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Old 11-16-2018, 09:59 PM   #1
CrazyTed
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Default New to 312 Y Block

I inherited a 1929 Model A T-bucket from my father when he passed away unexpectedly last year. My understanding is it has a 312 Y Block in it from a 1956 T-bird. I have just recently started working on this. Last time I visited my father he had replaced the master cylinder and I helped him find the correct fitting for the brake line but we never bled it as I had to leave. I have bled them and found a leak at the "proportioning" valve between the master cylinder and front disk brakes. Fixed that and bled it more. Only get pedal when you pump it a bunch. Guess I'll "bench" bleed the master cylinder when I get time and bleed the system again.

Now, last time I saw the car run was about 2 years ago. My father would always take my wife out for rides when we visited. Car ran ok. I have no idea what cam or other parts are in the car. It does have an Edelbrock intake on it and a small spacer between the carb and intake.

Now it won't start without starter fluid and when you get it started, runs rough and eventually stalls. My first thing will be to rebuild the carb. It has a Holley 600 single feed 4160 carb on it. I have not taken it off yet and have no clue what's in the carb jet wise. I just figure it's a good starting place as I have no clue when it was last worked on. After rebuilding the carb I'll move onto checking for any "vacuum" leaks on the intake and check the ignition.

My experience comes from the late '80's when I drag raced a Camaro that I built the 350 Chevy from the block up. Decent mechanic but don't know the ins and outs of the 312.

I'll take any and all advice and suggestions. I've been reading through a bunch here already trying to learn. I'll attach pics of the car and the driver's side of the engine.

Future plans are to clean up the fuel supply to the carb and redo the throttle linkage from the pedal rod to the carb linkage.
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Old 11-16-2018, 10:23 PM   #2
packrat5
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Default Re: New to 312 Y Block

If that thing has an automatic, there is a reason for the accel linkage like it is. Be careful with well meaning "helpers", if they don't really know y-blocks, move on. They are not small block Chevs in disguise
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Old 11-16-2018, 10:31 PM   #3
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Default Re: New to 312 Y Block

Is an auto but I believe I can create something in the same shape to do the job without looking so out of place. The transmission cable will be easy to mount to a custom plate. I've done a few of them for different cars.

Can't remember if it was an FX/MX or FMX transmission. Many parts on it are from the mid to late 70's.
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Old 11-16-2018, 11:16 PM   #4
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Default Re: New to 312 Y Block

1. Does the trans have a vacuum modulator on the rear of the case? Is so, that throttle linkage is just for full throttle kickdown. If no vacuum diaphragm, that throttle linkage is critical for proper shifting and trans life. Adjust per shop manual. If your trans is from that '56 T-Bird, it will not have a modulator and the throttle linkage must be stock (or function exactly like stock) and be kept properly adjusted.
2. If your distributor is the original '56 dual diaphragm unit, you have the wrong carb! The OEM distributor is vacuum advance only and needs the OEM carb. or the spark advance won't work. That late model Holley will work fine with a '57 and up Y-block distributor.
3. Don't forget that the 312 (and all Y-blocks) are solid lifter engines and need periodic valve adjustments.
4. The rest is basic maintenance and troubleshooting.
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Old 11-16-2018, 11:48 PM   #5
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Default Re: New to 312 Y Block

Okay, 40 deluxe is trying to tell you something. LISTEN. Don't try to change things that don't need changing, and without understanding what your dad created. You are apparently going to go about this like it's a chev. It's not. It quite likely is a Ford-o-matic, and as I can't see any cooler lines, is an air cooled trans. If you really want to do something constructive, lose the plastic fuel filters, they are a fire waiting to happen. And plumb in a hard line directly to the carb from the fuel pump. Get rid of the dinosaur distributor. Use a late pivot plate type, later than 59, like COAE, or COTE, to C4OE or C4TE. The car looks like it was well executed, don't just dive in and screw it up.
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Old 11-17-2018, 03:03 AM   #6
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Thumbs up Re: New to 312 Y Block

BEAUTIFUL RIDE - LOVE THE Y-BLOCK




The first thing I would be concerned with is fuel quality. How long did it sit?

The DIST appears (to me) to be a DS II WIDE CAP.

