trouble removing starter brushes

[Henry's Lady's Man]

My starter brushes' wear are getting close to Les Andrew's recommended replacement. Two brushes are simply bolted to the starter's body (ground), but the two brushes on the ends of the field coils are soldered on. Now, I'm new at soldering, but I've tried a 70watt soldering iron and a thin butane soldering pencil. Neither has gotten this joint hot enough to melt the wire free, and you have to be careful not to burn thru the insulator strip that is against the body, or burn the insulation on the brush's wire.
A friend suggested that some things are copper-soldered and have to be cut off. What advice is out there for this?
(The brushes stick 5/16 beyond the holder; THE BOOK says they don't need replacing if at least 1/4 (4/16) is exposed below the holder. So, "technically", i may still be ok for a while. I don't think these brushes wear fast at all. They may be original. I bought the brushes as I am doing the bushings too.)

Bottom line, I still would like to get these new brushes in, while it's apart. Ideas and advice are welcome.

[Y-Blockhead]

You will need a minimum of a 250 watt soldering iron to solder on the brushes.

[Henry's Lady's Man]

Wow! it sounds like these were originally soldered onto the field coils BEFORE assembly of the starter. I will have to remove the field coils to do it right, I suppose.

[Y-Blockhead]

Except removing the field coils is not as easy as it sounds because the "Contact Button" for the starter switch is soldered on to the field coils also.

Look on ebay for a 250W soldering iron. I got a good used Wen 250W for $29.

[tbirdtbird]

"copper-soldered"
Is this another term for brazed? I have never heard this term.

The brushes are not brazed in. It is regular solder. All the copper quickly absorbs the heat of the iron so you need the 250 watt or larger. I use 1200 watts so I am in and out quickly.

An inexperienced hand here can easily burn up the enamel insulation on the wires.

Strongly suggest the use of heat sinks (such as alligator clips) on nearby wires and such to protect them from overheating.

If you cut anything off you will have gone backwards.....

[Henry's Lady's Man]

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Originally Posted by tbirdtbird

"copper-soldered"
Is this another term for brazed? I have never heard this term.

The brushes are not brazed in. It is regular solder. All the copper quickly absorbs the heat of the iron so you need the 250 watt or larger. I use 1200 watts so I am in and out quickly.

An inexperienced hand here can easily burn up the enamel insulation on the wires.

Strongly suggest the use of heat sinks (such as alligator clips) on nearby wires and such to protect them from overheating.

If you cut anything off you will have gone backwards.....

Ok, I AM the inexperienced hand you are referring to. I will take the advice. Think I'll seek a club member that has such an iron. I won't invest in an iron I will use just once.

[Henry's Lady's Man]

Originally Posted by Y-Blockhead

Except removing the field coils is not as easy as it sounds because the "Contact Button" for the starter switch is soldered on to the field coils also.

Look on ebay for a 250W soldering iron. I got a good used Wen 250W for $29.

Thanks. It's a good thing I didn't start to take the field coils out.

This looks like one of those situations where ya better let an experienced hand have at it.
I like to try DIY when I can, but this one bit me in the caboose.

Honestly, I just might put it back together for now and just replace the bushings. I've got to get a lender/starter back to it's owner soon. I can revisit the brushes in the future. They ARE working for now. Chuck

[Tom Wesenberg]

Lucky for you the ground brushes normally wear out faster than the two soldered to the field windings. I almost never have to replace the soldered brushes. The ground brushes wear at about twice the speed as the hard to change pair of brushes. I almost never have to replace the bushing on the brush end also. You could easily have a starter that will outlive you by just replacing the ground brushes and the drive end bushing. Slip the armature into the end plate and see how much brush you have left before the brush spring hits the brush holder. If it's about 1/8" or more then it will likely outlive most of us. After all, a well tuned Car should start within a couple revolutions, so the actual time of the starter running is very little.

When I do have to replace the brushes from the field windings I use my WEN 250 watt soldering gun. There is also a soldering tip to fit over the end of most propane torches, and this works great for heavy soldering jobs. Just be careful that the flame coming out the 4 holes of the tip are not burning something. In fact I just got one of these tip in the $10 box of tools I bought at the threshing show last weekend.

Here's a picture of the propane soldering tip and a Wen 250 soldering gun that I bought at a swap meet last summer for $1. It's a bargain just to have the spare tip for that price.

[BILL WILLIAMSON]

Most soldering problems are because of not enough HEAT! Collect a variety of sizes of irons from YARD sales, etc.
I have Chiefs' HUGE old electric iron & I've even soldered top radiator seams & filler necks with it!!! I store it in a metal pill can, with solder in the bottom, to keep the copper tip SHINY.
Bill Stick

[Henry's Lady's Man]

Originally Posted by Tom Wesenberg

Slip the armature into the end plate and see how much brush you have left before the brush spring hits the brush holder. If it's about 1/8" or more then it will likely outlive most of us. After all, a well tuned Car should start within a couple revolutions, so the actual time of the starter running is very little.

Good news; I've got enough brush left on the soldered ones. I will just put the new grounded brushes in. They must have been done before if they wear faster.

BTW, my engine starts immediately; no cranking, or maybe one turn and POP! . That's with my friend's lender/starter. My starter was barely moving. Must be the bushings. I don't have a growler to test the windings, but I did the voltmeter tests and all was ok.

Thanx to all of you for this info.