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Old 07-09-2019, 08:23 AM   #1
Forddan
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Default Gas Shutoff/empty carburetor for overnight/long term parking.

Hi

I have a very small carburetor leaking (fee drops/day). I have read many threads and I know what will be the steps to follow to find the cause.

I also think that my gas shutoff valve probably is not closing as it has to.

Because the car is running very well as it is now, I would like to leave the carburetor work for the winter season. When car is not driven.

In the meantime, this is my question:

Is it good or bad to park the car, close the shutoff valve and allowed the engine to used the gas left in the carburetor?

I drive the car every week. I would do that for the overnight or full week parking only.

This could also help me to identify if my shutoff valve is not working well. I assume that, if after the carburetor was emptied, then start to leak, means that gas went to it during the week as a consequence of a faulty gas shutoff valve.

Thank you !!!
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Old 07-09-2019, 09:26 AM   #2
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Default Re: Gas Shutoff/empty carburetor for overnight/long term parking.

You can rebuild the carb and shutoff at the same time, as well as the fuel filter on the firewall. Drain the tank into a couple gas cans. While you have the shutoff valve out replace the pencil filter as well.
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Old 07-09-2019, 10:13 AM   #3
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Default Re: Gas Shutoff/empty carburetor for overnight/long term parking.

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You can rebuild the carb and shutoff at the same time, as well as the fuel filter on the firewall. Drain the tank into a couple gas cans. While you have the shutoff valve out replace the pencil filter as well.
Thank you !! I will do that during winter time. In the meantime:

can I park the car with the carburetor empty of gas ?
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Old 07-09-2019, 10:13 AM   #4
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Default Re: Gas Shutoff/empty carburetor for overnight/long term parking.

I got in the habit when the gasoline would gook up the tip of jets when sitting a week or few, stock carb, fuel system---- in the 10 years I have been doing it no problems---- the zenith is the easiest carb to clean, work on, rarely is problem in upper half after proper restoration, I just removed lower on the car, easy to check float operations, fuel flow--- the gas line is still connected
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Old 07-09-2019, 10:46 AM   #5
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Default Re: Gas Shutoff/empty carburetor for overnight/long term parking.

I shut my gas off and let it idle till just starts to spit, then I turn off key. I do it not only because my carb does the same as yours but as a safety precaution. Been doing for quite a while and have no problems. Just have to remember to let carb fill up (1 minute) before starting up again.
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Old 07-09-2019, 11:08 AM   #6
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Default Re: Gas Shutoff/empty carburetor for overnight/long term parking.

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I shut my gas off and let it idle till just starts to spit, then I turn off key. I do it not only because my carb does the same as yours but as a safety precaution. Been doing for quite a while and have no problems. Just have to remember to let carb fill up (1 minute) before starting up again.
Thank you very much for letting me know that there is no negative effects of doing that. Iwill do the same.

Best !!
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Old 07-09-2019, 12:22 PM   #7
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Default Re: Gas Shutoff/empty carburetor for overnight/long term parking.

I religiously shut off the gas and let the engine die. I do that every time I know it will be awhile til I drive it again. Also every winter I take the carb off, check ball valve and float, and spray the whole thing out w/carb cleaner. Really keeps car running smoothly.
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Old 07-09-2019, 12:41 PM   #8
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Default Re: Gas Shutoff/empty carburetor for overnight/long term parking.

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I religiously shut off the gas and let the engine die. I do that every time I know it will be awhile til I drive it again. Really keeps car running smoothly.
I do this with all of my small engines as well. Even with non ethanol gas I do this with engines on sprayers, mowers,,,,,,,. Works well with n negative results that I've seen.
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Old 07-09-2019, 01:58 PM   #9
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Default Re: Gas Shutoff/empty carburetor for overnight/long term parking.

I don't have a leaky carb but after each use I shut off the gas valve and let it idle for a minute or so before turning off the motor; then I turn off the battery power creating a two way safety buffer. Never had a problem starting the car the next time.
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Old 07-09-2019, 02:06 PM   #10
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Default Re: Gas Shutoff/empty carburetor for overnight/long term parking.

When checking for leaks additionally check the inside bottom of the air intake with your finger, sometimes leaks are so slow it evaporates and you do not see it.


As said above no harm in running the bowl dry.