And yes, you can modify the trans linkage with LOKAR. Need some more detailed photos when you can and try and ID the trans. The plate on the main case will ID it.
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Old 11-17-2018, 03:48 AM   #7
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Default Re: New to 312 Y Block

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Originally Posted by KULTULZ View Post
BEAUTIFUL RIDE - LOVE THE Y-BLOCK




And yes, you can modify the trans linkage with LOKAR. Need some more detailed photos when you can and try and ID the trans. The plate on the main case will ID it.
Kultulz, Does the LOKAR cable (I'm assuming it is cable) have the exact same geometry as the factory linkage? If this is a '56 trans, as mentioned, the throttle linkage is what determines throttle pressure, which in turn determines line pressure and, (combined with governor pressure) shift points. Too little pressure leads to too early shifts and lets clutches and bands slip and burn. Too much pressure, and shift points will be too high and harsh. Better to have a smooth trans than chrome bling, in my opinion!
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Old 11-17-2018, 05:13 AM   #8
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Originally Posted by 40 Deluxe View Post

Kultulz,

Does the LOKAR cable (I'm assuming it is cable) have the exact same geometry as the factory linkage? If this is a '56 trans, as mentioned, the throttle linkage is what determines throttle pressure, which in turn determines line pressure and, (combined with governor pressure) shift points. Too little pressure leads to too early shifts and lets clutches and bands slip and burn. Too much pressure, and shift points will be too high and harsh. Better to have a smooth trans than chrome bling, in my opinion!
The cable(s)/brackets can be chosen and assembled to operate the TV system (as on an AOD). The way I understand the OP is he wants to rid the install of the engine mounted throttle bracket. He would have to fashion throttle and TV/kick-down cables.

LOKAR offers kits and individual service parts to fashion almost anything.

I understand his concern. The look is antiquated and needs to be improved for his open engine. You don't want MR. VICE GRIPS to poke fun at him do you?

He also might have a COM or FMX. Let's see what he comes up with.

Too bad an assembly sheet was not kept to help him along.
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Last edited by KULTULZ; 11-17-2018 at 05:20 AM.
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Old 11-17-2018, 05:31 AM   #9
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Post Re: New to 312 Y Block

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... and try and ID the trans. The plate on the main case will ID it.


As long as I don't replay to my own posts, I should be OK ...
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Old 11-17-2018, 12:53 PM   #10
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Default Re: New to 312 Y Block

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Originally Posted by CrazyTed View Post
. . . Now it won't start without starter fluid and when you get it started, runs rough and eventually stalls. My first thing will be to rebuild the carb. ...
Trouble-shoot the output of the fuel pump, flow & pressure. If there was/is ethanol in the fuel the pump diaphragm or check valves may have been damaged while it was sitting. Same with the carb and its internal parts.

That Holley carb may have a filter screen inside the inlet fitting just before the float valve, sometimes they get overlooked and clogged.
.

Last edited by dmsfrr; 11-17-2018 at 09:50 PM.
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Old 11-17-2018, 08:00 PM   #11
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Default Re: New to 312 Y Block

My Dad didn't build the car. He lucked into it at a great price years ago. My Dad's death was definitely a surprise. He did used to drive it more but ended up with a beautiful '57 Bel Air, a '40 2 door sedan and several other projects so this got bumped to the shed for awhile.

I'll get the trans ID'd next time I'm under the car. As for not treating it like a Chevy, not exactly sure what that means. It did run pretty good before and now doesn't. Won't start without starting fluid. Figured a good, safe bet would be to rebuild the carb. The same carb that has been on it and was running ok to begin with. Will cost me about $30 for the rebuild kit.

As for the throttle linkage setup, it's just butt ugly and appears to be setup for several other things to be attached to it. At a minimum, I'll be cutting off all the extra metal that is not used in this application and paint the bracket. If I do create a new bracket or buy something, it would mechanically function the same but not be so ugly. I've built many things in the past including for racing applications on both cars and motorcycles. If I build it, it would function the same as this big, hug hunk of metal on the intake and block.
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Old 11-18-2018, 08:54 PM   #12
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Default Re: New to 312 Y Block

On the throttle linkage/kick down bellcrank. It’s been a lot of years since I’ve done a Fordo, but I think there’s more to that than meets the eye. Something about the carb reaching full throttle, then that ugly device sliding down under spring tension and doing the final engagement of the kick down rod. I think there was a pair of holes you slid a 1/4” drill bit in to set it up, and the spring (which was underneath that big bracket) also needed to be the right one. IIRC, it’s not in the main manual, but in the Fordomatic manual.

I don’t know if it’s really needed for safe operation, and I’m sure you could duplicate by proper fabrication (and look a lot better, I hear you).

Maybe someone with all the manuals will chime in. Been too many years and cars for me to remember the details.

