New Model A owner

[VFRhugh]

New owner with a million questions. Always thought it wound be fun to have an antique car. Model A Fords caught my attention about a year ago. They seem like a reasonably priced option. Not being rare is a plus since parts and knowledge are available. I joined this forum to hopefully tap into that knowledge. I'd been looking pretty hard for about six months and finally purchased my 1930 Tudor a few weeks ago. I live in an area that is conducive to driving it daily and have been. I can go to the cleaners, grocery store, barber, dentist, park, coffee shop, pharmacy, ATM, ect easily.
The car had a frame off restoration about ten years ago. Like a lot of Model A's I looked at the older owner let it sit for the last 7 or 8 years. He had receipts for thousands of dollars in parts that were installed. When I got her running in the clutch was slipping and the brakes were bad even with adjusting. So far I've replaced the clutch plate, converted to hydraulic brakes, and installed modern shocks. This winter I plan on going through the engine to see what I've really got. She starts easy, runs great, & tops out about 53mph on GPS. Not having any experience with model A's I don't know if this is good or not. I do have a problem I haven't been able to find anything on by searching the forum though. It's probably because I don't know what to call it. Going around a curve at speeds 40+ the car tends to increase the arc of the turn on its own. There is a lot of body roll associated also. Any ideas? There's nothing obviously loose or broken I can find. It's always been this way and I thought the new shocks & hubs would help but didn't. It doesn't shake or shimmy and rides great in a straight line. Any ideas?
Thanks,
Hugh

[Tom Wesenberg]

"Going around a curve at speeds 40+ the car tends to increase the arc of the turn on its own. There is a lot of body roll associated also. Any ideas?"

Yep, you're driving an antique car with a high center of gravity at a fast speed around curves. It's just physics.

[mshmodela]

I will say my car had a lot of body roll without any shocks... I installed reproduction of the original made by Bill Stipe --car handles so much better... I can easily drive it with one hand without any worries of a bump tossing the whole body around...

[Synchro909]

Yup again. These cars are over 80 years old. Don't expect them to do what a modern car does. What you describe is known as understeer - not so uncommon even in today's cars but they sorta get away with it partly because of the better tyres and suspension system. Also, the tyres on these cars are made with a totally different construction. That is, Bias or cross ply rather than radial ply.
If you imagine one of these high profile, narrow tyres as you go around a corner, they distort at the ground because of the sideways pressure on them while the rest of the tyre is still undeformed. As a new piece of tyre comes into contact with the road, it too distorts and the tyre "walks" across the road. This makes the car feel as though it is not cornering as quickly as it should (because it's not). The only way to overcome this is slow down or pay your $ and get radial ply tyres for it. Proceed with grace, not pace.

[VFRhugh]

It's all new to me so thanks for the replies. I'm having a lot of fun with my A and learning on the go.
Hugh

[VFRhugh]

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Rereading my question i got it wrong, the car tends to turn more than I am expecting!!! It was alarming the first time it happened.

[mshmodela]

If you're referring to the steering relative to a modern car, I was as well alarmed as you said when I first drove my car a little over a year ago. How much steering play does your car have? Here's a link do a great document on 2 tooth steering:

http://modelabasics.com/twoTooth.htm

[Jim/GA]

Welcome to the world of the Model A!

Where abouts in Texas are you?

[J Wade]

Welcome to the Barn. Lots of good info here. I'm in San Angelo. Don't know how close you are but if I can help let me know.

[Henry1953]

Sounds like you need to check the front tires for proper toe in.

[VFRhugh]

I haven't checked the toe, good suggestion.
Thanks

[Mike V. Florida]

Welcome to the hobby ad to Fordbarn.

The model A drives like a Model A. It has differences from modern cars which to most of us is what we enjoy the most. If my A rode just like my modern car I don't think I would enjoy it a tenth as much.

Do you have any books?

The very first one is the owners manual.

Do you have an Model A club near by? If within 60 or so miles join. Nothing like in person assistance to go along with the help here.

DO NOT BE TEMPTED TO CHANGE THINGS JUST BECAUSE. More problems are caused and money wasted when you say to yourself, "newer has to be better". True story, an owner found an A parked in a barn for years. Bought it for what I consider a steal of $5000 dollars. Figured "The engine is old, I'll get it rebuilt", $5000.00 later when the owner picked it up, the rebuilder told him the engine was in great shape to start off with.

Moral, he more than likely could have gotten several years out of the engine with just a going through and spent the 5 grand else where on the car, like gas to drive the hell out of it.

[Mike V. Florida]

May I suggest that additional questions, beside the turning one here, be addressed in separate posts with a real quick description in the title. It makes it easier for us to follow and get you the answers you need. It also makes it easier for you to follow if you know everything in the thread has to do with only one problem at a time.

[Tom Wesenberg]

Hugh, does VFR stand for "VERY FAST RACER"?

If it does, you'll have to trade your Model A in for a Studebaker Avanti.

