Go Back   The Ford Barn > General Discussion > Model A (1928-31)

Sponsored Links (Register now to hide all advertisements)

Reply
 
Thread Tools Display Modes
Old 04-11-2020, 11:36 AM   #41
KUDZUVIPER
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Jan 2012
Location: South Elgin, IL/MID-MO
Posts: 526
Default Re: EOG's 1928 Model A Pickup

Hello EOG, your engine is definitely not original to your truck...Model B engine...has a C on head, block off plate where the B engine fuel pump was located (passenger side of the block). As recommended above, drain old gas into cans (containers) since the Model A fuel is gravity fed, this should be fairly simple.

Nice truck!
KUDZUVIPER is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 04-11-2020, 12:06 PM   #42
Eccentric Old Guy
Member
 
Eccentric Old Guy's Avatar
 
Join Date: Mar 2020
Location: Montana
Posts: 42
Default Re: EOG's 1928 Model A Pickup

Quote:
Originally Posted by KUDZUVIPER View Post
Hello EOG, your engine is definitely not original to your truck...Model B engine...has a C on head, block off plate where the B engine fuel pump was located (passenger side of the block). As recommended above, drain old gas into cans (containers) since the Model A fuel is gravity fed, this should be fairly simple.

Nice truck!
This is definitely confusing. The serial number on the block is A263xxx, which places it at a July 1928 mfg date.....

Is it possible to have a model B head on a Model A block?????

EOG
Eccentric Old Guy is offline   Reply With Quote
Sponsored Links (Register now to hide all advertisements)
Old 04-11-2020, 12:14 PM   #43
Bob C
Senior Member
 
Join Date: May 2010
Location: So Cal
Posts: 7,009
Default Re: EOG's 1928 Model A Pickup

The B engine was not stamped on the block, it was on the flywheel housing. Somebody probably stamped the A number into the B Block.
Bob C is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 04-11-2020, 12:30 PM   #44
J Franklin
Senior Member
 
J Franklin's Avatar
 
Join Date: May 2010
Location: oregon
Posts: 4,325
Default Re: EOG's 1928 Model A Pickup

Quote:
Originally Posted by Bob C View Post
The B engine was not stamped on the block, it was on the flywheel housing. Somebody probably stamped the A number into the B Block.
It was common to restamp the replacement engine to keep all the registration straight at the time.
J Franklin is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 04-11-2020, 01:19 PM   #45
Eccentric Old Guy
Member
 
Eccentric Old Guy's Avatar
 
Join Date: Mar 2020
Location: Montana
Posts: 42
Default Re: EOG's 1928 Model A Pickup

Quote:
Originally Posted by J Franklin View Post
It was common to restamp the replacement engine to keep all the registration straight at the time.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Bob C View Post
The B engine was not stamped on the block, it was on the flywheel housing. Somebody probably stamped the A number into the B Block.
Ah-ha......well, gentlemen.....that would explain it!

I just got back from the storage place.....went out there to check. Definitely has the "C" on top of the head, which is part of the casting. The engine number could very well be a re-stamp, and looks hand stamped. You guys had me worried there for a minute, that this engine would run at all! Well.....I hope it has the model B tranny to go with it.

EOG
Eccentric Old Guy is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 04-11-2020, 01:25 PM   #46
Eccentric Old Guy
Member
 
Eccentric Old Guy's Avatar
 
Join Date: Mar 2020
Location: Montana
Posts: 42
Default Re: EOG's 1928 Model A Pickup

Quote:
Originally Posted by KUDZUVIPER View Post
Hello EOG, your engine is definitely not original to your truck...Model B engine...has a C on head, block off plate where the B engine fuel pump was located (passenger side of the block). As recommended above, drain old gas into cans (containers) since the Model A fuel is gravity fed, this should be fairly simple.

