The Ford Barn

eystein · 12-27-2015, 04:55 PM

Checked the anti freeze at the top of the radiator and to my surprize it was only holding down to +5 deg F. So I decided to drain off some coolant from the drain cock at the bottom in order to make room for filling more anti freeze, but to my surprise I saw that the half gallon that I drained off was deep blue in color. When I measured the freezing point of what I drained off at the bottom, I discovered it was good for -58 deg F.

I then poured what I drained off at the bottom back at the top of the radiator.

The car then sat for two weeks, and now its the same story again. -4 deg F freezing point at the top of the radiator and -58 deg F at the bottom.

How can this be? Does the anti-freeze separate from the water over time and can the engine freeze up at the top while it is protected at the bottom.

Tom Wesenberg · 12-27-2015, 06:49 PM

I've never heard of this happening before.
What brand or type of antifreeze are you using?

Tomy Turbos · 12-27-2015, 07:23 PM

Antifreeze is completely hygroscopic. The two substances combine into one.

The only way this can happen is that they were added separately and then left uncirculated.

You didn't say if the car has been run for any length of time in the meanwhile. If it hasn't, therein lies your problem. If it HAS, look to the T-Stat and then the Water Pump.

A 'backyard' test is to take the T-Stat out of the car, run it up to Temp, then shut it off with an electric fan in front of the Radiator, thereby causing a thermosiphon which will force the fluids to circulate. Then re-test.

While you're waiting, toss the T-Stat in a small pan on the stove along with your spousal-unit's kitchen thermometer to see if it starts to open at the specified temperature.

If the T-Stat works and it's not circulating, you need a Water Pump or you have MAJOR blockage.

Pinesdune · 12-27-2015, 07:40 PM

It should never seperate, no matter how old or what ratio of water/antifreeze mix. Drain it immediateley!!! I don't know if your car sits outside or whatever, but in Norway you can pretty much have the same weather as Canada from what I've heard, and I wouldn't want to risk cracking the block if the power goes out for a day and in the rush the car gets missed. You can watch it for seperation in the pails too once you've drained it.

Mitch//pa · 12-27-2015, 07:42 PM

I'm wondering what your using that's a deep blue? Also is it full strength or 50/50

MikeK · 12-27-2015, 09:14 PM

Sponsored Links (Register now to hide all advertisements)

That blue antifreeze is likely a phosphate based OAT engine coolant specified by some Asian vehicles. It is an extended life formula but may suffer breakdown separation if either the pH goes awry from leaking combustion gasses or by adding any of several non-compatible substances such as IAT coolants containing amines, Na-silicates (leak sealers), or adding water pump lubes (soluble oils).

First, check for leaking combustion gasses into the coolant. If none, flush it out, switch to a simpler ethylene or propylene glycol based coolant. Don't add any "snake oils" to it and you should be good for extended storage without the density separation issues.

Gold Digger · 12-27-2015, 10:48 PM

Four years ago I bought 2 fifty-five gallon barrels of anti-freeze from a distributor to put in all my dozers and equipment. The next year I checked the freezing point and was surprised to find out it was only good for 10* above. I first thought someone had stolen my antifreeze and filled up the radiators with water. I went back to the distributor and told him about it and he informed me that it was only good for one year. He called it seasonal antifreeze I had bought. He said I needed permanent antifreeze. Now days I only buy Preston brand full strength.

eystein · 12-28-2015, 12:50 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Tom Wesenberg

I've never heard of this happening before.
What brand or type of antifreeze are you using?

Well, neither have I seen this before either. So I was really surprised. I think that even if the solution had not been agitated by running the engine after the last time I filled the system, the mixture should still have evened itself out given several weeks time.

Anyway, here is the link to the antifreeze data sheet. I cant see anything peculiar from that.

http://www.biltema.no/BiltemaDocumen...361784_TDS.pdf

Tom Wesenberg · 12-28-2015, 12:59 PM

The link won't open for me.

eystein · 12-28-2015, 03:59 PM

Try this link

MikeK · 12-28-2015, 04:06 PM

Thank you for posting the link! The TDS (technical data sheet) link definitely confirms it is an OAT type antifreeze! Their equilibrium is often very sensitive to changes in pH and contamination. If you didn't put any additional additives into it, then the buffer in the coolant, set to maintain pH 8.0-9.0 was likely expended. I suspect a head gasket leaking exhaust into the water.

