look like they would come out easily. The plate has no where to go.
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Old 04-16-2020, 11:41 PM   #19
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Default Re: Banjo hub bearing seat cracked

I get that you are new to this but am I right that this hub is from the same rear end you had the picture of the banjo that had vice and hammer marks on the machined face the gaskets seal on? Every part of this rear end needs to be inspected by someone who has experience with these rear ends. It is how you learn. ESPECIALLY the axle keyways. They probably have been run loose on the key by someone who thought the key was there to keep the hub from spinning on the axle. This is a real safety issue. Loose hubs cause cracks to start at the inner end of the keyway and when they break off, the drum, broken axle end, wheel and tire exit the vehicle. This can happen at any time, like going down the highway at speed or just starting out from a stop. The axles you use if not new MUST be checked for cracks either by dye penetrant or magnaflux or both. This is a serious safety issue and someone new to the old Ford rear end may not know about it. Please get your axles checked and read up on how to insure your hubs are correctly tightened. Everything else on or in the rear end could be or go bad without causing an accident and damaging your car or hurting you. I know some people in Ellensburg with flathead experience. PM me please. I visit my son and grandkids there and would be happy to stop by your place next time I am over.
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Old 04-17-2020, 12:35 AM   #20
rehpotsirhcj
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Default Re: Banjo hub bearing seat cracked

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Originally Posted by deuce_roadster View Post
I get that you are new to this but am I right that this hub is from the same rear end you had the picture of the banjo that had vice and hammer marks on the machined face the gaskets seal on? Every part of this rear end needs to be inspected by someone who has experience with these rear ends. It is how you learn. ESPECIALLY the axle keyways. They probably have been run loose on the key by someone who thought the key was there to keep the hub from spinning on the axle. This is a real safety issue. Loose hubs cause cracks to start at the inner end of the keyway and when they break off, the drum, broken axle end, wheel and tire exit the vehicle. This can happen at any time, like going down the highway at speed or just starting out from a stop. The axles you use if not new MUST be checked for cracks either by dye penetrant or magnaflux or both. This is a serious safety issue and someone new to the old Ford rear end may not know about it. Please get your axles checked and read up on how to insure your hubs are correctly tightened. Everything else on or in the rear end could be or go bad without causing an accident and damaging your car or hurting you. I know some people in Ellensburg with flathead experience. PM me please. I visit my son and grandkids there and would be happy to stop by your place next time I am over.

Point taken.
Yes this is the same rear end. It seems to have been roughly treated, perhaps with best intentions given that itís not cheap once one cracks the seals.
My goal of course is to do this correctly and have a safe and reliable banjo for my project. Iím also in no hurry, Iíd like to learn so that I can build a dozen more.
Happy to hear you get to Eburg occasionally! Youíre more than welcome anytime. Iíll shoot you a pm.


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