Nice truck!
Is that the "block off plate" for the model B engine just in front of the carburetor?
Attached Images
File Type: jpg 14.jpg (93.3 KB, 32 views)
Eccentric Old Guy is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 04-11-2020, 01:39 PM   #47
30 Closed Cab PU
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Aug 2018
Location: Wisconsin
Posts: 2,242
Default Re: EOG's 1928 Model A Pickup

Quote:
Originally Posted by Eccentric Old Guy View Post
Hello 30 CCPU........I can't do any maintenance at the storage place, so it looks like I'll have to get a battery and drive it to my home. About a 2-3 mile trip. Then I can drain the old gas from the tank, and commence with retorque of head, lube job, drop the pan, clean oil screen, change oil....etc......

I can add some fresh gas to the tank.....that might be a good idea, eh?

EOG
Not a good idea - any chance you can push it outside and do it? All you have to do is turn off the gas shut off under the tank (lever horizontal, not vertical, lever down is on), empty the sediment bowl, get some rubber-vinyl hose/remove the gas line at the carb, put the hose over the gas line and turn on the fuel valve to drain the old gas into a container. Facing the carb on the bottom, remove the left bolt on the bottom to drain the carb.


That gas in the sediment bowl looks nasty to me. Do not even hand crank or use the starter without draining the tank and adding fresh gas 1st - other wise you may suck up varnish/junk into the carb passages/jets and plug up your carb.


I had this happen to me when I originally resuscitated my A, ended up purchasing a rebuilt carb after I cleaned out the tank. I could not get the motor to run . It would fire, but would not run.

Last edited by 30 Closed Cab PU; 04-11-2020 at 01:43 PM. Reason: typos
30 Closed Cab PU is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 04-11-2020, 01:55 PM   #48
30 Closed Cab PU
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Aug 2018
Location: Wisconsin
Posts: 2,242
Default Re: EOG's 1928 Model A Pickup

Quote:
Originally Posted by Eccentric Old Guy View Post
Ah-ha......well, gentlemen.....that would explain it!

I just got back from the storage place.....went out there to check. Definitely has the "C" on top of the head, which is part of the casting. The engine number could very well be a re-stamp, and looks hand stamped. You guys had me worried there for a minute, that this engine would run at all! Well.....I hope it has the model B tranny to go with it.

EOG
If the block has been restamped, usually means the old # has been ground off. So if the number area is smooth or a different texture than the surrounding block - it is a restamp. If the area texture on the block matches the # area, then it is original. The #s were hand stamped a digit at a time by hand during production, so most digits are not perfectly aligned.
30 Closed Cab PU is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 04-11-2020, 01:57 PM   #49
Y-Blockhead
Senior Member
 
Y-Blockhead's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jul 2011
Location: Redondo Beach, CA
Posts: 4,229
Default Re: EOG's 1928 Model A Pickup

Quote:
Originally Posted by 30 Closed Cab PU View Post
Could try a re-torque of the head .

Am not familiar with using acorn head nuts, any chance they are bottoming out affecting the head torque?
A lot of times the "acorn nuts" are just caps stuck over the the real head nuts. Pull up on them to see if they come off before retoqueing your head.

BTW, definitely a 'B' Head, you have the three bolt water pump. (Didn't see that mentioned anywhere)
__________________
Y-Blockhead
'30 Briggs Town Sedan
'55 Ford Ranchwagon
_________________________________
And once again that is just my 1 worth.


https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=51ufACHJMfU
Y-Blockhead is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 04-11-2020, 02:01 PM   #50
CHuDWah
Senior Member
 
CHuDWah's Avatar
 
Join Date: Dec 2010
Location: Kritter Krick, Flaw-duh
Posts: 930
Default Re: EOG's 1928 Model A Pickup

Quote:
Originally Posted by Eccentric Old Guy View Post
...I've seen photos of other '28 Fords with the brown steering wheel......I'm assuming it's the original steering wheel.....?...

I'd say the steering wheel is correct. It's usually referred to as "red" (as opposed to later black ones) but it can be brownish, especially with some age on it.

