why no blowers in daily drivers?

[Fordestes]

I'll pull one off the shelf or find one on line, I picked two up a few years ago from Canada and Sweden , I was thinking about machining the side for a relief but I am always open for suggestions, they are a bolt on already for the 471, a little pricey though.
Iwas wanting to use ready made drive parts such as for a sb chev.( less machine time).
and plentiful, ellwood I see you have an austin manifold, will you post the mounting flange dimentions, I am also toying with 53 series blowers I was able to buy some good cores for aronud 10 to 40 dollars each, I think they would look at home on a 59A.
I am working on a drive snout and end plates to install bearings and better seals.
the Austin looks like what I think I need, I hope Mr. Austin is still making manifolds.
I grabbed some M-90s from the thunderbirds ,It looks like they would work good after seeing what ol Ron has set up, it may be the most cost effective way to go.

Regards,
Fordestes,

[Ol' Ron]

Water and alcohol injection has been used before wwII in race and aircraft engines, and yes It could be used in a street application. So could a shot of Nitro . I had a ride in Ed Burquest (Sp??) dRed duce coupe with a S.C.ot blower, Saw 7 lbs of boost on the gauge and the engine ran harder than any SBC I ever owned. The acceloration was fantastic. He told me that after the engine was built they had a hell of a time tuning it. Finally a guy in Mass figgered out the answer and it ran like a pussy cat, untill you wanted more. So I know it can be done

[expavr]

Originally Posted by elwood

Hey Ol Ron, just a thought, I was told you could use water injection to compensate for detonation.
I knew a guy that ran big boost on a bike and he ran water injection..
Fordestes, I sure would like to see a couple pictures of your Mitchell manifold..

Another way of controlling detonation is to run a boost referenced timing system which retards the spark advance as the boost increases. Its a less costly way of dealing with the danger of detonation. On the plus side for water injection the cooler more dense AF mass will allow you to increase the boost with an associated increase in HP. I'm looking at both options for the supercharged hemi. The best way to minimize the danger of detonation is to insure that the effective CR at operating boost pressure is designed into the engine build to start with. BDS has a chart that shows both design boost and design CR with the effective CR at design boost. Its a good starting point in designing a supercharged engine. As I've discovered the process of supercharging an engine for street use involves more than putting on some hardware and hoping for the best.

[Fordestes]

Expavar,
when this weather warms up a bit maybe this weekend , I'll get one from the warehouse and post it , that is if I can find a 5 year old to show me how, if I cant post it I will scan it to someone who can, The mitchell is a neat manifold , It does not have a place for a gen.adapter mount (not that it is necessary).
I am going to add a 1/2" T-6 plate to separate the blower from the manifold an to be able to move the blower fore and aft to fine tune the belt alignment and if the blower takes a dump it may not harm the manifold. I have a 3 groove crank pulley from a french army truck and a N.o.s war surplus wide belt 3 groove I picked up from England some years ago, I really want to run a vibration dampner as I stated earlier, I really would like to see what others are using on the crank, The 327 Chev. looks like a candidate with a little
machine work to bore out about .060 more to fit the ford and broach a 1/4" keyway in the dampner and maybe mill a keyseat in the crank to utilize the chev. keway making double keways 180 Deg. apart. I figure with the low compression heads and this corn whisky they call gasoline maybe the alcohol chill factor will aid in detonation control.
I noticed M.S.D has two types of boost timing controls I understand that the 6 BTM,is an all in one ignition box as the other unit has to use something like mabe a 6AL.
when I get ready I will do some more research into the timing controls and see what works best for me.

Fordestes,

[saltracer]

speaking of fitting another type of harmonic balancer , seems the crankshaft snout is 1.3125. Would you bore the balancer .002 over for a snug fit?

