When were the first 1930 cars produced?

[DelSolid]

This is not a who's buried in Grants tomb question, What I mean is when (month/date) was production of the 1929 models stopped and the 1930 models begun?

Specifically I am interested in a west coast (Long Beach or San Francisco plants) built deluxe roadster but any information regarding the dates of transition to the 30 body style is helpful regardless of plant/body.

Thanks,

John

[Bob C]

1930 Deluxe Roaster did not come out until about August.

Bob

[CarlG]

If I had Pluck's book handy, it would tell you that and more.

[Bob C]

Forgot about that book. The 1930's were introduced Dec 31, 1929.
The Long Beach plant opened April 21, 1930.

Bob

[DelSolid]

OK, That sheds some light on things, although I don't like what I can now see!

My engine/chassis number is A26274XX which corresponds to a middle November 1929 mfg date but the body is a 1930. It appears to have deluxe parts on it but that doesn't mean much as most parts were gone. I have a reasonable belief that it was always a west coast car. The Speedo is an early 30 as are other details.

My problem is that when the car was put back in the DMV's system in the early 1990s it was entered as a 1929 because of the chassis number, despite the fact that it is clearly a 1930 body. I think the previous owner just didn't care.

So I have an appointment with the CHP to see the car and try to convince them that it is indeed a 1930 so I can get the title corrected (I know I could leave it but it just bugs me to no end that it is titled as a 29). Common sense says that an engine made in mid-November on the east coast could definitely end up in a next year car by the time it was transported out here to California but who says everyone has common sense?

Also, forgive my ignorance, but which book are you referring to? and whats a pluck?

[DelSolid]

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OK, A little googling and I found it, "BLADE OF DISHONOR" by Thomas Pluck.

I have to admit that I cant imagine where it addresses Model A, but if you say so...

(just kidding, I found it, 28-31 ford assembly line and plants)

[160B]

This should provide adequate information to establish the vehicle as a 1930.

RG&JS 1-2 Revised 2011

"assembly date for a vehicle may be as long as three
months after the date the engine was produced (four
months in 1931)."

[160B]

Originally Posted by DelSolid

also, forgive my ignorance, but which book are you referring to? and whats a pluck?

here is Steve Plucks web site

http://plucks329s.org/

And here is his engine data, with the complete engine number you can establish the actual date the engine was assembled.

http://plucks329s.org/pdf/studies/Mo...n%20Charts.pdf

[burner31]

Since you are in California, just tell the CHP and DMV that your car "identifies" as a 1930.
They must respect your "car"tural diversity
There...problem solved

[160B]

Your engine assembly date is 11-13-1929 and the vehicle assembly could have been as late as 2-13-1930.


Date.......beginning engine #....last engine #...# produced
11/12/29...2617358..................2624963...........00 07606
11/13/29...2624964..................2632608...........00 07645
11/14/29...2632609..................2640265...........00 07657

[DelSolid]

OK, Got it. Thanks everyone for the help.

160B, that is perfect.

Burner31, I'll keep that in my back pocket as Plan B.

[Anton Voycheck]

Originally Posted by CarlG

If I had Pluck's book handy, it would tell you that and more.

What is the title?


Looks interesting to me.

[CarlG]

Originally Posted by CarlG

If I had Pluck's book handy, it would tell you that and more.

Originally Posted by Anton Voycheck

What is the title?


Looks interesting to me.

Title is:
The 1928-1931 Ford Assembly Plants and Their Production of the Model A Ford "Passenger Cars" ... Part 1

by Steve Charles Plucker

There was an ad on the swap meet a while back.

Available on Amazon:
https://www.amazon.com/s/ref=nb_sb_n...ssembly+Plants

Probably other places as well.

Page 17 states:

"The 1930 models were introduced to the public on December 31, 1929 at many dealer establishments throughout the USA. They not only included a whole new look of the Model A Ford, but some new body styles also."

The book is only $25 and is well worth the read. Steve put countless hours assembling all the factual data as well as pictures of the assembly plants.

[Anton Voycheck]

Originally Posted by CarlG

Title is:
The 1928-1931 Ford Assembly Plants and Their Production of the Model A Ford "Passenger Cars" ... Part 1

by Steve Charles Plucker

There was an ad on the swap meet a while back.

Available on Amazon:
https://www.amazon.com/s/ref=nb_sb_n...ssembly+Plants

Probably other places as well.