You've gotten some good answers, so just a little expansion on battery replacement. You have to remove the horizontal half of the floorboard (as opposed to the angled half that meets the firewall). Lift the mat and you can see the bolts around the perimeter. There is an inspection plate in the floorboard - unfortunately it's not big enough for battery removal/replacement.

And re your engine...

It's a B - fuel pump block-off and no oil return tube. Model A engine number is on driver-side pad above water inlet. B is on flywheel housing but curiously it still has the pad (blank) like A. I'd guess yours was stamped in the A location, presumably with the original 28 number. Does it have stars on each end of the number? Does it match the title? Hopefully this will not cause titling problems with the MVD.

An A engine was numbered when it passed testing/inspection. However, there could be as much as a 3-month lapse before it was installed in a chassis. At that point, the engine number was stamped on top of the driver-side frame rail when the vehicle was assembled. It would be interesting to see if your frame number matches the engine number, but unfortunately you have to remove the cab to see it - even then, it's not always easily visible. Ford considered the engine/frame number to be the vehicle's serial number - they say so in the owner's manual (Instruction Book in Ford-speak). Many states used it as the title number, although some now assign their own number.

Bob C quoted the judging standards that brown interior started in August 28. If your (original) engine was July, and given the lapse between engine numbering and vehicle assembly, brown could be correct for your truck.
__________________
WANTED: original flux capacitor and Mr. Fusion Home Energy Reactor. Must be NOS and reasonably priced.
CHuDWah is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 04-11-2020, 02:27 PM   #51
Eccentric Old Guy
Member
 
Eccentric Old Guy's Avatar
 
Join Date: Mar 2020
Location: Montana
Posts: 42
Default Re: EOG's 1928 Model A Pickup

Quote:
Originally Posted by 30 Closed Cab PU View Post
Not a good idea - any chance you can push it outside and do it? All you have to do is turn off the gas shut off under the tank (lever horizontal, not vertical, lever down is on), empty the sediment bowl, get some rubber-vinyl hose/remove the gas line at the carb, put the hose over the gas line and turn on the fuel valve to drain the old gas into a container. Facing the carb on the bottom, remove the left bolt on the bottom to drain the carb.
OK Thanks......this sounds like the plan.

eog
Eccentric Old Guy is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 04-11-2020, 02:46 PM   #52
Eccentric Old Guy
Member
 
Eccentric Old Guy's Avatar
 
Join Date: Mar 2020
Location: Montana
Posts: 42
Default Re: EOG's 1928 Model A Pickup

Quote:
Originally Posted by CHuDWah View Post
I'd say the steering wheel is correct. It's usually referred to as "red" (as opposed to later black ones) but it can be brownish, especially with some age on it.

You've gotten some good answers, so just a little expansion on battery replacement. You have to remove the horizontal half of the floorboard (as opposed to the angled half that meets the firewall). Lift the mat and you can see the bolts around the perimeter. There is an inspection plate in the floorboard - unfortunately it's not big enough for battery removal/replacement.

And re your engine...

It's a B - fuel pump block-off and no oil return tube. Model A engine number is on driver-side pad above water inlet. B is on flywheel housing but curiously it still has the pad (blank) like A. I'd guess yours was stamped in the A location, presumably with the original 28 number. Does it have stars on each end of the number? Does it match the title? Hopefully this will not cause titling problems with the MVD.

An A engine was numbered when it passed testing/inspection. However, there could be as much as a 3-month lapse before it was installed in a chassis. At that point, the engine number was stamped on top of the driver-side frame rail when the vehicle was assembled. It would be interesting to see if your frame number matches the engine number, but unfortunately you have to remove the cab to see it - even then, it's not always easily visible. Ford considered the engine/frame number to be the vehicle's serial number - they say so in the owner's manual (Instruction Book in Ford-speak). Many states used it as the title number, although some now assign their own number.

Bob C quoted the judging standards that brown interior started in August 28. If your (original) engine was July, and given the lapse between engine numbering and vehicle assembly, brown could be correct for your truck.
Ok, thanks CHuDWah

That gives me a better idea of battery replacement......probably sometime this coming week.