Model A's really are a fun car when driven like they were built to drive. I wish you hadn't been so quick to go to hydraulic brakes. I consider mechanical brakes safer because you don't have to worry about rubber hoses breaking, lines rusting, or cylinders leaking. Properly adjusted mechaical brakes can stop very well.

My 28 Phaeton doesn't have the shocks back on yet, and when I take a corner on a gravel road, it does a hop, skip, and a jump. If I drove too fast it could spin the rear end right around. You say your car has modern shocks, so you shouldn't have the hop, skip, and jump like my car has.

Why do you want to take the engine apart?

[BILL WILLIAMSON]

Check the tire pressures, On Minerva, with 19" tires, they DIDN'T even look LOW, but she rolled around on turns, like a TURD rolling!! Tires had ONLY 12 Lbs pressure!! My Dog alerted me to the problem, whin he "MARKED" all 4 wheels!! I knew something was wrong, as he NEVER had peed on my wheels before. YES, Buster T. CAN "TALK"!
Bill W.

[Mike Crehan]

It's mostly been said above but once you have got all your alignments correct and your shocks and springs controlling body roll induced weight transfer (made more difficult with the A transverse spring suspension design) then you need to start playing with tyre pressures. To begin set all 4 wheels the same. If the back is letting go as you describe let 2 psi out of the rears and add 2 psi to the fronts. If the front starts to go first then put a bit back in the rears. Eventually you will get them balanced to the point where all 4 slide together. At that point you have reached the limit of your suspension system and either need to live with it or start modifying it.

[mhsprecher]

You will get a lot of suggestions here and most of them will be good.

One point I would make is with regard to speed. Our cars will go 55, but, without an overdrive, I would limit that. My car seems happiest at around 45.

I just changed to radials on one of my cars and it has been a great choice. Ride and handling are much improved.

[JohnLaVoy]

Welcome! As you are finding there are nuances of driving an 80+ year old car. Join a local chapter and you will find people that have been doing it for years that can help you get the "bugs" worked out and show you how to have a great time with the car.

[VFRhugh]

My member name refers to my motorcycle. A 2000 year model Honda VFR. I'm not interested in driving my A fast at all. That's what the Honda is for.

I do have two of Les Andrews handbooks and have used them extensively. I have been attacking things as I come to them. Searching past posts has been very helpful along with my handbooks. Why pull the motor? Although I have receipts and a couple of restoration photos, the previous owner suffered through hurricane Ike in 2008 and lost some of his files for the build. I know the engine was rebuilt but that's all. I would like to check all the clearances and it seems like that would be easier with the engine on a stand. As far as the turning question it seems the Model A is very sensitive to properly adjusted components. I'll pay more attention to tire pressure an front end specs.
Thanks again,
Hugh

[BILL WILLIAMSON]

By the way, Hugh,
WELCOME to our hide out. GREAT fun & info here, try not to get offended when some posters get "CUTE" or smart assed, it's kinda' hard to get across info with just a keyboard! IF we could talk, use our hands, draw pictures, it would be easier.
Has anybody mentioned adjusting your shocks? Read up on it, it's EASY & "COULD" play a part in your cornering "FEEL"! Scribe a mark on the adjusters, so you can go back to the beginning mark, if necessary. Adjustment DOES make a difference! There's NO standard setting, as the viscosity of the oil & the condition of the shocks comes into play!
Without adjusting, Vermin took the speed bumps "PERFECT"---Minerva took them like she had "SPORTS" SUSPENSION!
ALSO, make sure the "U" bolts that mount the springs to the crossmembers are REALLY TIGHT! When Buster T,, my Dog, wakes up, I'll ask him if he has any more ideas to add.
Bill W.

[VFRhugh]

Wow, air pressure is a big deal!! Went from 29# to 36.5# in the front and 30 to 35 in the rear. About 80% improvement . There is a little wear in the king pin spendle though

[Mike Crehan]

Yes it is. I learned this when racing very low powered 1920s cars and once I moved to aero engined stuff with solid rear ends it became even more critical. For road and / or in the wet your pressures now sound a little high but you have established a benchmark variation between front and rears so now you can try letting them all down a bit but maintain the % variation and then readjust to get it just right. I have loads of notes for all my cars on what worked where and when.

[Mitch//pa]

welcome to the club and enjoy your new / old car..

[Synchro909]

VFR, I think it is worth remembering that we tend to ask waaay more of these cars than they were ever meant to do, particularly the speeds at which we drive them. When these cars were new, they shared the road with horses and were more than adequate for those speeds. Today is a different world run at a different pace.

[BILL WILLIAMSON]

Originally Posted by Synchro909

VFR, I think it is worth remembering that we tend to ask waaay more of these cars than they were ever meant to do, particularly the speeds at which we drive them. When these cars were new, they shared the road with horses and were more than adequate for those speeds. Today is a different world run at a different pace.