Page 17 states:


The book is only $25 and is well worth the read. Steve put countless hours assembling all the factual data as well as pictures of the assembly plants.

Thanks.


I have several Model A books and this will make a great addition.

[redmodelt]

Is the frame number the same as title and engine? Lots of things can happen between 1929/30 and 2018. Body changed, frame changed, engine changed etc.

[Steve Plucker]

Originally Posted by redmodelt

Is the frame number the same as title and engine? Lots of things can happen between 1929/30 and 2018. Body changed, frame changed, engine changed etc.

Yes it WAS...when the car was bought brand new...Like you have said...lot's of things have changed.

HOWEVER it still can be if you have the right paperwork such as original title to back up your claim.

Pluck

[Mike V. Florida]

I have a problem with what you are doing. Yea I know it's my problem, not yours but here it goes and the admin can delete it if he wants.

Your engine/chassis number is Nov 1929. The factory you think it was assembled in was not opened until April 1930. That's 5 months, way past the 3 month window. So your car was an original 1929 car. Somewhere in it's past another body was put on, a 1930 body and you want the title it (with the 1929 serial number) as 1930.

What if you were to remove the 1930 body and put on a Ford Focus body from 2018. Would it make sense to go to the DMV and try to change the date to 2018?

A little to out there, so let's stick with the Ford Focus. Would anyone be alright if someone took a 2008 Ford Focus and re-bodied it as a 2018 and had a title to "prove" it was a 2018?

[dpson]

If the new 1930 models were introduced to the public on December 31, 1929 and these new models were in dealer show rooms at that time, then the assembly lines must have switched over before then. Not sure how long it took Ford to make the switch, but it wouldn't have happened overnight, so 1930 model year cars were produced in 1929.

[Steve Plucker]

According to the November 1929 Assembly Record Type documents, Dearborn assembled the following 1930 models:

1 Standard Coupe
39 Tudor Sedans
14 Fordor Sedans (Unknown if they were Murray or Briggs bodies or both)
31 Standard Sedans (Unknown if they were Murray or Briggs bodies or both)
78 Town Sedans (Unknown if they were Murray or Briggs bodies or both)
3 Cabriolets

That was Dearborn alone.

The rest of the 1930's assembled in 1929, which were assembled in December, were not only assembled in Dearborn but also the other assembly plants also if and when their 1929 model stock was used up. According to some of the data, the plants shut down for a while to get ready for the new 1930 models.

16 Phaetons
517 Roadsters
300 Standard Coupes
427 Sport Coupes
5295 Tudor Sedans
1038 Fordor Sedans (Unknown if they were Murray or Briggs bodies or both)
3501 Standard Sedans (Unknown if they were Murray or Briggs bodies or both)
4985 Town Sedans (Unknown if they were Murray or Briggs bodies or both)
870 Cabriolets

There were a total of 17115 1930 Model A passenger cars assembled in 1929.

They were then introduced to the public as stated above.

If you think you might have one of these 1930's built in 1929, and if the gas tank is original to the body itself, then review this article http://www.plucks329s.org/pdf/gastan...31gas_tank.pdf

for key items for this very small window of production.

Pluck

[Bikerider58]

Originally Posted by Mike V. Florida

Your engine/chassis number is Nov 1929. The factory you think it was assembled in was not opened until April 1930. That's 5 months, way past the 3 month window. So your car was an original 1929 car. Somewhere in it's past another body was put on, a 1930 body and you want the title it (with the 1929 serial number) as 1930.

Just to be sure, your chassis number matches the engine number which indicates 29. So, not a replacement engine.

My 30 was registered as 31, original sold year. Pervious owner tried and gave up. CA DMV can be a bother, but I was able to get mine corrected. CHP inspection was not required. DMV inspection, plus downloaded reference documents, plus statement of facts all supporting correct year. Printed documents had web sites listed so DMV folks could cross check.