BTW, the door panels are not fabric covered. They are some kind of fiberboard, brown in color.

Yes, the motor number is the same as on the title (Texas).....I don't recall any extra numbers, or stars. It just A with 6 digits, as I recall.

One thing I'm still a bit confused about is if the battery is negative ground, or positive ground. Seems to me they were all negative ground back then.....but, I'm open to other points of view on that.

Thanks for posting your thoughts......

eog
Eccentric Old Guy is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 04-11-2020, 02:55 PM   #53
Y-Blockhead
Senior Member
 
Y-Blockhead's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jul 2011
Location: Redondo Beach, CA
Posts: 4,229
Default Re: EOG's 1928 Model A Pickup

Quote:
Originally Posted by Eccentric Old Guy View Post
One thing I'm still a bit confused about is if the battery is negative ground, or positive ground. Seems to me they were all negative ground back then.....but, I'm open to other points of view on that.
Model As are 6v, positive ground, originally.
__________________
Y-Blockhead
'30 Briggs Town Sedan
'55 Ford Ranchwagon
_________________________________
And once again that is just my 1 worth.


https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=51ufACHJMfU
Y-Blockhead is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 04-11-2020, 03:00 PM   #54
CHuDWah
Senior Member
 
CHuDWah's Avatar
 
Join Date: Dec 2010
Location: Kritter Krick, Flaw-duh
Posts: 930
Default Re: EOG's 1928 Model A Pickup

Quote:
Originally Posted by 30 Closed Cab PU View Post
If the block has been restamped, usually means the old # has been ground off. So if the number area is smooth or a different texture than the surrounding block - it is a restamp. If the area texture on the block matches the # area, then it is original. The #s were hand stamped a digit at a time by hand during production, so most digits are not perfectly aligned.

True for A. But B is factory-stamped on flywheel cover, yet still has number pad above water inlet like A. The pad is blank so it could be non-factory-stamped and still have same texture as block.
__________________
WANTED: original flux capacitor and Mr. Fusion Home Energy Reactor. Must be NOS and reasonably priced.
CHuDWah is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 04-11-2020, 03:08 PM   #55
Charlie Stephens
Senior Member
 
Join Date: May 2010
Location: Southern California
Posts: 6,526
Default Re: EOG's 1928 Model A Pickup

Quote:
Originally Posted by Eccentric Old Guy View Post
Ah-ha......well, gentlemen.....that would explain it!

I just got back from the storage place.....went out there to check. Definitely has the "C" on top of the head, which is part of the casting. The engine number could very well be a re-stamp, and looks hand stamped. You guys had me worried there for a minute, that this engine would run at all! Well.....I hope it has the model B tranny to go with it.

EOG
It is probably a Model A trans. The Model A trans is a gear box that is bolted to a bell housing (photo on the left). The Model B is a one piece casting for the gear box and bell housing (photo on the right). You probably have a Model A trans. It is possible to convert.
1. You need to buy or fabricate something to hold the brake and clutch pedals. The Model A had a shaft coming out the side of the bell housing to support the brake and clutch pedals. The Model B had a throw out arm coming out of the bell housing and bracket mounted to the frame.
2. You need to make a bracket for the wishbone, the Model a wishbone attached to the bottom of the bell housing and the Model B attached to the frame.
3. If it ain't broke don't fix it.

Charlie Stephens
Attached Images
File Type: jpg UNADJUSTEDNONRAW_thumb_805c.jpg (48.6 KB, 17 views)
File Type: jpg UNADJUSTEDNONRAW_thumb_8058.jpg (101.3 KB, 18 views)

Last edited by Charlie Stephens; 04-11-2020 at 03:54 PM.
Charlie Stephens is online now   Reply With Quote
Old 04-11-2020, 03:36 PM   #56
CHuDWah
Senior Member
 
CHuDWah's Avatar
 
Join Date: Dec 2010
Location: Kritter Krick, Flaw-duh
Posts: 930
Default Re: EOG's 1928 Model A Pickup

Quote:
Originally Posted by Eccentric Old Guy View Post
...BTW, the door panels are not fabric covered. They are some kind of fiberboard, brown in color.