RIGHT ON, Synchro,
My new 48 Volt scooter runs 19 MPH, as fast as we used to drive on OLD country roads!
Bill W.

[armchair67]

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Welcome. I've had my 31 Tudor for a little under a year. It's been my everyday driver. I've learned a lot that's for sure. My expectations were low as I knew I was going from a modern, 400hp Cadillac to a very not modern, 40hp ford. The first time I drove it I took it up to thirty five miles an hour and that seemed entirely too fast lol. Now that I have had the car I've gone through the front suspension, finding that the previous owner, who restored the car about a dozen years ago, did many things improperly. Using cheap parts or leaving old parts that should have been replaced, installing items but not adjusting them properly. I've redone that, and my car handles and steers infinitely better now. But yeah, as said above, if you try and compare it to anything even remotely modern, you'll be disappointed. Enjoy it for what it is. These are really good cars!

[Mike V. Florida]

Originally Posted by armchair67

Welcome. I've had my 31 Tudor for a little under a year. It's been my everyday driver. I've learned a lot that's for sure. My expectations were low as I knew I was going from a modern, 400hp Cadillac to a very not modern, 40hp ford. The first time I drove it I took it up to thirty five miles an hour and that seemed entirely too fast lol. Now that I have had the car I've gone through the front suspension, finding that the previous owner, who restored the car about a dozen years ago, did many things improperly. Using cheap parts or leaving old parts that should have been replaced, installing items but not adjusting them properly. I've redone that, and my car handles and steers infinitely better now. But yeah, as said above, if you try and compare it to anything even remotely modern, you'll be disappointed. Enjoy it for what it is. These are really good cars!

Hear hear!

[BILL WILLIAMSON]

Originally Posted by armchair67

Welcome. I've had my 31 Tudor for a little under a year. It's been my everyday driver. I've learned a lot that's for sure. My expectations were low as I knew I was going from a modern, 400hp Cadillac to a very not modern, 40hp ford. The first time I drove it I took it up to thirty five miles an hour and that seemed entirely too fast lol. Now that I have had the car I've gone through the front suspension, finding that the previous owner, who restored the car about a dozen years ago, did many things improperly. Using cheap parts or leaving old parts that should have been replaced, installing items but not adjusting them properly. I've redone that, and my car handles and steers infinitely better now. But yeah, as said above, if you try and compare it to anything even remotely modern, you'll be disappointed. Enjoy it for what it is. These are really good cars!

A dear friend of Chiefs' did a lot of research & carefully restored a BLACK Town Car. Chief said it looked even BETTER than a NEW one & operated properly. The owner was disappointed that it DIDN'T go HMMMMMMN, & sold it shortly
Bill W.

[burner31]

Been a die-hard Chevy man for the past 45 years, always wanted a Model A.
Finally got one in Dec. 2014, I've seen them, but never work on one let alone rode in one or even touched one for that matter.
Wish I would have gotten one 40 years ago.
Now I have the best of both worlds.

Welcome to the wonderful world of Model A's.
have fun and drive safe

[marc hildebrant]

burner31,

Welcome to Model A's. In the 1970's I raced a Model A with my 1933 Chevrolet....

I won the race.

Marc

[Jacksonlll]

If you are going around a corner at 45MPH, you are driving too fast. The old little car just has a two point body mount system. If you think your tudor rolls, you should turn a sharp corner in a heavy town sedan.
I think at that speed and on a tight curve, your ass end is starting to come around making you think it is the front wheels. That is not a sports car. If you are in a hurry, you are in the wrong car.
As far as pulling the engine to check it out: that's busy work to a running engine. It might be fun busy work, not sure many people would do that to a running engine. You would learn a ton if you did it.

[CarlG]

I must be learning TONS! Just getting ready to pull mine for the third time in 18 months! Hopefully the last!

[Willie Krash]

Welcome Hugh, life in the slow lane is quite fun. Good people here. Go slow on all things. These cars have personality and like your first girlfriend get to know her. I see people make mods and fixing what ain't broke all the time. Hey what can you do at 3 1/2 MPH in first gear?
Have fun 'cause owning a Model A the fun starts, and the cussin too.

[VFRhugh]

Hey I get it. Go slow & enjoy the ride. I admit it has taken a little seat time to adjust. I'm still happy with the modifications I've done. Also grateful for this resource. It was used in the decision process often.
Thanks again for all the replies,
Hugh

[Mike V. Florida]

Originally Posted by VFRhugh

Hey I get it. Go slow & enjoy the ride. I admit it has taken a little seat time to adjust. I'm still happy with the modifications I've done. Also grateful for this resource. It was used in the decision process often.
Thanks again for all the replies,
Hugh

That's the important thing, but as I said before, resist the temptation to just modify things just because. There was a guy on Facebook that bought an A, sent out the engine for a 5 grand rebuild, paid his money and was told the engine internals were in great shape when received. Five grand wasted? You be the judge.