[Fordestes]

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Saltracer racer, According to my HeliOs micrometers and the readings I get from about a half dozen 49 to 53 Merc cranks the difference is as I remenber at or near .060 I considered turning the crank snout down to fit the Balancer, and the cranks I checked varied a small amount, a custom fit would be to determine the crank to be used and fit accordingly , this has always to me been the norm when mixing parts. According to my notes .060 was just an average reference point , when the actual fitting takes place I always measure twice and cut to size and hone to fit as desired.

[uncle max]

I am uncle max and I approve of this post!

Originally Posted by PeterC

Lots of good questions - I have a S.Co.T blown 59A Flathead in my stock bodied 35 Coupe.

For a higher performing flathead a blower aids in the bigger weakness of our beloved flatheads - breathing in an optimal fuel mixture under higher performance expectations - of course for reliability and performance - you don’t just plop a blower down on the intake side. As with any engine -all the aspects of the engine must be considered - i.e. each action has a potential reaction - so carburation, intake flow, valves, heads, ignition, exhaust and gearing must be considered for all to work well.

Cost is of course fairly steep for price of admission, and wear, economy and reliability are all a part of thoughtful full design, execution, maintenance and driver inputs.

At lower RPM the blower has minimal effect - as you get closer and closer to WOT the power climbs rapidly - so in a sense you can control economy with your right foot - and yes - they can they go the distance, and make it across the country and back many many times when consideration is given for all of the above.

There are many experts on this forum with far more knowledge and experience that I - so am sure will add much to your questions - perhaps oppisite of my thoughts - my comments are just my humble opinion as experienced running one on my little 3 Window Coupe.

[scooder]

Just wondering with the timing control, would as an example, using a converted chevy ignition. Say you want 10 degrees max advance when in boost, and you want say 5 degrees at idle could you not use the chevy ignition with 5 degrees max centrifugal advance. + 5 degrees idle timing. This would be your 10 degrees advance under boost conditions.
Now add a vacuum advance that gives you another 10 degrees or so for cruise condition. This vacuum advance is plumbed in below the blower. In cruise the blower manifold is in vacuum, so I'm told. This setup will allow 20 degrees total in this cruise stage.
Now, put your foot in it, blower manifold goes from vacuum to boost, this will shift the timing back to your 10 degrees for boost, as the vacuum can will also go from a vacuum signal to a boost signal
The numbers I've used here are just numbers used in example.
I know this isn't as controlled as a MSD type of retard device. But possibly a cheap way to time a blown engine ?
Just wondering out loud why this is not done. I'll never get to play with this idea, the cost is to much for me.
What say you guys?
Many thanks,
Martin.

[Fordors]

Martin, I do something similar, but not matching. I run 10° on the crank and 14° distributor for a total of 38° and I use an old, obsolete Accel vacuum advance/boost retard vacuum canister on a '57 Chevy iron distributor fired by an MSD-6 box. The Accel 730012 vacuum can gives 20° advance and 8° retard under boost, although I did adjust the length of the slot to limit vacuum advance to 15°.
A blown engine acts just as you describe, adequate throttle must be provided to see boost, if it can't get the air it cannot pack it in. My combo runs a 3.36 gear with 31" tall tires, two 600 vacuum secondary Holleys on a 15% under 6-71. Cruising at 70 MPH is 2550 RPM. Down shift to third and roll into the throttle and it's off to the races, with never a sign of detonation on pump gas. Strictly a street car built 30 years ago with the available technology at the time. An MSD 6 BTM does the same thing at more cost but also more adjustability. Many told me my system would not work but the key was the 730012.
Fordestes, I agree with your choice of a harmonic balancer but I do not see the need for even one 1/4" key especially if you will use v-belts and likely only have 5-7 pounds boost. I don't think a set-up like that will tax the strength of a single 3/16 key, but should you decide to use one or two 1/4" keys make sure the diameter of the balancer hub will accommodate them with adequate strength.