Great car, glad to see you bringing it back. Enjoy the ride
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Old 11-18-2018, 11:45 PM   #13
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Default Re: New to 312 Y Block

Just get it chromed! That will make everybody love and admire it! (And ask what it does!) You can make up all kinds of interesting explanations!
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Old 11-19-2018, 01:12 AM   #14
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Default Re: New to 312 Y Block

You should look at these images,it is possible that if this car sat over a year with ethanol gas the carburetor may well be junk by now as ethanol is a corrosive this same gunk and varnish is probably in the lines and tank also.https://www.google.com/search?biw=13...30.qVxX984UkvM
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Old 11-19-2018, 02:03 AM   #15
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Post Re: New to 312 Y Block


New Farm Bill Hobbles E15 Ethanol Expansion
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Old 11-19-2018, 07:02 PM   #16
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Default Re: New to 312 Y Block

The Cruise-O-Matics use a kick down rod linkage but they didn't come along till 1958. The Ford-O Matic design uses a throttle modulator control rod to control the shift pressures since there is no vacuum modulator. A cable set up would be very tricky to get the throttle modulator lever in the right place at the right time. It is timed to the throttle linkage and would be easier to leave it that way on a FOM application. If it is a Cruise-O-Matic or an FMX then a cable can be used for kick down but it would be a pita to set up when it already has a perfectly good set up to begin with.

Fuel delivery systems get crudded up pretty quick if they set around too long. The idle circuit in the carb is likely partially blocked with crud. The fuel tank can get gooped up if it set too long. Anything in the fuel system could be suspect until tested & proven to function properly. I don't see much wrong with the car myself. Beauty is in the eye of the beholder. New fancy stuff isn't always better. I like to see home fabricated stuff when done well. All the after market stuff is over priced & over hyped in my book.

Last edited by rotorwrench; 11-19-2018 at 07:25 PM.
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Old 11-19-2018, 08:18 PM   #17
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Default Re: New to 312 Y Block

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Originally Posted by JeffB2 View Post
You should look at these images,it is possible that if this car sat over a year with ethanol gas the carburetor may well be junk by now as ethanol is a corrosive this same gunk and varnish is probably in the lines and tank also.https://www.google.com/search?biw=13...30.qVxX984UkvM
Very familiar with ethanol and what it does to engines and components. I'm a motorcycle racer and am so glad I switched to a bike with fuel injection. I also run Liquid Performance Ethanol Equalizer in all the fuel I personally use. I have a sonic cleaner that we use for cleaning carb and carb parts on racing bikes so I figure I'll be doing a pretty in depth cleaning when I rebuild the carb. The parts arrived today so sometime this week I'll dive in and find out.
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Old 11-19-2018, 08:21 PM   #18
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Default Re: New to 312 Y Block

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Originally Posted by rotorwrench View Post
The Cruise-O-Matics use a kick down rod linkage but they didn't come along till 1958. The Ford-O Matic design uses a throttle modulator control rod to control the shift pressures since there is no vacuum modulator. A cable set up would be very tricky to get the throttle modulator lever in the right place at the right time. It is timed to the throttle linkage and would be easier to leave it that way on a FOM application. If it is a Cruise-O-Matic or an FMX then a cable can be used for kick down but it would be a pita to set up when it already has a perfectly good set up to begin with.

Fuel delivery systems get crudded up pretty quick if they set around too long. The idle circuit in the carb is likely partially blocked with crud. The fuel tank can get gooped up if it set too long. Anything in the fuel system could be suspect until tested & proven to function properly. I don't see much wrong with the car myself. Beauty is in the eye of the beholder. New fancy stuff isn't always better. I like to see home fabricated stuff when done well. All the after market stuff is over priced & over hyped in my book.
I spoke to my brother who has helped on this car before. He tells me it is definitely a Ford FMX trans. My recollection from working on the engine was only one rod to that bracket and that is from the accelerator pedal. Everything else was cables. Like I said above, I'm very good at setting up stuff like that so I could duplicate the arc, the measurements, the sweep, and all the parameters of this current bracket with a much simpler, less butt ugly setup that would almost exactly duplicate the current action.
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Old 11-19-2018, 08:29 PM   #19
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Default Re: New to 312 Y Block

If the trans is an original 56, it will be a Ford O Matic. I just wrote about 3 paragraphs on this and when I tried to post, I lost the whole damn thing. Nice car by the way and I love the Y block.
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Old 11-19-2018, 09:15 PM   #20
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Default Re: New to 312 Y Block

FMX didn't come out until 1966....
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