[160B]

Originally Posted by DelSolid

This is not a who's buried in Grants tomb question, What I mean is when (month/date) was production of the 1929 models stopped and the 1930 models begun?
Specifically I am interested in a west coast (Long Beach or San Francisco plants) built deluxe roadster but any information regarding the dates of transition to the 30 body style is helpful regardless of plant/body.
Thanks, John

John, Here is a link to information that will help you identify which plant your vehicle was assembled. The assumption that it was assembled at Long Beach or San Francisco plants may be just that, an assumption. Read the article look for the assembly plant marking and then you can move forward based on facts.

http://mafca.com/data_aplant_id_numbers.html

The body assembly plant number was stamped into the top of the front body cross member, into the body side rails on the floor board level, or into the wooden cross member on certain body styles such as Cabriolets and Fordors. The number can be located anywhere on the cross member and can be oriented to read from driver to passenger side, from passenger to driver side, or from back to front. Also, the size of the stamp used differs from one assembly plant to another. Briggs and Murray bodied cars had a brass tag affixed to either the wooden body cross member or firewall. I am not collecting these tag numbers.


Most, but not all, of these numbers contain one, two, three or four letters that denote the specific assembly plant where the car was assembled. The digital portion of the number could indicate body style production. To date, 31 of the 35 assembly plants have been equated to their letter codes. It would appear that all of the assembly plants, regardless of its particular capability (i.e., major, standard or minor assembly plant), stamped these numbers into the cross member or side rails. For some unknown reason, not all Model "A" cars have an assembly plant number, but could largely be a result of the body cross member or side rails being replaced or the assembly plant number being filled in during restoration.


To download the latest version of the Model A Assembly Plants (US) List, CLICK the below link.
(You will need the free Adobe Reader program to open this PDF file.)

http://mafca.com/downloads/Technical...y%20Number.pdf

[Nosetime]

I think that would be a REALLY bad idea. You are essentially volunteering for potential DMV problems that so many try to avoid!! But, then again... I only had the one Colonoscopy that my doctor insisted I have... I am not volunteering for another.

[DelSolid]

Originally Posted by Bikerider58

Just to be sure, your chassis number matches the engine number which indicates 29. So, not a replacement engine.

The engine was swapped out a long time ago. I'm just going off the frame number. The car was cut and modded and basically ruined long ago. I just felt pity for it and decided that it made it this far without being scrapped and it needed to live again. The more I work on it the more I am returning it to stock (the body/interior at least).

Originally Posted by Mike V. Florida

Your engine/chassis number is Nov 1929. The factory you think it was assembled in was not opened until April 1930. That's 5 months, way past the 3 month window. So your car was an original 1929 car. Somewhere in it's past another body was put on, a 1930 body and you want the title it (with the 1929 serial number) as 1930.

I don't think it was specifically assembled in Long Beach, I was only aware that the car was supposed to have been a west coast car for it's entire life so I assumed it was mfg on the west coast. The LB plant is out based on it's opening date. The LA plant is out based on it's closing date. That narrows it down to just a few plants.

The travel time makes this engine a early-Dec to mid-Feb car. So a 1930 with that engine is actually quite likely.

The reason I am investigating the title as being in error rather than the car being a re-bodied 29 is that the car was re-entered into the DMV system in the early 90's. So a DMV clerk staring at a VIN book created the record, not Henry Ford. Since the vehicle number corresponds to a 1929 mfg date, I believe that's why the title now says 1929 YOM. That seems the simplest explanation. It may very well be a re-body but if so, the evidence for that is lost.

[160B]

Originally Posted by DelSolid

..................The reason I am investigating the title as being in error rather than the car being a re-bodied 29 is that the car was re-entered into the DMV system in the early 90's. So a DMV clerk staring at a VIN book created the record, not Henry Ford. Since the vehicle number corresponds to a 1929 mfg date, I believe that's why the title now says 1929 YOM. That seems the simplest explanation. It may very well be a re-body but if so, the evidence for that is lost.

I agree!!

[DelSolid]

I wanted to post a conclusion to this.

I made an appointment with the CHP and trailered the car down for an inspection. The officer performing it was crazy-knowledgeable about Model A's and even had his own MAFCA restoration and judging criteria book (I really didn't expect this). After removing the cowl for the number inspection and then looking for/at a ton of specific details on the frame and on the body he said it was a very early 1930 model roadster, maybe even assembled in late 29. He also had the complete DMV history on the car and said it was manually re-entered into the system by a DMV employee (not a CHP officer) in 1992. He then went on to say the DMV will only go by the VIN date, not a visual inspection so that's how it got entered as a 29. For it to have been put in as a 30 it would have been required to be brought to the CHP for a complete colonoscopy like I was doing and that almost nobody would do that.

He gave me the required paperwork for the DMV. I went there and after an hour of the nice lady typing like mad on her terminal I now have a title that officially says it's a 1930 and I even have YOM plates on it as well.