If you want to check for leaks - if the carb leaks with the fuel shutoff off, then the shutoff and the carb float valve may both be leaking. If it leaks from the weep hole in the air intake and does not stop over long time, you have both issues. If it leaks a little and stops, possible it is just the carb, and leaks until the gas line has drained into the carb bowl due to the leak.


How to tell? Turn off the fuel valve, drain the carb by removing the drain bolt, allow to sit for a while so it is completely drained, then put a small container (small jar/soup can/etc.) with a tissue or piece of paper in the bottom and leave overnight. Then check it. If there is gas in the container or the paper/tissue is stained your fuel valve is leaking.


Fix the fuel valve. Then fix the carb if it leaks when the fuel valve is left on overnight.
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Old 07-09-2019, 03:24 PM   #11
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Default Re: Gas Shutoff/empty carburetor for overnight/long term parking.

If you have an early car with the shutoff inside, when you drain the tank be aware that not all the fuel will come out until you unscrew the shutoff valve. Then about another pint or so will come out all over your floor mats if you don't have something ready to catch it.
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Old 07-09-2019, 04:26 PM   #12
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Default Re: Gas Shutoff/empty carburetor for overnight/long term parking.

Thank you all for your suggestions and sharing your experience!!!

I just started the car, let it run for a few minutes, close the shutoff valve and let engine die.

Then, open the valve and wait 1 minute, as suggested. Car started without any issue.

I repeated the process and let it now with the carburetor empty.

Tomorrow I will check if I have a leak. If I have one, that will mean that the shutoff valve is not good either.

Let's see. I will report back tomorrow.

Now is time to go to my Model A club meeting and continue learning from the experts, and have some nice coffee with cookies :-)

Thank you all again !!!!!

Ps: Yes, I do have a Tudor 1929 with the shutoff inside.
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Old 07-09-2019, 04:37 PM   #13
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Default Re: Gas Shutoff/empty carburetor for overnight/long term parking.

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Old 07-09-2019, 05:40 PM   #14
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Default Re: Gas Shutoff/empty carburetor for overnight/long term parking.

\Put an electric fuel shut-off solenoid on it and forget about it. JMO
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Old 07-09-2019, 06:09 PM   #15
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Default Re: Gas Shutoff/empty carburetor for overnight/long term parking.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Jim M View Post
I shut my gas off and let it idle till just starts to spit, then I turn off key. I do it not only because my carb does the same as yours but as a safety precaution. Been doing for quite a while and have no problems. Just have to remember to let carb fill up (1 minute) before starting up again.


Me too... Chap
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Old 07-09-2019, 06:17 PM   #16
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Default Re: Gas Shutoff/empty carburetor for overnight/long term parking.

Had the same problem. In an effort to troubleshoot, ran a plastic tube from the sediment bowl to a plastic bottle and left it overnight with the valve closed. Had about two ounces of fuel in the bottle by the next morning. A new valve from Bratton's fixed the problem. Removing the valve is a no-brainer but be aware about a cup of fuel will drain out of the empty tank when the valve is unthreaded. Recommend teflon tape on the valve threads when installing, and also install a new pencil filter on the valve. Good luck.
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Old 07-10-2019, 09:35 AM   #17
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Default Re: Gas Shutoff/empty carburetor for overnight/long term parking.

Quote:
Recommend teflon tape on the valve threads when installing
Make sure that you use gasoline resistant tape.
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Old 07-10-2019, 09:07 PM   #18
Forddan
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Default Re: Gas Shutoff/empty carburetor for overnight/long term parking.

After 24 hours, gas filled the carburetor. That means the shutoff valve is not closing correctly.

I will change the valve, but for now I will make it simple. I have ordered the following.



Thank you all for the comments. From now on I will park the car with the carburetor empty and will stay in that way with the new valve.

Best !!
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Old 07-10-2019, 09:14 PM   #19
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Default Re: Gas Shutoff/empty carburetor for overnight/long term parking.

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Originally Posted by katy View Post
Make sure that you use gasoline resistant tape.
Thank you !!

I do have the gasoline resistant yellow teflon tape. I am also using SealAll.

Best
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Old 07-10-2019, 09:59 PM   #20
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Default Re: Gas Shutoff/empty carburetor for overnight/long term parking.

Quote:
Originally Posted by wmws View Post
If you have an early car with the shutoff inside, when you drain the tank be aware that not all the fuel will come out until you unscrew the shutoff valve. Then about another pint or so will come out all over your floor mats if you don't have something ready to catch it.
Jack up the car and place jack stands on the passenger side of the car so it is higher so as to get the last bit of gasoline away from the fuel valve before you remove it.
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Old 07-10-2019, 10:02 PM   #21
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Default Re: Gas Shutoff/empty carburetor for overnight/long term parking.