12-27-2015, 04:55 PM	#1
eystein Senior Member Join Date: Jul 2010 Location: Oslo, Norway Posts: 521	Anti-freeze Separation ? Checked the anti freeze at the top of the radiator and to my surprize it was only holding down to +5 deg F. So I decided to drain off some coolant from the drain cock at the bottom in order to make room for filling more anti freeze, but to my surprise I saw that the half gallon that I drained off was deep blue in color. When I measured the freezing point of what I drained off at the bottom, I discovered it was good for -58 deg F. I then poured what I drained off at the bottom back at the top of the radiator. The car then sat for two weeks, and now its the same story again. -4 deg F freezing point at the top of the radiator and -58 deg F at the bottom. How can this be? Does the anti-freeze separate from the water over time and can the engine freeze up at the top while it is protected at the bottom.

12-27-2015, 06:49 PM	#2
Tom Wesenberg Senior Member Join Date: May 2010 Location: Mpls, MN Posts: 27,582	Re: Anti-freeze Separation ? I've never heard of this happening before. What brand or type of antifreeze are you using?

12-27-2015, 07:23 PM	#3
Tomy Turbos Member Join Date: Nov 2015 Location: Columbus, OH Posts: 52	Re: Anti-freeze Separation ? Antifreeze is completely hygroscopic. The two substances combine into one. The only way this can happen is that they were added separately and then left uncirculated. You didn't say if the car has been run for any length of time in the meanwhile. If it hasn't, therein lies your problem. If it HAS, look to the T-Stat and then the Water Pump. A 'backyard' test is to take the T-Stat out of the car, run it up to Temp, then shut it off with an electric fan in front of the Radiator, thereby causing a thermosiphon which will force the fluids to circulate. Then re-test. While you're waiting, toss the T-Stat in a small pan on the stove along with your spousal-unit's kitchen thermometer to see if it starts to open at the specified temperature. If the T-Stat works and it's not circulating, you need a Water Pump or you have MAJOR blockage. __________________ There are only two kinds of cars: Those that need fixed and those which are going to.

12-27-2015, 07:40 PM	#4
Pinesdune Senior Member Join Date: Oct 2015 Location: Canada Posts: 414	Re: Anti-freeze Separation ? It should never seperate, no matter how old or what ratio of water/antifreeze mix. Drain it immediateley!!! I don't know if your car sits outside or whatever, but in Norway you can pretty much have the same weather as Canada from what I've heard, and I wouldn't want to risk cracking the block if the power goes out for a day and in the rush the car gets missed. You can watch it for seperation in the pails too once you've drained it.

12-27-2015, 07:42 PM	#5
Mitch//pa BANNED Join Date: May 2010 Location: Bucks County, PA Posts: 11,454	Re: Anti-freeze Separation ? I'm wondering what your using that's a deep blue? Also is it full strength or 50/50

12-27-2015, 09:14 PM	#6
MikeK Senior Member Join Date: May 2010 Location: Windy City Posts: 2,919	Re: Anti-freeze Separation ? Sponsored Links (Register now to hide all advertisements) That blue antifreeze is likely a phosphate based OAT engine coolant specified by some Asian vehicles. It is an extended life formula but may suffer breakdown separation if either the pH goes awry from leaking combustion gasses or by adding any of several non-compatible substances such as IAT coolants containing amines, Na-silicates (leak sealers), or adding water pump lubes (soluble oils). First, check for leaking combustion gasses into the coolant. If none, flush it out, switch to a simpler ethylene or propylene glycol based coolant. Don't add any "snake oils" to it and you should be good for extended storage without the density separation issues.

12-27-2015, 10:48 PM	#7
Gold Digger Senior Member Join Date: Nov 2011 Location: Arkansas & Alaska Posts: 643	Re: Anti-freeze Separation ? Four years ago I bought 2 fifty-five gallon barrels of anti-freeze from a distributor to put in all my dozers and equipment. The next year I checked the freezing point and was surprised to find out it was only good for 10* above. I first thought someone had stolen my antifreeze and filled up the radiators with water. I went back to the distributor and told him about it and he informed me that it was only good for one year. He called it seasonal antifreeze I had bought. He said I needed permanent antifreeze. Now days I only buy Preston brand full strength.

12-28-2015, 12:59 PM	#9
Tom Wesenberg Senior Member Join Date: May 2010 Location: Mpls, MN Posts: 27,582	Re: Anti-freeze Separation ? The link won't open for me.

12-28-2015, 04:06 PM	#11
MikeK Senior Member Join Date: May 2010 Location: Windy City Posts: 2,919	Re: Anti-freeze Separation ? Thank you for posting the link! The TDS (technical data sheet) link definitely confirms it is an OAT type antifreeze! Their equilibrium is often very sensitive to changes in pH and contamination. If you didn't put any additional additives into it, then the buffer in the coolant, set to maintain pH 8.0-9.0 was likely expended. I suspect a head gasket leaking exhaust into the water.