[Fordestes]

Fordors,
I agree , I thought about just broaching the chev. balancer to the flatheads 1/4"key
and leaving it at that, I somtimes get a little carried away, The engine would probably live ok without the Main bearing support plate and the scat rods.
I am a stickler for dependability, I am trying to find someone local to ex-ray the crank
or what ever they use these days for non destructive testing.
I dont like breakdowns, it is difficult to find someone to line bore these days , I have inquired around and havent found anyone here in Okla, city yet. who in okla, still line bores blocks? Do any of you fellow barners here in okla. know anyone??
Fordestes,

[PeterC]

I replied earlier in this post - just attached a more current picture of the candy

[barnnone51]

The candy is Dandy!!

[Ol' Ron]

When I think of the cost of building an engine, weather it blown or not. I don't believe in compromising. If you're going to build a mild engine, so be it. If you're going to build a blown engine, so be it. Why compromise the ignition system to something that just works? most cars spend 90% of their life in cruise and the ignition system is the most critical part of that,, requiring as much as 28-30 degrees of advance. We're stuck with old technoligy heads and combustion chambers and plug locations. This could be solved by aftermarket suppliers, but the market is too low to invest the money. MSD is probably the best bet. However the real answer is TBI/ign for the street, and should be considered as the price to pay for a well running engine in all phases of operation.

[Fourdy]

I don't drive this every day but very often.



276, C4 15.5 mpg on the highway

Fourdy

[Flathead]

+1 for the Merc Heads.

[Fordestes]

Elwood, I have an issue with my computer, If I forward the pics. of the Mitchell to you will you post them for all that are interested, also will you let me know the mounting flange for the Austin blower manifold, I am trying to determine a ready made manifold to mount a 53 series blower to a 59 engine it looks as if the manifold you have will be the right one or atleast close to what I am looking for, I have a person who says he will make one on a c.n.c but that is a lot to ask of him and will have to be done when he has spare time, that could take months.
Fordestes,

[scooder]

Fordestes, would a B&M or Roadrunner manifold not work for you? They both use those little 142-177 B&M/Weiand/Holley type blowers that are based on the 53 series ones?
Martin.

[Fordestes]

Scooder, I have looked at the many manifolds and the ones you mentioned I think are a little to low for what I am wanting, I need one a little higher from the intake surface of the block, I am taking into the consideration that the tops of the cylinder heads protrude closer to the centerline of the of the intake mounting surface and the mounting surface of the blower is about 71/2 inches wide the radiator hoses, temp senders not to mention the throttle linkage hook up may be a little too close for my liking, the Austin appears to be a little higher from the deck surface and may be a little easier to connect the throttle linkages, wiring harness , temp senders, upper hoses etc. with less inteference. Thanks anyway for your suggestion. however I need the measurements to help me decide what I want to use

Fordestes

[scooder]

Be interesting to know how wide those B&M type little blowers are, I have seen them fitted on there manifolds with the 59A type heads. I'm sure that by the time you get to the hight of the throttle linkage, the hose have already started traveling forward to the radiator, and therefore they don't interfere with the throttle linkage.
Martin.

[Fordestes]

scooder,
This is my project and as you should realize I am paying the bill , therefore I will build it to suit myself therefore I am entitled to do whatever research, design and development as I choose to achieve the results I expect, in your previouse post # 48 you stated (I will never get to play with this Idea the cost is too much) I do respect your input and I am not trying to be offensive but I am participating in the discussion with the intent to move forward and not buy a bunch of parts that will never suit my future needs, that is why I asked these particular questions, I tried to purchase the same style manifold as the one ellwood pictured from a gentleman in Canada , he advised me he no longer has it and was unable to be of assistance,I am trying to put together a more affordable blower setup and who knows it may be more affordable for you as you stated ( for you to play with). I also think aesthetics is an important thing to a lot of people as well, I have used the milled out intake methods on different engines for research and to cut costs, and it did do the job. though I was the only one that had to look at it,I myself like a lot of go and a lot of show too.
regards,
fordestes,