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Originally Posted by 1crosscut View Post
Jack up the car and place jack stands on the passenger side of the car so it is higher so as to get the last bit of gasoline away from the fuel valve before you remove it.

Nice !! I will remember this.

Thank you !
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Old 07-11-2019, 06:15 AM   #22
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Default Re: Gas Shutoff/empty carburetor for overnight/long term parking.

My dad always ran the gas out of the carb on his Model A and I do the same, with no ill effects.
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Old 07-11-2019, 10:51 AM   #23
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Default Re: Gas Shutoff/empty carburetor for overnight/long term parking.

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Make sure that you use gasoline resistant tape.
Also, if/when you use teflon tape on the fuel fittings pipe threads be sure to place it 1 or 2 threads back from the end to ensure that none of it gets into places where it's not wanted.
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Old 07-11-2019, 01:34 PM   #24
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Default Re: Gas Shutoff/empty carburetor for overnight/long term parking.

Usually a pencil filter is recommended that sticks up into the tank and is fitted into the original inside style shutoff. With that style shut off not sure how a pencil filter would be installed. Purpose of a pencil filter is to keep rust/etc out of the fuel valve.
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Old 07-11-2019, 04:29 PM   #25
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Default Re: Gas Shutoff/empty carburetor for overnight/long term parking.

Quote:
Originally Posted by katy View Post
Also, if/when you use teflon tape on the fuel fittings pipe threads be sure to place it 1 or 2 threads back from the end to ensure that none of it gets into places where it's not wanted.
Good point !!!! Thank you
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Old 07-11-2019, 04:33 PM   #26
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Default Re: Gas Shutoff/empty carburetor for overnight/long term parking.

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Originally Posted by 30 Closed Cab PU View Post
Usually a pencil filter is recommended that sticks up into the tank and is fitted into the original inside style shutoff. With that style shut off not sure how a pencil filter would be installed. Purpose of a pencil filter is to keep rust/etc out of the fuel valve.
You are correct. This is just a replacement of the interior gas line with the addition of a modern shutoff valve, that could also fail in the long term.

I will do the correct job at some point by replacing the original valve and adding the pencil filter (could be is there already). Could be the previous owner added. But for now I want this faster and easier fix. Not to much time to do the other job.

Thank you !!!
Daniel
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Old 07-11-2019, 08:47 PM   #27
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Default Re: Gas Shutoff/empty carburetor for overnight/long term parking.

So what you ordered attaches to the original, so is in addition to the original? If so did not know that
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Old 07-11-2019, 10:13 PM   #28
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Default Re: Gas Shutoff/empty carburetor for overnight/long term parking.

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Originally Posted by 30 Closed Cab PU View Post
So what you ordered attaches to the original, so is in addition to the original? If so did not know that
Correct. Attaches to the original. Goes from the original to the firewall. You do not need to close the original any more.

Best !!!
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Old 07-14-2019, 06:27 AM   #29
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Default Re: Gas Shutoff/empty carburetor for overnight/long term parking.



Reporting results:

The pictured shutoff valve didn't fit in my 1929 Tudor.

I took out the interior gas line. To find that the long arm that will attach to the original shutoff valve was "too long". It was around 0.4" (1 cm) longer. The tubing is very rigid so there is no way to bent it a bit.

Moreover, the valve will not close because it crashed the GAV rod.

So 2 issues in my 1929 car:

-The Long tubing side was "too long".
-Valve position is incorrect. Needs to be moved to be nearest to the original shutoff valve to avoid the GAV rod (more to the left of its actual placing)

Tomorrow I will call Bratton to check how we solve this. Most probably they will have to refund and I will get an "original valve replacement with the pencil filter". Then I will wait the winter season to empty the tank and do the correct job.

My fast and easy solution didn't work in my car.

Best !!!
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Old 07-14-2019, 06:57 PM   #30
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Default Re: Gas Shutoff/empty carburetor for overnight/long term parking.

Good Sunday Afternoon to all...I have run the Bratton's Shut Off Valve in my fuel line, after the original valve for about 15 years or so. It is very reliable and has given no trouble. I have left the stock original valve alone in the on position all this time. There have been no issues at all...Ernie in Arizona
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Old 07-14-2019, 07:45 PM   #31
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Default Re: Gas Shutoff/empty carburetor for overnight/long term parking.