From your description, sounds like door panels are original - replacements often are fabric covered. Dunno if non-fabric have been reproduced.

Yes, the motor number is the same as on the title (Texas).....I don't recall any extra numbers, or stars. It just A with 6 digits, as I recall.

I asked because factory-stamped number has a star at both ends - more evidence that your A number was non-factory-stamped on a bare B pad.

One thing I'm still a bit confused about is if the battery is negative ground, or positive ground.

Positive
...
__________________
WANTED: original flux capacitor and Mr. Fusion Home Energy Reactor. Must be NOS and reasonably priced.
CHuDWah is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 04-11-2020, 03:48 PM   #57
Eccentric Old Guy
Member
 
Eccentric Old Guy's Avatar
 
Join Date: Mar 2020
Location: Montana
Posts: 42
Default Re: EOG's 1928 Model A Pickup

Quote:
Originally Posted by CHuDWah View Post
...
The door panels look too nice to be original......possibly hand made by someone (?).

Looks like it's agreed by those in the know that it would be positive ground......glad I asked, because I would have hooked it up backwards.

Thanks for the comeback.

eog
Eccentric Old Guy is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 04-11-2020, 03:54 PM   #58
Eccentric Old Guy
Member
 
Eccentric Old Guy's Avatar
 
Join Date: Mar 2020
Location: Montana
Posts: 42
Default Re: EOG's 1928 Model A Pickup

Quote:
Originally Posted by Charlie Stephens View Post
3. If it ain't broke don't fix it.
Right-O, Charlie

I plan to do a little general maintenance.......other than that, my life is full of other things to do! I just want something I can drive once in a while......and, have a little fun!

EOG
Eccentric Old Guy is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 04-11-2020, 05:30 PM   #59
Charlie Stephens
Senior Member
 
Join Date: May 2010
Location: Southern California
Posts: 6,526
Default Re: EOG's 1928 Model A Pickup

Hook it up correctly as positive ground. If you replace the cables be sure to get cables from an early Ford parts supplier that will be the correct diameter. If you buy them from the local auto parts store you will probably get cables designed for 12 volts which are smaller (the counterman in the store won't know the difference). When the engine is not running turn on the lights and confirm the ammeter shows a discharge. If it shows charge then someone that probably didn't know what they were doing was working on the electrical system. Don't just reverse the leads on the ammeter. Post and we will walk you through the fix.

Charlie Stephens

Last edited by Charlie Stephens; 04-11-2020 at 05:38 PM.
Charlie Stephens is online now   Reply With Quote
Old 04-11-2020, 07:01 PM   #60
Eccentric Old Guy
Member
 
Eccentric Old Guy's Avatar
 
Join Date: Mar 2020
Location: Montana
Posts: 42
Default Re: EOG's 1928 Model A Pickup

Quote:
Originally Posted by Charlie Stephens View Post
Hook it up correctly as positive ground. If you replace the cables be sure to get cables from an early Ford parts supplier that will be the correct diameter. If you buy them from the local auto parts store you will probably get cables designed for 12 volts which are smaller (the counterman in the store won't know the difference). When the engine is not running turn on the lights and confirm the ammeter shows a discharge. If it shows charge then someone that probably didn't know what they were doing was working on the electrical system. Don't just reverse the leads on the ammeter. Post and we will walk you through the fix.

Charlie Stephens
OK, I will.......what do you think about replacing the radiator fan with a newer aluminum one? Does "if it ain't broke, don't fix it" apply there, too?

Have a good day all.....

eog
Eccentric Old Guy is offline   Reply With Quote
Reply

Thread Tools
Display Modes

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off

Forum Jump

Sponsored Links (Register now to hide all advertisements)


All times are GMT -5. The time now is 08:13 PM.