Forddan,


While a new functioning under tank shut off valve will stop the drip, there is the chance you still haven't found the issue inside the carburetor.


With the gas shut off, remove the lower bowl, set it level on your bench and fill the bowl 1/2 full. Check in the AM the bases of the two jets in the throat, if wet = leaking gaskets.


Same experiment with the float & float valve. Using rubber bands to hold the float up closing the valve, check the next day for wetness = leaking float valve gasket. Also the machined surface where the float valve & gasket sit must be smooth, not coarse & pitted.


Hope this helps, JB
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Old 07-14-2019, 09:09 PM   #32
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Default Re: Gas Shutoff/empty carburetor for overnight/long term parking.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Ernie Vitucci View Post
Good Sunday Afternoon to all...I have run the Bratton's Shut Off Valve in my fuel line, after the original valve for about 15 years or so. It is very reliable and has given no trouble. I have left the stock original valve alone in the on position all this time. There have been no issues at all...Ernie in Arizona
I do not have nothing bad to said about the inline valve as I was not able to install it.

I just said that the design does not fit my standar 1929 Tudor. The long tubing it too long , so I cannot fit it. And the valve arm crash the GAV rod. So you can not fully close or open.

Best
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Old 07-14-2019, 09:12 PM   #33
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Default Re: Gas Shutoff/empty carburetor for overnight/long term parking.

Quote:
Originally Posted by jb-ob View Post
Forddan,


While a new functioning under tank shut off valve will stop the drip, there is the chance you still haven't found the issue inside the carburetor.


With the gas shut off, remove the lower bowl, set it level on your bench and fill the bowl 1/2 full. Check in the AM the bases of the two jets in the throat, if wet = leaking gaskets.


Same experiment with the float & float valve. Using rubber bands to hold the float up closing the valve, check the next day for wetness = leaking float valve gasket. Also the machined surface where the float valve & gasket sit must be smooth, not coarse & pitted.


Hope this helps, JB
Thank you. I will try this during the winter.

Best !
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Old 07-15-2019, 09:28 AM   #34
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Default Re: Gas Shutoff/empty carburetor for overnight/long term parking.

Quote:
The long tubing it too long , so I cannot fit it.
You could shorten it up and reflare it.

Quote:
And the valve arm crash the GAV rod. So you can not fully close or open.
Maybe you could rotate it to a different plane?
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Old 07-15-2019, 12:37 PM   #35
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Default Re: Gas Shutoff/empty carburetor for overnight/long term parking.

Quote:
Originally Posted by katy View Post
You could shorten it up and reflare it.


Maybe you could rotate it to a different plane?

You are correct. All that can be done. But that isn't my idea of an easy solution to solve my undertank shutoff valve small leak.

Bratton's customer service was EXCELLENT!!!!.

They offer me to do the modifications you suggested, but they concluded that it will be better to refund the $$$.

After that decision I ordered, from Bratton's, the under tank shutoff valve and pencil filter. Winter project.

Again, thank you all for all your comments and tips. They are very helpful for a newbie as I am in Model A and car mechanics.

Best !!!
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Old 08-06-2019, 03:00 PM   #36
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Default Re: Gas Shutoff/empty carburetor for overnight/long term parking.

Update

Bratton's refunded my money. They have an excellent customer service and I bought from them a repro shutoff valve and pencil filter.

I also found that Mikes's A Fordable Parts have the same in-line modern shutoff valve. I decided to give it a try. In this case, the long tubing was shorter and the valve was placed with the handle looking upside. In this way, the handle movement was not blocked by the GAV rod (see pictures).

After an hour of hand reshaping of the tubes, I was able to install it. The connections are not leaking, neither the carburetor. It has been 24 hours since I installed it and so far so good. No gas smell at the barn and all is dry. I tested the car for a mile and all is fine.

That's all. I will keep the "Bratton's original repro shutoff valve" just in case.

Best to all and thank you for your comments !!!

Daniel


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Old 08-06-2019, 07:29 PM   #37
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Default Re: Gas Shutoff/empty carburetor for overnight/long term parking.

I found this video and it's worth watching I believe if you have any flared fuel lines. The guy takes copper washers and makes gaskets out of them.

https://youtu.be/u7WULLs2nV8
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